Do you remember those kids from elementary school that acted a bit 'gay'...? They are most likely gay now. They didn't have to go through a traumatic experience, they didn't eat a bad batch of ice cream that made them gay, they dont do it because its the new cool thing. People are born gay, people are born straight.
I don't like fish... Now maybe God put fish here for a reason, so I could eat it, but I just don't like it, so if someone has a preference towards the opposite sex, why does it have to be an identity issue?
By that logic, some people are born thieves and some people are born pedophiles. Maybe we shouldn't discriminate against them.
To love someone doesn't mean you have to agree with them. A mom and pop cake shop in AZ shouldn't have to make wedding cakes for 2 women who want to get 'married.' But they can still love the women as people.
Of course you shouldn't agree with them! The bible says its wrong and you they shouldn't have to make a wedding cake for other people who want to be happy! Now what if they get their slave to make a cake for them though? Im sure the cake shop owners have a slave as stated in being ok in Leviticus!
"And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have—from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves."
By that logic, some people are born thieves and some people are born pedophiles. Maybe we shouldn't discriminate against them.
So you're saying that homosexuality is hurting you in some way? We don't arrest kids who play with themselves (Sorry for being graphic), and we wouldn't arrest a thief who stole money from her own purse.... We only punish these crimes because they affect a different person in a way that they don't want to be affected, or take advantage of someone.
The discriminating part is not what you sell, but not selling what you sell to specific people.
This wasn't about discriminating against a person but against behavior and that is done all the time. People should be free to voluntarily enter into contracts with whomever they want.
Do you remember those kids from elementary school that acted a bit 'gay'...? They are most likely gay now. They didn't have to go through a traumatic experience, they didn't eat a bad batch of ice cream that made them gay, they dont do it because its the new cool thing. People are born gay, people are born straight.
I don't like fish... Now maybe God put fish here for a reason, so I could eat it, but I just don't like it, so if someone has a preference towards the opposite sex, why does it have to be an identity issue?
The rebuttal I once heard to that claim that people are born gay is, "You think babies come are born wanting a [penis] in their [butt]? WTF is wrong with people?
As a teenager someone told me that you chose to be gay. I asked him if he choose to be straight. He quickly said "of course not!" and yet he still was assured that anyone who is gay must have chosen it. I can't even being to understand the depths of such ignorance and fear. Seriously, WTF is wrong with people?
PS: It's funny that in TV shows and movies that if an actor plays a doctor, a pilot, a terrorist, serial killer, whatever we never once consider if they are really those things but as soon as they play a gay character we assume they are gay. I am guilty of doing this. It's funny, if a gay actor plays a straight one, like Neil Patrick Harris on How I Met Your Mother,, we aren't likely thinking, "He must really be straight if he's playing a straight guy."
Of course you shouldn't agree with them! The bible says its wrong and you they shouldn't have to make a wedding cake for other people who want to be happy! Now what if they get their slave to make a cake for them though? Im sure the cake shop owners have a slave as stated in being ok in Leviticus!
"And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have—from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves."
That's absolutely true. If you are a Jew in Palestine in B.C. years.
So you're saying that homosexuality is hurting you in some way? We don't arrest kids who play with themselves (Sorry for being graphic), and we wouldn't arrest a thief who stole money from her own purse.... We only punish these crimes because they affect a different person in a way that they don't want to be affected, or take advantage of someone.
You didn't see the 'by that logic' part, apparently. The 'born that way' thing.
If they are born that way, it must be right and good.
It actually does hurt us all. Righteousness exalts a nation.
Being gay is not against the law. Those four things are none of Rogifan's business unless they are doing it his house without his permission. If you are concerned about those issues, call 911.
But if i own a business and would prefer not to sell a cake to a gay couple that should be my right. If they don't like it they can get a cake from someone else who will happily make one for them.
That's absolutely true. If you are a Jew in Palestine in B.C. years.
And your point is true as well. If you're an american living in the US a decade ago. Problem is we are all comfortable with gay being abnormal. We used to be comfortable with slavery and we used that bible verse to feel like good Christians. How you don't see the link here is beyond me.
Lets hold a group of people down because what they are just isn't normal. Sure they are humans, and not everyone is cruel to blacks, but hell no they aren't buying cakes from the same shops I use!!
But if i own a business and would prefer not to sell a cake to a gay couple that should be my right. If they don't like it they can get a cake from someone else who will happily make one for them.
and really, why would they want to buy a cake from made by someone who doesn't like them because they are gay?
I feel sorry for the moderators that have to clean up this thread. Is there a way to just stop allowing ALL posts a specific thread?
This thread is gonna blow up and going to upset both sides of the argument. Please all, stop posting. We are just gonna upset each other. This going to get too emotion too fast, IMHO. Be civil.
You didn't see the 'by that logic' part, apparently. The 'born that way' thing.
If they are born that way, it must be right and good.
It actually does hurt us all. Righteousness exalts a nation.
I saw the 'logic' part it just had nothing to do with what I'm saying. You can't just group a bunch of 'they were born that way' scenarios and make them all the same. Pedophiles and Thieves are born that way just like Blind people and gays!
My point was, out of the 'born that way' group. Which hurt you? If gay marriage is legalized, does that mean that now you HAVE to marry a man? Or that your kids will marry the same sex? I never understood why people felt the need to decide how other people live. Is it because 'America was founded in Christianity'? (Which btw tell that to George Washington who had his own bible).
And your point is true as well. If you're an american living in the US a decade ago. Problem is we are all comfortable with gay being abnormal. We used to be comfortable with slavery and we used that bible verse to feel like good Christians. How you don't see the link here is beyond me.
Lets hold a group of people down because what they are just isn't normal. Sure they are humans, and not everyone is cruel to blacks, but hell no they aren't buying cakes from the same shops I use!!
Oh, you're absolutely right. It's call progressive revelation. God started with the Hebrews, who came out of Egypt, out of a multi-god system, and showed them the singular god "I AM." God actually let polygamy happen. He let slavery happen (which was more like the maid in a household.....they were well treated and were part of the family, not like the slavery in the American colonies.) God didn't fix everything all at once. And when God himself stepped into his creation as Jesus -- the fulfillment of all scripture -- we entered into a new chapter in God's progressive revelation.
Moses had a black wife, in addition to his Hebrew wife Miriam (look it up!)
But no where is the male/female line blurred -- past, present, or future. Homosexuality is and has always been against God's design.
We need laws that simply state that no state law or regulation could be construed as requiring any one party to enter into a contract with any other party.
Agreed. Would a photographer or wedding cake baker be forced to take on KKK members, anti-abortion protesters, or Tea Party activists if they didn't want to? Freedom allows people to make unpopular (and even rude and stupid) decisions.
Let's say this bill had been signed into law. And some restaurant chain said "we refuse to serve gay people." A) That would be about as effective as saying "we refuse to serve people carrying concealed guns" or "we refuse to serve jews." There would be a major backlash against that chain and they would either lose a lot of potential customers or back down. In other words, it would be no big deal in the long run. And we wouldn't be sacrificing freedom for political correctness.
By that logic, some people are born thieves and some people are born pedophiles. Maybe we shouldn't discriminate against them.
I suppose one could be born with the tendency to be a thief. There is definitely data to support that psychological differences begin in utero but not manifest until later on in life. This could mean your child might be have the genetic and /or chemical makeup to be a serial killer or pedophile just as much as he might the born with the makeup of being able to count and remember like Rain Man.
The problem is attributing natural variations in nature as something of a choice. If you don't think that one can have the physical makeup of one sex and the brain chemistry typically associated with the opposite sex then you need you explain why your god would create a hermaphrodite, or one with two penises, or two vaginas, or no sex organs at all.
Homosexually isn't the norm but it's certainly natural.
Comments
Nope. In a non-colloqual sense sex refers to biological differences, while gender refers to cultural or social ones.
Do you remember those kids from elementary school that acted a bit 'gay'...? They are most likely gay now. They didn't have to go through a traumatic experience, they didn't eat a bad batch of ice cream that made them gay, they dont do it because its the new cool thing. People are born gay, people are born straight.
I don't like fish... Now maybe God put fish here for a reason, so I could eat it, but I just don't like it, so if someone has a preference towards the opposite sex, why does it have to be an identity issue?
By that logic, some people are born thieves and some people are born pedophiles. Maybe we shouldn't discriminate against them.
Welcome to Europe and Finland or Spain or well Europe!!
To love someone doesn't mean you have to agree with them. A mom and pop cake shop in AZ shouldn't have to make wedding cakes for 2 women who want to get 'married.' But they can still love the women as people.
Of course you shouldn't agree with them! The bible says its wrong and you they shouldn't have to make a wedding cake for other people who want to be happy! Now what if they get their slave to make a cake for them though? Im sure the cake shop owners have a slave as stated in being ok in Leviticus!
"And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have—from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves."
By that logic, some people are born thieves and some people are born pedophiles. Maybe we shouldn't discriminate against them.
So you're saying that homosexuality is hurting you in some way? We don't arrest kids who play with themselves (Sorry for being graphic), and we wouldn't arrest a thief who stole money from her own purse.... We only punish these crimes because they affect a different person in a way that they don't want to be affected, or take advantage of someone.
The rebuttal I once heard to that claim that people are born gay is, "You think babies come are born wanting a [penis] in their [butt]? WTF is wrong with people?
As a teenager someone told me that you chose to be gay. I asked him if he choose to be straight. He quickly said "of course not!" and yet he still was assured that anyone who is gay must have chosen it. I can't even being to understand the depths of such ignorance and fear. Seriously, WTF is wrong with people?
PS: It's funny that in TV shows and movies that if an actor plays a doctor, a pilot, a terrorist, serial killer, whatever we never once consider if they are really those things but as soon as they play a gay character we assume they are gay. I am guilty of doing this. It's funny, if a gay actor plays a straight one, like Neil Patrick Harris on How I Met Your Mother,, we aren't likely thinking, "He must really be straight if he's playing a straight guy."
Of course you shouldn't agree with them! The bible says its wrong and you they shouldn't have to make a wedding cake for other people who want to be happy! Now what if they get their slave to make a cake for them though? Im sure the cake shop owners have a slave as stated in being ok in Leviticus!
"And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have—from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves."
That's absolutely true. If you are a Jew in Palestine in B.C. years.
So you're saying that homosexuality is hurting you in some way? We don't arrest kids who play with themselves (Sorry for being graphic), and we wouldn't arrest a thief who stole money from her own purse.... We only punish these crimes because they affect a different person in a way that they don't want to be affected, or take advantage of someone.
You didn't see the 'by that logic' part, apparently. The 'born that way' thing.
If they are born that way, it must be right and good.
It actually does hurt us all. Righteousness exalts a nation.
That's absolutely true. If you are a Jew in Palestine in B.C. years.
And your point is true as well. If you're an american living in the US a decade ago. Problem is we are all comfortable with gay being abnormal. We used to be comfortable with slavery and we used that bible verse to feel like good Christians. How you don't see the link here is beyond me.
Lets hold a group of people down because what they are just isn't normal. Sure they are humans, and not everyone is cruel to blacks, but hell no they aren't buying cakes from the same shops I use!!
But if i own a business and would prefer not to sell a cake to a gay couple that should be my right. If they don't like it they can get a cake from someone else who will happily make one for them.
and really, why would they want to buy a cake from made by someone who doesn't like them because they are gay?
I feel sorry for the moderators that have to clean up this thread. Is there a way to just stop allowing ALL posts a specific thread?
This thread is gonna blow up and going to upset both sides of the argument. Please all, stop posting. We are just gonna upset each other. This going to get too emotion too fast, IMHO. Be civil.
Really tired of all the gay issues ....
You didn't see the 'by that logic' part, apparently. The 'born that way' thing.
If they are born that way, it must be right and good.
It actually does hurt us all. Righteousness exalts a nation.
I saw the 'logic' part it just had nothing to do with what I'm saying. You can't just group a bunch of 'they were born that way' scenarios and make them all the same. Pedophiles and Thieves are born that way just like Blind people and gays!
My point was, out of the 'born that way' group. Which hurt you? If gay marriage is legalized, does that mean that now you HAVE to marry a man? Or that your kids will marry the same sex? I never understood why people felt the need to decide how other people live. Is it because 'America was founded in Christianity'? (Which btw tell that to George Washington who had his own bible).
And your point is true as well. If you're an american living in the US a decade ago. Problem is we are all comfortable with gay being abnormal. We used to be comfortable with slavery and we used that bible verse to feel like good Christians. How you don't see the link here is beyond me.
Lets hold a group of people down because what they are just isn't normal. Sure they are humans, and not everyone is cruel to blacks, but hell no they aren't buying cakes from the same shops I use!!
Oh, you're absolutely right. It's call progressive revelation. God started with the Hebrews, who came out of Egypt, out of a multi-god system, and showed them the singular god "I AM." God actually let polygamy happen. He let slavery happen (which was more like the maid in a household.....they were well treated and were part of the family, not like the slavery in the American colonies.) God didn't fix everything all at once. And when God himself stepped into his creation as Jesus -- the fulfillment of all scripture -- we entered into a new chapter in God's progressive revelation.
Moses had a black wife, in addition to his Hebrew wife Miriam (look it up!)
But no where is the male/female line blurred -- past, present, or future. Homosexuality is and has always been against God's design.
Really tired of all the gay issues ....
Then why are you are following this thread?
We need laws that simply state that no state law or regulation could be construed as requiring any one party to enter into a contract with any other party.
Agreed. Would a photographer or wedding cake baker be forced to take on KKK members, anti-abortion protesters, or Tea Party activists if they didn't want to? Freedom allows people to make unpopular (and even rude and stupid) decisions.
Let's say this bill had been signed into law. And some restaurant chain said "we refuse to serve gay people." A) That would be about as effective as saying "we refuse to serve people carrying concealed guns" or "we refuse to serve jews."
There would be a major backlash against that chain and they would either lose a lot of potential customers or back down. In other words, it would be no big deal in the long run. And we wouldn't be sacrificing freedom for political correctness.
I suppose one could be born with the tendency to be a thief. There is definitely data to support that psychological differences begin in utero but not manifest until later on in life. This could mean your child might be have the genetic and /or chemical makeup to be a serial killer or pedophile just as much as he might the born with the makeup of being able to count and remember like Rain Man.
The problem is attributing natural variations in nature as something of a choice. If you don't think that one can have the physical makeup of one sex and the brain chemistry typically associated with the opposite sex then you need you explain why your god would create a hermaphrodite, or one with two penises, or two vaginas, or no sex organs at all.
Homosexually isn't the norm but it's certainly natural.