Apple's new trackpad patent replaces 'click button' with force sensors, adds tactile feedback

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 35
    hentaiboyhentaiboy Posts: 1,252member

    Never mind.

  • Reply 22 of 35
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,331member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blurpbleepbloop View Post



    I see this a bound for iPhone & iPad instead up the laptops and trackpads (though they might get it, too) But I think Apple has wanted this kind of pressure sensitivity for the iDevices for awhile now.

     

    It would have to be a substantially different implementation to work with touchscreens.  The screen assembly does not possess the rigidity required for discrete force sensor measurements.

  • Reply 23 of 35
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    mistercow wrote: »
    You can interchange Apple with Android/Windows users and vice versa and your statement would be just as true.

    Even assuming this is true (and it's not), there's at least one subtle difference. Apple users are on Apple forums. You, a Windows user, are on an Apple forum telling Apple users that everyone behaves the same, invalidating your own comment. To validate it, you'd have to run along to a nice Windows forum and tell all the nice Windows users how Microsoft's latest development is so awesome.
    they "hope Apple starts innovating again soon" because--and this part is unspoken--their competitors are fresh out of ideas and the entire industry needs shaking up again. I think what they really want is for Apple to come up with the right idea then wait for cheaper Android copies.

    It is weird how they never demand that Microsoft, Samsung and Google innovate more. They either have to be assuming that Microsoft, Samsung and Google are innovating enough or they aren't capable of it. If it was the former, it wouldn't really matter what Apple was doing, they'd all be happy and merry and not bitter at all.
  • Reply 24 of 35
    mistercow wrote: »
    You can interchange Apple with Android/Windows users and vice versa and your statement would be just as true.

    I don't agree because one of the things Ive observed is that pro-Google forum members like to hold Apple to a higher standard of expectations than they hold any other company--Microsoft and Google in particular, but the same goes for any competitor (Samsung, Qualcomm, etc). Apple is "doomed" because they failed to blow away the competition with some kind of earth-shattering new product or as Tim Cook puts it, "introduce a new product category." Steve Jobs, in his manner of counting, considers Apple to have only done the "revolutionary new product" 4 times (successfully) in the last 35 years. I don't know why the meme out in the tech world is that "Apple is stale" because they haven't done anything revolutionary since the 2010 iPad intro. There's no regular schedule for these things. That'd be like saying, "Gee, Stephen Hawking is getting stale because he hasn't revolutionized physics since 1974!" That's not how this works, and there is no such expectation placed on Microsoft, Samsung, or Google's shoulders.
  • Reply 25 of 35
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,408member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RedGeminiPA View Post

     

    Next up: switch the Magic Trackpad to Bluetooth 4.0. There's no reason the batteries shouldn't last at least 1-2 months under normal use. I'm lucky to see 2 weeks on average. 


     

    Do you use rechargeable batteries? You'll get wayyy more time out of those than standard alkaline (not talking about recharging/reuse — each charge)

  • Reply 26 of 35
    Not interested in this one.
  • Reply 27 of 35
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RedGeminiPA View Post

     

    The biggest issue I have is scrolling in Launchpad. My MacBook Pro's trackpad is buttery smooth. However, when I use the Magic Trackpad, the scrolling is horrid, maybe only swiping half a section per swipe. I know it's not an issue with my MBP, since I had the same issue when I still had my late 2012 Mac mini. 


    Must be defective.  I use the Magic Trackpad with my iMac and MacBook Pro (when hooked to an external monitor) on Mavericks and it works flawlessly and the battery lasts in the 3 month range (usually use Duracell Advanced). Just checked and I have no issue in LaunchPad either (I actually like and use Launchpad for certain apps).  Given the skipping and terrible batter life you are having, it really seems like you have a defective unit.

  • Reply 28 of 35
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member

    Personally, I would miss the feedback provided from an actual *click*.  But, i'd have to try it out to see how i'd really feel about it.  I just don't see what's the big deal about eliminating the click feature.  Just to save a millimeter or two in the thickness?  Yes i know, it's a moving part and those can fail, but i've had issues with taping and scrolling (not enough to justify a Genius Bar appointment, but consistent enough).  It will sense my lightest tap, but sometimes scrolling will just cancel all of a sudden.  could be from an accidental tap with another finger.  That's about as much as I can decipher.  Anyway, Click/drag, click/hold.  I would miss that.  Surely Apple has already thought of this.

  • Reply 29 of 35
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    antkm1 wrote: »
    Personally, I would miss the feedback provided from an actual *click*.

    The current trackpad has the problem that it doesn't click at all if you press the top 1/5th of the pad because that's where it's hinged. This new trackpad should allow the click from anywhere.

    Force feedback is a sensation that the trackpad is repelling your finger and the harder you press, the stronger the repulsion pushing against your nerve endings:

    http://gizmodo.com/5962754/when-you-sit-down-does-your-ass-actually-touch-the-chair


    [VIDEO]


    So given that it's just a nerve sensation, they would try to figure out a way to replicate that. Other hardware manufacturers have done this using vibration and users have said that it feels exactly like pressing a button - they'd change the vibration depending on how hard the press is to replicate the degree of repulsion. To measure it, they can build a simulation finger with sensors to detect the pressure variation as it pushes against the trackpad and at the point it clicks and then try to replicate that measured effect with some sort of vibration. An audible click just needs a speaker to reproduce the sound.

    They can do the same with the keyboard and just adjust the simulated repulsion.

    An air hockey table creates a cushion of air to repel the object on the surface. I doubt that they could push out compressed air through tiny holes like that but it's an example of using something other than the solid object interaction to create a repulsion effect.
  • Reply 30 of 35
    marvfoxmarvfox Posts: 2,275member

    Get a life and stop knocking Apple products!

  • Reply 31 of 35
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    The current trackpad has the problem that it doesn't click at all if you press the top 1/5th of the pad because that's where it's hinged. This new trackpad should allow the click from anywhere.

     

    my 3 year old ? trackpad clicks anywhere you less it. No trouble at all. It's not hinged at the top, I can easily push the top edge down corner to corner.

  • Reply 32 of 35
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    my 3 year old ? trackpad clicks anywhere you less it. No trouble at all. It's not hinged at the top, I can easily push the top edge down corner to corner.

    Maybe it loosens up over time but it's definitely hinged at the top, they patented the design:

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/05/14/apple-wins-utility-patent-for-macbooks-trackpad-design

    That was one of the reasons for the patent this article is about:

    "There are a few issues with the existing design, including the increasing pressure required to activate the switch when a user's finger moves further toward the hinged edge."
  • Reply 33 of 35

    ok then.  I can push down and click with ease anywhere - I honestly can't tell the difference.

  • Reply 34 of 35
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    To me
    Marvin wrote: »
    The current trackpad has the problem that it doesn't click at all if you press the top 1/5th of the pad because that's where it's hinged. This new trackpad should allow the click from anywhere.

    Force feedback is a sensation that the trackpad is repelling your finger and the harder you press, the stronger the repulsion pushing against your nerve endings:

    http://gizmodo.com/5962754/when-you-sit-down-does-your-ass-actually-touch-the-chair


    [VIDEO]


    So given that it's just a nerve sensation, they would try to figure out a way to replicate that. Other hardware manufacturers have done this using vibration and users have said that it feels exactly like pressing a button - they'd change the vibration depending on how hard the press is to replicate the degree of repulsion. To measure it, they can build a simulation finger with sensors to detect the pressure variation as it pushes against the trackpad and at the point it clicks and then try to replicate that measured effect with some sort of vibration. An audible click just needs a speaker to reproduce the sound.

    They can do the same with the keyboard and just adjust the simulated repulsion.

    An air hockey table creates a cushion of air to repel the object on the surface. I doubt that they could push out compressed air through tiny holes like that but it's an example of using something other than the solid object interaction to create a repulsion effect.
    , this sounds like a complex solution to something that's really not that big of a deal to most. Sure the clickable surface area is reduced, but after a short while, I hardly realize the issue. I use click/hold and click/drag with two hands so it's really a neglagable experience to me. I can see there is a problem with the single hinge click. But I've used vibration click displays on smartphones and it's just not as obvious and discernible. And there seems (by this article) that there is no other technical reason for this to be implemented other than just "improving" the trackpad. So why bother. Most people don't notice or care about the short-comings of, what is already, the best trackpad experience out there.
  • Reply 35 of 35
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    antkm1 wrote: »
    I've used vibration click displays on smartphones and it's just not as obvious and discernible.

    They wouldn't make one like that unless they could make it better. People who are happy with tap-to-click wouldn't mind it as they don't use the physical click anyway. The patent describes mounting the pad on 4 pressure sensors at the corners instead of the hinge. This not only evens the pressure over the pad but it makes it analog rather than digital and still allows physical movement. So they could do things that use pressure sensitivity.
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