Didn't we see Apple patents within the last couple years that allow for fan-less heat dispersal via the keyboard? I don't think it was piezoelectric but rather some passive concept.
I hope that's not it, the keyboard on the MBP already gets uncomfortably hot when gaming.
I hope that's not it, the keyboard on the MBP already gets uncomfortably hot when gaming.
I think I was conflating the "solid-state cooling" with another patent regarding a waterproof membrane under the keyboard that still allowed for air to flow through it.
I hope that's not it, the keyboard on the MBP already gets uncomfortably hot when gaming.
Indeed. I thought the MacBooks already incorporate a cooling system that draws air into the keyboard...or at least that was part of the airflow system for some generations of MacBooks if I recall correctly. Because of this, I don't use the silicone keyboard covers on my MacBook.
The key is portability, and now it is possible with the new Intel chips. Apple should make a light (400 to 600 g) Mac, as small as possible and whih whatever form factor (clamshell, slider or tablet). Great for Keynote and PowerPoint presentations. The Mac in your pocket. Always.
iPhones and iPads ARM SOCs have the fastest GPUs around with power to spare. (Imagination Technologies Power VR)
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">This device will most certainly not use Intel Chips.</span>
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">It will use ARM CPU and Power VR GPU and Flash for storage.</span>
The keyboard and trackpad will be context sensitive on a sapphire glass slab. It will run iOS with a modern laptop UI that borrows heavily from the iPad Air iOS 7 paradigm. It will be 64 bit and super efficient and iCloud integrated. It will run iOS applications that exist today.
Lol, that's great. What if the reason they are changing from a click trackpad to a tap one, is that the base is *so* thin, there is just not enough height for a button that depresses? Would that be genius enough.
It makes sense they would consolidate to an in between screen size of 12" rather than develop two separate Retina models at the low end of the Mac lineup. So it's to be a 12" MBA with Retina display and an intelligent cluster of slim, efficient, nearly silent, and reliable piezoelectric fans for component cooling.
And something different about the trackpad (I haven't got that quite sorted yet).
Usability aside, the mechanical trackpad on the current MacBooks just feels dated. And knowing Apple that's enough reason for them to put some serious effort into sorting that out.
Umm...tap to click? Seriously who uses the press-down-anywhere to click? They should have done away with the button a while ago. Tap + Gestures is all I need.
That sure would be a useless machine for those of us who use BootCamp!
Obviously it wouldn't be a machine for you! Because boot camp and virtual machines are so important to Apples Mac lineup I don't think such a machine would be marketed as a "Mac". I can see it becoming something different that is neither a Mac nor an iOS device. The main reason Apple would do this is to be able to market a high quality machine 2-300 dollars cheaper than current laptops.
In any event useless is a state of mind, given the right OS support I'd jump on such a machine. The reality is I would either be using mainstream software likely to be quickly running on the machine or I will write my own. Besides the only VMs I run right now are to support Linux, I could see Linux running in a VM on an ARM based machine nicely. That won't happen overnight though.
I would never buy a computer with no ability to efficiently run the code that currently works on my MBA (all x86 software).
I understand your point here but many of us have mixed needs. I have plenty of hardware for my legacy x86 needs. For my more general needs I don't really need that x86 capability. More so I would suspect that very very few of Apples mainstream customers give two hoots over running x86 code. Frankly this is no different than the initial fears that cropped up with iPad, if the machine is compelling software will come.
Frankly iPad is why I believe Apple could be working on an expanded performance ARM based device that isn't actually a tablet and more like a laptop. Done right the machine could immediately support all of the existing iPad apps out there while offering programmers the APIs to further leverage the machines architecture. To really fly though the machine has to offer much of the flexibility and access Mac OS does. That isn't as big a problem as some might imagine though.
In the new Mac Pro they didn't have separate heat sinks and fans for each chip, but a central heat sink that everything just pressed against. With something as thin as the Macbook Air, I wonder if they would use the case as the heatsink, and have the CPU literally pressed up against it?
Bingo!
I was about to offer up something similar but you beat me to it. With Apples CNC'ed chassis process they can build heat sinking right into the laptops shell. This might require rearrangement of components, in this case the bottom shell becoming the heat sink / machined aluminum piece. The PC board would then be flipped so that the hot components are in contact with the aluminum via a thermal transfer media.
The problem here is thickness. To lower thermal resistance you need thick cross sections of aluminum. AIRs are currently rather thin so maybe we end up with more taper. I could actually see Apple adding short fins on the back edge as flat surface aren't the best for radiating heat. I can even see a black finish on the aluminum.
Given all of that I still think they will be forced to either ARM or Broadwell as you would likely need to limit power to about ten watts. Haswell based processors in this power range would be worst than ARM performance wise.
Maybe Apple could do a hybrid OS that boots in iOS, but when a user taps/clicks an app it will either run as an iOS app or "port" (in so many words) over to an anything-from-minimal-to-full-power OSX desktop, depending on the resources needed.
Without a fan? My current laptop doesnt have a fan at all and runs totally silent. Thats down to it using an ARM processor and and SSD.
I'm not sure why so many are arguing against the possibility of a fan less device, it is already a done deal as you point out. The only real question is this, does Apple go ARM or Intel?
Well the other question would be does the machine remain a Mac or end up running another OS. Apple has a lot of incentive to add something like a laptop to the iOS line. If that machine has all the restrictions of the current iOS devices then it won't be for me. However if it runs iPad apps along with more traditional UNIX like accessibility then I'd be interested. In my mind this is very doable.
I'm not sure why so many are arguing against the possibility of a fan less device, it is already a done deal as you point out. The only real question is this, does Apple go ARM or Intel?
Well the other question would be does the machine remain a Mac or end up running another OS. Apple has a lot of incentive to add something like a laptop to the iOS line. If that machine has all the restrictions of the current iOS devices then it won't be for me. However if it runs iPad apps along with more traditional UNIX like accessibility then I'd be interested. In my mind this is very doable.
I hope this doesnt get me into any bother or a load of nasty comments...my laptop is an HP 11 Chromebook. So yes it is already doable. ARM or Intel depends on battery life and performance I guess.
Well the other question would be does the machine remain a Mac or end up running another OS. Apple has a lot of incentive to add something like a laptop to the iOS line. If that machine has all the restrictions of the current iOS devices then it won't be for me. However if it runs iPad apps along with more traditional UNIX like accessibility then I'd be interested. In my mind this is very doable.
That's an interesting question. My feeling is that Apple would want to continue the Mac brand even if they used ARM over Intel. I don't think they would add a laptop to the iOS line because that means adding a mouse pointer and a many drivers for peripherals that iOS doesn't have. Plus, I believe Tim when he says they aren't going to do what MS did with the Surface by trying to create a "no compromise" device that is nothing but a compromise. The simplest and best solution of the two is to make OS X work on ARM and update their IDE to allow for compiling Mac apps for ARM. That said, even simpler would be to continue using Intel chips even though they can save a lot of money with an ARM-based solution, but they could have saved a lot by not using the $250+ Intel chips in every Mac they've sold.
I hope this doesnt get me into any bother or a load of nasty comments...my laptop is an HP 11 Chromebook. So yes it is already doable. ARM or Intel depends on battery life and performance I guess.
In what way does that make it doable? Chrome OS is a very difference beast from iOS.
I'm not a tech expert. I just that seeing how efficient iOS is, I just thought it would be possible to run it on a similar platform.
OS X is also very efficient but it's also a desktop OS which means it has a lot more stuff in it since people expect a mouse pointer, expect to be able to plug in printers, scanners, and all sorts of additional items. I suppose Apple could create something in-between that is close to Chrome OS that has a mouse pointer but missing a lot of features that make it a robust desktop OS. I like Chrome OS but I don't think it's something Apple wants to focus on for their customers.
Comments
Didn't we see Apple patents within the last couple years that allow for fan-less heat dispersal via the keyboard? I don't think it was piezoelectric but rather some passive concept.
I hope that's not it, the keyboard on the MBP already gets uncomfortably hot when gaming.
I think I was conflating the "solid-state cooling" with another patent regarding a waterproof membrane under the keyboard that still allowed for air to flow through it.
I hope that's not it, the keyboard on the MBP already gets uncomfortably hot when gaming.
Indeed. I thought the MacBooks already incorporate a cooling system that draws air into the keyboard...or at least that was part of the airflow system for some generations of MacBooks if I recall correctly. Because of this, I don't use the silicone keyboard covers on my MacBook.
Sir Jony Ive is a genius. Not like those guys in the store, but a real one. The Air is already a great product but this sounds even better,
The key is portability, and now it is possible with the new Intel chips. Apple should make a light (400 to 600 g) Mac, as small as possible and whih whatever form factor (clamshell, slider or tablet). Great for Keynote and PowerPoint presentations. The Mac in your pocket. Always.
So certain and yet so certainly wrong.
I can't see macs ever moving away from Intel. It was a genius transition.
Intel and Macs were made for each other and that is the bottom line.
Not like those guys in the store, but a real one.
Lol, that's great. What if the reason they are changing from a click trackpad to a tap one, is that the base is *so* thin, there is just not enough height for a button that depresses? Would that be genius enough.
I'd buy that. Me and a couple million others.
Usability aside, the mechanical trackpad on the current MacBooks just feels dated. And knowing Apple that's enough reason for them to put some serious effort into sorting that out.
This means, the mouse is back.
Also, that quote feature is horrible on iPhone. I guess no user of Ai uses iPhone... ,
In any event useless is a state of mind, given the right OS support I'd jump on such a machine. The reality is I would either be using mainstream software likely to be quickly running on the machine or I will write my own. Besides the only VMs I run right now are to support Linux, I could see Linux running in a VM on an ARM based machine nicely. That won't happen overnight though.
I understand your point here but many of us have mixed needs. I have plenty of hardware for my legacy x86 needs. For my more general needs I don't really need that x86 capability. More so I would suspect that very very few of Apples mainstream customers give two hoots over running x86 code. Frankly this is no different than the initial fears that cropped up with iPad, if the machine is compelling software will come.
Frankly iPad is why I believe Apple could be working on an expanded performance ARM based device that isn't actually a tablet and more like a laptop. Done right the machine could immediately support all of the existing iPad apps out there while offering programmers the APIs to further leverage the machines architecture. To really fly though the machine has to offer much of the flexibility and access Mac OS does. That isn't as big a problem as some might imagine though.
Without a fan? My current laptop doesnt have a fan at all and runs totally silent. Thats down to it using an ARM processor and and SSD.
Bingo!
I was about to offer up something similar but you beat me to it. With Apples CNC'ed chassis process they can build heat sinking right into the laptops shell. This might require rearrangement of components, in this case the bottom shell becoming the heat sink / machined aluminum piece. The PC board would then be flipped so that the hot components are in contact with the aluminum via a thermal transfer media.
The problem here is thickness. To lower thermal resistance you need thick cross sections of aluminum. AIRs are currently rather thin so maybe we end up with more taper. I could actually see Apple adding short fins on the back edge as flat surface aren't the best for radiating heat. I can even see a black finish on the aluminum.
Given all of that I still think they will be forced to either ARM or Broadwell as you would likely need to limit power to about ten watts. Haswell based processors in this power range would be worst than ARM performance wise.
Maybe Apple could do a hybrid OS that boots in iOS, but when a user taps/clicks an app it will either run as an iOS app or "port" (in so many words) over to an anything-from-minimal-to-full-power OSX desktop, depending on the resources needed.
Ahem.
I'm not sure why so many are arguing against the possibility of a fan less device, it is already a done deal as you point out. The only real question is this, does Apple go ARM or Intel?
Well the other question would be does the machine remain a Mac or end up running another OS. Apple has a lot of incentive to add something like a laptop to the iOS line. If that machine has all the restrictions of the current iOS devices then it won't be for me. However if it runs iPad apps along with more traditional UNIX like accessibility then I'd be interested. In my mind this is very doable.
I'm not sure why so many are arguing against the possibility of a fan less device, it is already a done deal as you point out. The only real question is this, does Apple go ARM or Intel?
Well the other question would be does the machine remain a Mac or end up running another OS. Apple has a lot of incentive to add something like a laptop to the iOS line. If that machine has all the restrictions of the current iOS devices then it won't be for me. However if it runs iPad apps along with more traditional UNIX like accessibility then I'd be interested. In my mind this is very doable.
I hope this doesnt get me into any bother or a load of nasty comments...my laptop is an HP 11 Chromebook. So yes it is already doable. ARM or Intel depends on battery life and performance I guess.
Welcome to the internet.
That's an interesting question. My feeling is that Apple would want to continue the Mac brand even if they used ARM over Intel. I don't think they would add a laptop to the iOS line because that means adding a mouse pointer and a many drivers for peripherals that iOS doesn't have. Plus, I believe Tim when he says they aren't going to do what MS did with the Surface by trying to create a "no compromise" device that is nothing but a compromise. The simplest and best solution of the two is to make OS X work on ARM and update their IDE to allow for compiling Mac apps for ARM. That said, even simpler would be to continue using Intel chips even though they can save a lot of money with an ARM-based solution, but they could have saved a lot by not using the $250+ Intel chips in every Mac they've sold.
In what way does that make it doable? Chrome OS is a very difference beast from iOS.
In what way does that make it doable? Chrome OS is a very difference beast from iOS.
I'm not a tech expert. I just that seeing how efficient iOS is, I just thought it would be possible to run it on a similar platform.
OS X is also very efficient but it's also a desktop OS which means it has a lot more stuff in it since people expect a mouse pointer, expect to be able to plug in printers, scanners, and all sorts of additional items. I suppose Apple could create something in-between that is close to Chrome OS that has a mouse pointer but missing a lot of features that make it a robust desktop OS. I like Chrome OS but I don't think it's something Apple wants to focus on for their customers.