1) It's about time, but it'll still probably be 6-10 weeks before this update is out of Beta.
2) I hope Apple releases their own 4K display this year and I hope it's $2,999 or less.
At least they're making progress. Some of us thoughts Apple was going to be a bitch about this and not support it at all.
It will certainly be under $2999. As more companies are adapting 4K resolutions this year, the cheaper the panels get. Dell is already offering an IPS 4K for about 1200$ and Dell often source the same panels that Apple does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
This change alone is enough to make me upgrade my 2012 MBP Retina to a 2013. Imagine: a 2013 MBP in clamshell mode powering a Dell UP2414Q at 1920x1080 Retina, with an external Apple keyboard. Like a nMP for people on a budget.
Totally. I'm often on my '12 rMBP because I can't stand the current 27" Cinema. The text is just so blurry when you switch from a retina panel. I'm trying to save money right now to grab the '14 rMBP along with 4K Cinema if Apple chooses to release it this year. If not, I'll hold off until they do in '15. There's no way that Apple won't release an update until '16.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Maybe a future Retina iMac and Retina Cinema Display is in the cards. And if not, it's still a great way to make use of high density 2160p displays on Mac Pros.
Oh, it's coming. Apple have every reasons to adapt Retina across all of their lineups. They're already rumored to kill the cMBPs this year. I expect them to adapt retina in the MBAs next year assuming Sharp keeps innovating with their IGZO panels. I hear they're already close to the second generation series for iGZO panels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
Works as advertised.
With what monitor? Is it as sharp as rMBP's panel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer
Considering how crappy HDMI works with my Sony home theater setup, I can only expect that Apple's new displays accept only TB. It's unbelievable to see HDMI's feed gaps whenever changing video sources...not to mention the absence of support for closed captioning, of course.
No doubt, Apple is doing to adapt the TB2 on the next Cinema.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
Dell has 3 4K monitors, a 24", a 28" and a 32". Only the 28" is a cheap TN panel, both the 24 and 32 are IPS. And only the 32" is horrendously expensive, the 24" (UP2414Q) is only US$1,149. And it has "PremierColor" = 99% AbodeRGB and 100% sRGB. This is the sweet spot IMHO, because it crams 4K resolution in to 24" which is more Retina-like than e.g. having it on a 32" monitor.
Yea, that's why I believe Cinema is very closed to be released soon for $1200 at least. Apple/Dell tend to source the same panels with the scalers being customized by themselves.
Totally. I'm often on my '12 rMBP because I can't stand the current 27" Cinema. The text is just so blurry when you switch from a retina panel. I'm trying to save money right now to grab the '14 rMBP along with 4K Cinema if Apple chooses to release it this year. If not, I'll hold off until they do in '15. There's no way that Apple won't release an update until '16.
I agree, it's really hard to go back. The only thing is, I'm getting a bit sick of being hunched over my laptop, and want an external monitor that is Retina so I can sit up straight a bit more. The only thing is whether to wait for a Cinema or go for a Dell. This software update could indeed signal that a Cinema is imminent. And the other advantage of the Apple display is that it will have Ethernet and probably a nice set of speakers built in.
I’d prefer a half-theater size, rollable LCD (or QD display; I’m not picky) on the cheap. Comes to your house in a big ol’ tube, you pull ‘er out, lay ‘er flat, and hang ‘er on the wall. Tired of tiny screens for viewing content.
The Sharp 4K display is showing only 4 options under "scaled" unlike some other other 4k displays that are showing 5, similar to the Macbookpro retina.
Additonally the desired resolution, one notch larger type than "best for display" looks like garbage...
Why not enable this for other screens as well? I realize that many displays do not have the needed pixels, but I have a Mac mini hooked up to a 1080p TV, but I have to run it at 720p so the text is visible. I have long been waiting for them to let me run at 1080, but scale everything up to allow the text to be the same apparent size as if it was running at 720. The text would be much crisper if rendered for the screen as opposed to letting the TV do the scaling. This is otherwise known as resolution independence and Apple almost did it with the retina macs, but arbitrarily limited it to a subset of their computers.
Why not enable this for other screens as well? I realize that many displays do not have the needed pixels, but I have a Mac mini hooked up to a 1080p TV, but I have to run it at 720p so the text is visible. I have long been waiting for them to let me run at 1080, but scale everything up to allow the text to be the same apparent size as if it was running at 720. The text would be much crisper if rendered for the screen as opposed to letting the TV do the scaling. This is otherwise known as resolution independence and Apple almost did it with the retina macs, but arbitrarily limited it to a subset of their computers.
I thought you could change the output resolution in Sys Prefs.
I thought you could change the output resolution in Sys Prefs.
Yes, you can change the output resolution in the sys prefs, but that scales everything on the screen and you end up running the TV in a non-native resolution so everything is blurry. On Retina Macs, the size of the system elements (i.e., text, system bar, and everything else) is scaled independently of the resolution. On non-retina Mac, the resolution and the size of the system elements are scaled together. So, you can either run at full resolution with small elements or large elements with non-native (blurry) resolution, neither of which are ideal for hooking a Mac up to a TV.
Yes, you can change the output resolution in the sys prefs, but that scales everything on the screen and you end up running the TV in a non-native resolution so everything is blurry. On Retina Macs, the size of the system elements (i.e., text, system bar, and everything else) is scaled independently of the resolution. On non-retina Mac, the resolution and the size of the system elements are scaled together. So, you can either run at full resolution with small elements or large elements with non-native (blurry) resolution, neither of which are ideal for hooking a Mac up to a TV.
But isn't that done in a very limited scope because Apple did a doubling of the pixel density so the scaling can happen in a controlled way? And isn't that effect greatly diminished when you don't use the 2x scaling?
But isn't that done in a very limited scope because Apple did a doubling of the pixel density so the scaling can happen in a controlled way? And isn't that effect greatly diminished when you don't use the 2x scaling?
The 2x scaling only occurs when using the "Best for retina display". If you choose "Scaled" and "Larger text" or "More space", it is no longer scaled as 2x, which are supported options. When selecting "More space", it runs at an equivalent 1920x1200, but there are actually 2880x1800 physical pixels. When running at 1920x1200 on the retina, the text still looks clearer than it does when running on a non-retina display because there are still more pixels used to render the screen. Turns out that the ratio of 1920:2880 is identical to 720:1080; as such, running a 1080 screen with the same scaling, but simulating a 720 screen could use the exact same method that Apple is employing with their Retina macs and would generate the same visual benefit, but they have decided not to support that feature. This would be tremendously helpful to me.
Unfortunately latest reports about running 4K@60Hz on Retina MacBook Pro have to be considered misinformed. Twitter user @KhaosT, from where the rumors are originating, has declared that his report was mistaken. While there is an option to enable HiDPI Mode, there is no 60Hz MST Operation available in 10.9.3 as of yet.
I can verify that for my Dell UP 2414Q - 30Hz operation only.
Things might be different on the new Mac Pro. Unfortunately I have no chance to try yet.
Is this a step on the path toward the OS user interface where each element will be independent and have its own size/resolution setting?
I'm concerned about my aging parents and in-laws who purchased the largest iMacs, not realizing that the increased resolution actually meant everything was smaller and finer, not larger and easier to read. Being able to independently control the type size of the menu bar text across the top of the screen and various OS elements - not just folder labels, for instance - is what I'm hoping for from Apple, especially as they enter the 4K display era.
Unfortunately latest reports about running 4K@60Hz on Retina MacBook Pro have to be considered misinformed. Twitter user @KhaosT, from where the rumors are originating, has declared that his report was mistaken. While there is an option to enable HiDPI Mode, there is no 60Hz MST Operation available in 10.9.3 as of yet.
I can verify that for my Dell UP 2414Q - 30Hz operation only.
Things might be different on the new Mac Pro. Unfortunately I have no chance to try yet.
That's a disappointment. I wonder if it's a lack of MST support in Nvidia drivers?
Unfortunately latest reports about running 4K@60Hz on Retina MacBook Pro have to be considered misinformed. Twitter user @KhaosT, from where the rumors are originating, has declared that his report was mistaken. While there is an option to enable HiDPI Mode, there is no 60Hz MST Operation available in 10.9.3 as of yet.
I can verify that for my Dell UP 2414Q - 30Hz operation only.
Things might be different on the new Mac Pro. Unfortunately I have no chance to try yet.
I got all excited and was planning to pull the trigger on the UP2414Q until I heard about this issue. Are you sure you are running at 30Hz or maybe it just *feels* like 30Hz? Other users are reporting that the monitor says it's running at 60Hz but that the frame rate feels sluggish. I think you have to enable DP 1.2 to get 60Hz as well - on your Dell monitor select Menu > Display Settings > DisplayPort 1.2 > Enable. It is possibly disabled by default.
Maybe you can try playing around with this and reporting back your findings??? Would be much appreciated!
I guess we will just have to wait to see if this gets resolved in the next 10.9.3 beta releases, and keep an eye on what other users are reporting.
This sub-issue hasn't been reported on other monitors that Apple has whitelisted in the 10.9.3 beta, so maybe it just requires some driver fixes before final release. Fingers crossed as the UP2414Q hits the 4k retina sweet spot, both price and spec wise. Any larger of a monitor and you will get large text at the 2x scaling mode.
Dell UP 2414Q stuck at 30Hz - Display Port 1.2 Setting Activated
Thanks for that. Have you tried unchecking Automatic Graphics Switching in Energy Saver System Preferences? That should force it to use the Nvidia card instead of the Intel one. What about closing the lid on the laptop so that the external monitor is the only screen?
Comments
1) It's about time, but it'll still probably be 6-10 weeks before this update is out of Beta.
2) I hope Apple releases their own 4K display this year and I hope it's $2,999 or less.
At least they're making progress. Some of us thoughts Apple was going to be a bitch about this and not support it at all.
It will certainly be under $2999. As more companies are adapting 4K resolutions this year, the cheaper the panels get. Dell is already offering an IPS 4K for about 1200$ and Dell often source the same panels that Apple does.
This change alone is enough to make me upgrade my 2012 MBP Retina to a 2013. Imagine: a 2013 MBP in clamshell mode powering a Dell UP2414Q at 1920x1080 Retina, with an external Apple keyboard. Like a nMP for people on a budget.
Totally. I'm often on my '12 rMBP because I can't stand the current 27" Cinema. The text is just so blurry when you switch from a retina panel. I'm trying to save money right now to grab the '14 rMBP along with 4K Cinema if Apple chooses to release it this year. If not, I'll hold off until they do in '15. There's no way that Apple won't release an update until '16.
Maybe a future Retina iMac and Retina Cinema Display is in the cards. And if not, it's still a great way to make use of high density 2160p displays on Mac Pros.
Oh, it's coming. Apple have every reasons to adapt Retina across all of their lineups. They're already rumored to kill the cMBPs this year. I expect them to adapt retina in the MBAs next year assuming Sharp keeps innovating with their IGZO panels. I hear they're already close to the second generation series for iGZO panels.
Works as advertised.
With what monitor? Is it as sharp as rMBP's panel.
Considering how crappy HDMI works with my Sony home theater setup, I can only expect that Apple's new displays accept only TB. It's unbelievable to see HDMI's feed gaps whenever changing video sources...not to mention the absence of support for closed captioning, of course.
No doubt, Apple is doing to adapt the TB2 on the next Cinema.
Dell has 3 4K monitors, a 24", a 28" and a 32". Only the 28" is a cheap TN panel, both the 24 and 32 are IPS. And only the 32" is horrendously expensive, the 24" (UP2414Q) is only US$1,149. And it has "PremierColor" = 99% AbodeRGB and 100% sRGB. This is the sweet spot IMHO, because it crams 4K resolution in to 24" which is more Retina-like than e.g. having it on a 32" monitor.
Yea, that's why I believe Cinema is very closed to be released soon for $1200 at least. Apple/Dell tend to source the same panels with the scalers being customized by themselves.
Totally. I'm often on my '12 rMBP because I can't stand the current 27" Cinema. The text is just so blurry when you switch from a retina panel. I'm trying to save money right now to grab the '14 rMBP along with 4K Cinema if Apple chooses to release it this year. If not, I'll hold off until they do in '15. There's no way that Apple won't release an update until '16.
I agree, it's really hard to go back. The only thing is, I'm getting a bit sick of being hunched over my laptop, and want an external monitor that is Retina so I can sit up straight a bit more. The only thing is whether to wait for a Cinema or go for a Dell. This software update could indeed signal that a Cinema is imminent. And the other advantage of the Apple display is that it will have Ethernet and probably a nice set of speakers built in.
I’d prefer a half-theater size, rollable LCD (or QD display; I’m not picky) on the cheap. Comes to your house in a big ol’ tube, you pull ‘er out, lay ‘er flat, and hang ‘er on the wall. Tired of tiny screens for viewing content.
Additonally the desired resolution, one notch larger type than "best for display" looks like garbage...
I thought you could change the output resolution in Sys Prefs.
I thought you could change the output resolution in Sys Prefs.
But isn't that done in a very limited scope because Apple did a doubling of the pixel density so the scaling can happen in a controlled way? And isn't that effect greatly diminished when you don't use the 2x scaling?
But isn't that done in a very limited scope because Apple did a doubling of the pixel density so the scaling can happen in a controlled way? And isn't that effect greatly diminished when you don't use the 2x scaling?
The 2x scaling only occurs when using the "Best for retina display". If you choose "Scaled" and "Larger text" or "More space", it is no longer scaled as 2x, which are supported options. When selecting "More space", it runs at an equivalent 1920x1200, but there are actually 2880x1800 physical pixels. When running at 1920x1200 on the retina, the text still looks clearer than it does when running on a non-retina display because there are still more pixels used to render the screen. Turns out that the ratio of 1920:2880 is identical to 720:1080; as such, running a 1080 screen with the same scaling, but simulating a 720 screen could use the exact same method that Apple is employing with their Retina macs and would generate the same visual benefit, but they have decided not to support that feature. This would be tremendously helpful to me.
Unfortunately latest reports about running 4K@60Hz on Retina MacBook Pro have to be considered misinformed. Twitter user @KhaosT, from where the rumors are originating, has declared that his report was mistaken. While there is an option to enable HiDPI Mode, there is no 60Hz MST Operation available in 10.9.3 as of yet.
I can verify that for my Dell UP 2414Q - 30Hz operation only.
Things might be different on the new Mac Pro. Unfortunately I have no chance to try yet.
Apple should release a new 4K 24-inch display, with built-in Thunderbolt 2 and USB 3 hubs, as well as SDXC card reader.
You mean 27”.
Is this a step on the path toward the OS user interface where each element will be independent and have its own size/resolution setting?
I'm concerned about my aging parents and in-laws who purchased the largest iMacs, not realizing that the increased resolution actually meant everything was smaller and finer, not larger and easier to read. Being able to independently control the type size of the menu bar text across the top of the screen and various OS elements - not just folder labels, for instance - is what I'm hoping for from Apple, especially as they enter the 4K display era.
Unfortunately latest reports about running 4K@60Hz on Retina MacBook Pro have to be considered misinformed. Twitter user @KhaosT, from where the rumors are originating, has declared that his report was mistaken. While there is an option to enable HiDPI Mode, there is no 60Hz MST Operation available in 10.9.3 as of yet.
I can verify that for my Dell UP 2414Q - 30Hz operation only.
Things might be different on the new Mac Pro. Unfortunately I have no chance to try yet.
That's a disappointment. I wonder if it's a lack of MST support in Nvidia drivers?
Unfortunately latest reports about running 4K@60Hz on Retina MacBook Pro have to be considered misinformed. Twitter user @KhaosT, from where the rumors are originating, has declared that his report was mistaken. While there is an option to enable HiDPI Mode, there is no 60Hz MST Operation available in 10.9.3 as of yet.
I can verify that for my Dell UP 2414Q - 30Hz operation only.
Things might be different on the new Mac Pro. Unfortunately I have no chance to try yet.
I got all excited and was planning to pull the trigger on the UP2414Q until I heard about this issue. Are you sure you are running at 30Hz or maybe it just *feels* like 30Hz? Other users are reporting that the monitor says it's running at 60Hz but that the frame rate feels sluggish. I think you have to enable DP 1.2 to get 60Hz as well - on your Dell monitor select Menu > Display Settings > DisplayPort 1.2 > Enable. It is possibly disabled by default.
Maybe you can try playing around with this and reporting back your findings??? Would be much appreciated!
That's a disappointment. I wonder if it's a lack of MST support in Nvidia drivers?
Apparently the monitor says it's running at 60Hz but it is not smooth for some.
This sub-issue hasn't been reported on other monitors that Apple has whitelisted in the 10.9.3 beta, so maybe it just requires some driver fixes before final release. Fingers crossed as the UP2414Q hits the 4k retina sweet spot, both price and spec wise. Any larger of a monitor and you will get large text at the 2x scaling mode.
Dell UP 2414Q stuck at 30Hz - Display Port 1.2 Setting Activated
Dell UP 2414Q stuck at 30Hz - Display Port 1.2 Setting Activated
Thanks for that. Have you tried unchecking Automatic Graphics Switching in Energy Saver System Preferences? That should force it to use the Nvidia card instead of the Intel one. What about closing the lid on the laptop so that the external monitor is the only screen?