Arizona governor vetoes gay discrimination bill Apple rallied against

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  • Reply 161 of 323
    reddfield wrote: »
    Hey Rogifan, you may or not be gay, but when laws like this directly effect you and/or your family, you might care more. I'm gay, so when people vote on MY EQUAL RIGHTS, I pay attention. Just because something doesn't personally effect you, doesn't mean it's not important. 
    There are going to be people who do things with which you disagree. That's a consequence of living in a free society. You want to take away the right of the business owner to decide what he/she wants to do on his or her property. That's not ok.
  • Reply 162 of 323
    There are going to be people who do things with which you disagree. That's a consequence of living in a free society. You want to take away the right of the business owner to decide what he/she wants to do on his or her property. That's not ok.

    There are going to be people who do things with which you disagree. That's a consequence of living in a free society. You want to take away the right of a human being to have pursuit of happiness as you. That's not ok.
  • Reply 163 of 323
    solipsismx wrote: »
    There are going to be people who do things with which you disagree. That's a consequence of living in a free society. You want to take away the right of a human being to have pursuit of happiness as you. That's not ok.

    It's not the governments job to protect you from getting your feelings hurt. Maybe you could make a website that lists homophobic businesses and tells people not to shop there. That's how people in a free society behave. Not go crying to the government as it seems like you would suggest.
  • Reply 164 of 323
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    It's not the governments job to protect you from getting your feelings hurt. Maybe you could make a website that lists homophobic businesses and tells people not to shop there. That's how people in a free society behave. Not go crying to the government as it seems like you would suggest.

    1) It's quite impossible for my feelings to get hurt over this civil rights issue.

    2) So are you saying that no civil rights issue in the history of the United States should ever been determined by a local, state or federal government in order to put an end to discrimination?
  • Reply 165 of 323
    solipsismx wrote: »
    1) It's quite impossible for my feelings to get hurt over this civil rights issue.

    2) So are you saying that no civil rights issue in the history of the United States should ever been determined by a local, state or federal government in order to put an end to discrimination?

    No, the government has no role in protecting discrimination. Also let me remind you that the government enforced segregation with Jim Crow laws.
  • Reply 166 of 323
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    No, the government has no role in protecting discrimination. Also let me remind you that the government enforced segregation with Jim Crow laws.


    1) I agree, the gov't should have no role in PROTECTING discrimination.

    2) You just stated they had no role in protecting discrimination which you followed up with proof of the gov't doing just that.

    3) The US, like most countries, has a sorted past but the goal to make the future better for everyone not just the people whose skin colour and sexual orientation you find most deserving.
  • Reply 167 of 323
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member

    When is Apple going to come out and stick up for my rights for a change?

     

    I am not gay, I am not transgender, I am not a minority, and I am not an illegal.

     

    I'm a white male, I'm not a liberal, and I like women, what an evil combination! I am also for legalized marijuana. Now why doesn't Apple come out in support of that, since they're obviously a very politically minded company, and they're not afraid of stating their views when they need to?

     

    Marijuana is no less important than any gay issue. I'd say that it's more important since being gay is not illegal in the USA, and gays aren't being locked up for merely being gay. Unlike marijuana, which is illegal federally, and many people are behind bars for this total non-crime. Now that sounds like a real civil rights issue. 

     

    Gays should just relax (as long as they don't live in Russia, Uganda or a number of other weird countries), because gay rights have come a long way in the US, these past few decades.

     

    I am honestly tired of hearing about gay rights, minority rights and the rights of those who don't even deserve any rights, illegal rights. I also think that hate crime laws are flawed, because they give protected status to certain groups, while denying the same to others. Everybody should be equal under the law.

     

    It's also a sad state of things when a thread like this is the busiest in a while here. That just goes to show how little is happening around Apple at the moment.

  • Reply 168 of 323
    solipsismx wrote: »
    1) I agree, the gov't should have no role in PROTECTING discrimination.

    2) You just stated they had no role in protecting discrimination which you followed up with proof of the gov't doing just that.

    3) The US, like most countries, has a sorted past but the goal to make the future better for everyone not just the people whose skin colour and sexual orientation you find most deserving.

    Actually, the government is doing a horrible job at making the future better for all of us. They are destroying the value of our money and burdening us with impossible debt. These type issues are just a distraction from the real economic discrimination that the government has created.
  • Reply 169 of 323
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    apple ][ wrote: »
    When is Apple going to come out and stick up for my rights for a change?

    I am not gay, I am not transgender, I am not a minority, and I am not an illegal.

    I'm a white male, I'm not a liberal, and I like women, what an evil combination! I am also for legalized marijuana. Now why doesn't Apple come out in support of that, since they're obviously a very politically minded company, and they're not afraid of stating their views when they need to?

    Marijuana is no less important than any gay issue. I'd say that it's more important since being gay is not illegal in the USA, and gays aren't being locked up for merely being gay. Unlike marijuana, which is illegal federally, and many people are behind bars for this total non-crime. Now that sounds like a real civil rights issue. 

    Gays should just relax (as long as they don't live in Russia, Uganda or a number of other weird countries), because gay rights have come a long way in the US, these past few decades.

    I am honestly tired of hearing about gay rights, minority rights and the rights of those who don't even deserve any rights, illegal rights. I also think that hate crime laws are flawed, because they give protected status to certain groups, while denying the same to others. Everybody should be equal under the law.

    It's also a sad state of things when a thread like this is the busiest in a while here. That just goes to show how little is happening around Apple at the moment.

    1) How is Apple against you being a white male who likes women? What civil rights are being preventing by you liking to smoke weed? Are potheads not allowed to get married in your state?

    2) Marijuana is no less important? WTF are you smoking? Oh, never mind.

    3) Lots of things have come a long way but until there are equal rights there are still a ways to go.

    4) Everybody — not every thing — should be equal under the law.

    Actually, the government is doing a horrible job at making the future better for all of us. They are destroying the value of our money and burdening us with impossible debt. These type issues are just a distraction from the real economic discrimination that the government has created.

    1) You are so right¡ The US government just bought a bunch of bitcoins and magic beans¡ Now the magic beans were from Monsanto so that actually could be worth something.

    2) All just a big distraction¡ I bet the US government coverts people to gaydism just so they lure people away from the issues of how the Obama is stealing all your gold.
  • Reply 170 of 323
    solipsismx wrote: »
    1) How is Apple against you being a white male who likes women? What civil rights are being preventing by you liking to smoke weed? Are potheads not allowed to get married in your state?

    2) Marijuana is no less important? WTF are you smoking? Oh, never mind.

    3) Lots of things have come a long way but until there are equal rights there are still a ways to go.

    4) Everybody — not every thing — should be equal under the law.

    You don't make people equal under the law by giving certain groups special privileges. Gays are being given the privilege of not being refused service. As a hetero, I can be refused service, so things are not equal under the law.
  • Reply 171 of 323
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    You don't make people equal under the law by giving certain groups special privileges. Gays are being given the privilege of not being refused service. As a hetero, I can be refused service, so things are not equal under the law.

    1) You mean that special privilege to get married to the person they love? What a bunch of takers¡

    2) You can be refused to have your marriage to a single women who is also not otherwise married acknowledged under the law in your state? Well, yeah, if she's your sister, daughter or mother, but you're taking a pretty big step there if you want to argue that "the gays" shouldn't be allowed to marry until you can marry someone in your immediate family.
  • Reply 172 of 323
    solipsismx wrote: »
    1) You mean that special privilege to get married to the person they love? What a bunch of takers¡

    2) You can be refused to have your marriage to a single women who is also not otherwise married acknowledged under the law in your state? Well, yeah, if she's your sister, daughter or mother, but you're taking a pretty big step there if you want to argue that "the gays" shouldn't be allowed to marry until you can marry someone in your immediate family.

    I don't think the government should define marriage at all. People should be able to do whatever they want and call it whatever they want.
  • Reply 173 of 323
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    I don't think the government should define marriage at all. People should be able to do whatever they want and call it whatever they want.

    I agree with part of that and mentioned it pages ago. I think that marriage should only be defined and recognized by one's individual customs, but the government still needs to be aware of pairbonding if there are offspring so genetic accountability can be made.

    As for people being able to do whatever they want your terms are not sound as stated. Do you think you should be able to build and set off your own nuclear weapon? I would hope not.
  • Reply 174 of 323
    Hey MStone, why are Panamanians so hateful and ignorant? Is it their general lack of education, or their willingness to make comments about people and things they have zero experience with firsthand?

    In reality, that was rhetorical, I don't really care what you think.
  • Reply 175 of 323
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frugality View Post

     

    We need laws that allow business owners to have values.  Even if some don't like them.




    You seem to have 'values' and 'bigotry' confused.  Having glanced at some of your other posts, that would seem to be fairly typical.

  • Reply 176 of 323
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member

    In this thread: Straight white men explain why discrimination is OK.

  • Reply 177 of 323
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    It's not the governments job to protect you from getting your feelings hurt. Maybe you could make a website that lists homophobic businesses and tells people not to shop there. That's how people in a free society behave. Not go crying to the government as it seems like you would suggest.
    It seems like the people who went "crying to the government" in this case were the bigots in the AZ Senate.

    I think in a perfect, reasonable world I agree with you, discrimination should sort itself out over time. The arc is always towards progress, right?

    However, that can take a long time, and if discrimination is so widespread that a gay couple in AZ can't find any professional services that will take them as customers, well that's unconscionable. They could move out of state, right, but then that just reinforces Arizona as a fortress of bogotry, which is good for no one.

    I don't think laws curtailing individuals freedoms to be bigots are a great solution, but if there's an endemic problem with discrimination then it might be the only practical way to get the ball rolling towards progress.
  • Reply 178 of 323

    Sometimes I'm happy not to live in the USA. The tone and theme of this discussion reassures me of that. In Denmark it'd be a much less heated discussion. And all your bible quotes....you can always pick a paragraph in that enormous book to make your statement look valuable. And anyway what do the words of the bible matter to someone doesn't believe in it?

    People should just try harder to be kinder to each other, and be smarter. 

  • Reply 179 of 323
    marvfoxmarvfox Posts: 2,275member

    What values to discriminate against gays and transgender people.These people deserve a voice to be heard to.

  • Reply 180 of 323
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by namdarmd View Post

     

    The 'right' to turn people away for equal service is basically segregation. We've passed that.  No, you cannot turn people away.  That is not democracy.

     

    The right to choose whose services you want to use, that is democracy.  If I know a certain business does not treat its employees well, or contributes to KKK, it is my choice not to go to that business.  But if I were African-American and showed up to a clothing store owned by a member of KKK, the store owner cannot turn me away.  I hope you are smart enough to understand the difference.  But don't take my word on it. Ask any friends of yours who are lawyers and they will explain to you perhaps better than I can. 


     

    Segregation was state-enforced. Jim Crow was state-mandated discrimination. A free society which forces people to do stuff is oxymoronic. That's like saying we're a free society, that's why we won't allow anybody to say anything mean to anyone else. Do understand that freedom means tolerating things you don't like?

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