Apple's iPhone 5c 'failure flop' outsold Blackberry, Windows Phone and every Android flagship in Q4

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  • Reply 241 of 299
    Could it be that the reason for the dire state of journalistic enterprise these days is because journalists tech & business do not understand the connection between output and profit? I.E they seem to confuse the two and deem quantity = success even if no profit is earned. In consequence when the real world fails to conform to this model they disparage such success because it does not conform to their world paradigm.
  • Reply 242 of 299
    GS3 took 55 days to hit 10 million, so it's not even close to approaching Apple sales for a launch quarter. So let's throw the GS3 to the side since it's not even relevant. Neither are the GS2 or original S.

    GS4 shipped 10 million into the CHANNEL in 26 days. They shipped another 10 million in the next 41 days. Pretty big drop considering it took 50% longer to get the second 10 million.

    Samsung never announced when they hit 30 million, however they did announce 40 million on Oct 24th. So they moved the first 20 million in a little over 2 months, and then took another 4 months to ship the next 20 million. That's a huge drop in sales. Considering Samsung only announced channel sales and not real sales it's tough to compare. Based on Samsung's numbers (and the rapid drop), there's NO WAY Samsung could have shipped 30 million GS4 phones in 3 months. More likely they probably shipped 25 million phones. Impressive, but still nothing like what Apple does.

    Apple's closest quarter to coincide with the GS4 launch was Q3 2013, which ran from April to June. So just over 2 months of the GS4 launch quarter overlapped with Apples Q3. Apple SOLD 31.2 million iPhones in this quarter, while competing with a newly launched (and much hyped) GS4 and also just months before the next iPhone is going to be announced.

    Sorry, bro, to have to refute your claims with actual numbers.

    Now do you want to compare GS4 sales in the same quarter when the iPhone 5S/5C launched, and see how truly pathetic they were?

    So are you counting total iPhone sales in each period or current model vs current Galaxy? Sounds like your counting total iPhone sales per quarter. Not apples to Apple comparison.

    I was speaking of specific model to model comparison in what typically is first quarter for the new Galaxy to 3rd (of the cycle) for the current iPhone. And to clarify, I'm talking global numbers for each.
  • Reply 243 of 299
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,685member
    So are you counting total iPhone sales in each period or current model vs current Galaxy? Sounds like your counting total iPhone sales per quarter. Not apples to Apple comparison.

    I was speaking of specific model to model comparison in what typically is first quarter for the new Galaxy to 3rd (of the cycle) for the current iPhone. And to clarify, I'm talking global numbers for each.

    Good point but both the 5S and 5C are high end phones by the standards of the rest if the industry.
  • Reply 244 of 299
    <div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/168871/apples-iphone-5c-failure-flop-outsold-blackberry-windows-phone-and-every-android-flagship-in-q4/200#post_2497503" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Jtschultz93</strong> <a href="/t/168871/apples-iphone-5c-failure-flop-outsold-blackberry-windows-phone-and-every-android-flagship-in-q4/200#post_2497503"><img alt="View Post" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /><br />For the record, this article is based entirely on "analyst's numbers", which this forum generally discredits. Daily. No one outside of Apple has sales numbers for the 5c.. iDiot</div></div><p> </p><p> </p>
    So are you counting total iPhone sales in each period or current model vs current Galaxy? Sounds like your counting total iPhone sales per quarter. Not apples to Apple comparison.

    I was speaking of specific model to model comparison in what typically is first quarter for the new Galaxy to 3rd (of the cycle) for the current iPhone. And to clarify, I'm talking global numbers for each.

    Yes I counted total iPhones since Apple doesn't break down numbers. But Samsung only provides channel shipments so nobody knows their REAL sales either. Pretty sure their real sales are lower than channel shipments, we just don't know how much lower.

    However, you stated Samsung matched Apple the last two years, which is 100% false. The GS3 (last model) isn't even close to Apple sales, and the GS4 is the only Samsung phone that "might" have matched iPhone sales. And for a flagship with billions in promotions to possibly catch an older iPhone is not that impressive.

    And as I mentioned (and you chose to ignore) shall we compare an Apple launch quarter to a Samsung flagship that's halfway through its life?

    Samsung sold 200 million Galaxy S variants since the launch of the first S. Over the exact same timeframe Apple sold 430 million iPhones. It's not even close.
  • Reply 245 of 299
    <div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/168871/apples-iphone-5c-failure-flop-outsold-blackberry-windows-phone-and-every-android-flagship-in-q4/200#post_2497503" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Jtschultz93</strong> <a href="/t/168871/apples-iphone-5c-failure-flop-outsold-blackberry-windows-phone-and-every-android-flagship-in-q4/200#post_2497503"><img alt="View Post" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /><br />For the record, this article is based entirely on "analyst's numbers", which this forum generally discredits. Daily. No one outside of Apple has sales numbers for the 5c.. iDiot</div></div><p> </p><p> </p>
    Yes I counted total iPhones since Apple doesn't break down numbers. But Samsung only provides channel shipments so nobody knows their REAL sales either. Pretty sure their real sales are lower than channel shipments, we just don't know how much lower.

    However, you stated Samsung matched Apple the last two years, which is 100% false. The GS3 (last model) isn't even close to Apple sales, and the GS4 is the only Samsung phone that "might" have matched iPhone sales. And for a flagship with billions in promotions to possibly catch an older iPhone is not that impressive.

    And as I mentioned (and you chose to ignore) shall we compare an Apple launch quarter to a Samsung flagship that's halfway through its life?

    Samsung sold 200 million Galaxy S variants since the launch of the first S. Over the exact same timeframe Apple sold 430 million iPhones. It's not even close.

    Eric, I'm not Apple hating or Samsung loving. I understand that the iPhone is the overall best selling smartphone. My point is simply that it's not particularly convincing to me that an iPhone(5c) that launched last quarter,a repackaged old model even, outselling the 4th quarter (since release) of another phone does not equal success. Besides the fact that on the spreadsheet that DED attached only showed the 5c outperforming the S4 for one month.

    Like I said in an earlier post, whether or not the 5c was a success will be determined this fall when either the line continues or not. Personally, I'd rather Apple continue making the 5s without putting a plastic back on it.
  • Reply 246 of 299
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Like I said in an earlier post, whether or not the 5c was a success will be determined this fall when either the line continues or not. Personally, I'd rather Apple continue making the 5s without putting a plastic back on it.

    So the iPhone 5 was a failure? And you'll call the iPhone 5S a failure if get repackaged and branded as the 6C?
  • Reply 247 of 299
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

    the iPhone 5S a failure if get repackaged and branded as the 6C?

     

    You mean 5SC. 6C makes no sense. It doesn’t have an A8.

     

    EDIT: I’m tellin’ ya; I am now the undisputed master of this naming convention. :p

  • Reply 248 of 299
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Emes View Post

     



    As well as people in Italy and 23 other countries


    well then, it's just them

     

    ?north 'til you smell - it east 'til you step in it...

  • Reply 249 of 299
    sudonymsudonym Posts: 233member

     
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post



    Sales for the launch quarter of the new Galaxy will certainly outpace the same quarter sales of the 5s. So...Lies. No Galaxy has EVER outsold an iPhone in their launch quarter. 



    I doesn't matter.  Apple doesn't care about marketshare.  Apple cares about profitshare, and there is no doubt that Apple is winning.

  • Reply 250 of 299
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,922member
    GrangerFX wrote: »
    How well would it have done against Android phones if it had sold for $399?

    How well would it have done if free?!
  • Reply 251 of 299
    frood wrote: »
    No.  Their epectations sets their price.  If you feel their expectations are unreasonably high, you are saying Apple is valued unreasonably high.  At its peak it was valued at near the GDP of Switzerland.

    Take the passions of phone companies out of it.  You and I both own hot dog stands and sell the same product.  People love my insanely delicious hot dogs, and I sell a ton of them, but I keep everything I do secret.  You sell a pretty mean hot dog too.

    Analysts are asked to value our respective hot dog companies.  They predict I'm going to sell 1,000,000 and value me at $1,000,000 (just to keep it simple).  They predict you are going to sell 100,000 and value you at $100,000.   Neither of us has actually sold a hot dog in this quarter yet, but people would be willing to pay much more for my company because I'm expected to sell a lot more than you.

    The quarter actually happens and we post our numbers.  You sold 200,000 hot dogs.  I sold 500,000 (a record amount for me!).  Guess what?  People like my product more than yours, I sold way more than twice as many hot dogs as you did, and I am doing better business than you are.

    So that means my stock is going to soar, right?  Buzzzzzz.... Wrong.  My stock is going to plummet, and yours is going to soar.   But but but.... record sales!!!!!  Doesn't matter.  Sold WAY more than the competition so obviously my customers love me and will be back!  Doesn't matter.  I was valued at a company that was supposed to sell 1,000,000 hot dogs and I "only" sold 500,000.  I'm not doomed.  I'm not a failure.  People still like my product better than yours because they buy more.  I'm just not worth the $1,000,000 that I would be if I had sold 1,000,000 hot dogs.  You on the other hand, sold way fewer than I did, and your stock is soaring.  It should be.  You were valued at $100,000 based on expectations and you far exceeded them.  I'm still worth a lot more than you are :p  My shareholder are now much poorer though :(

    My shareholders and fans can cry a river that my hot dogs are better than anyone else's and that I sell more than anyone else.  They are absolutely right that the analysts had it all wrong.  But when they bought my shares thinking I was worth 1,000,000- the analysts had set that unreasonable expectation and they bought in to it.  I was unable to deliver- I was really only worth $500,000.  They can then cry that 1,000,000 was a totally unreasonable number and blame analysts for setting expectations so high- and they would be absolutely right.  I never should have been valued at $1,000,000 in the first place because that was based on their unrealistic expectations.

        Of course you'll also get the ones that say.  He sold record numbers and way more than anyone else, but his stock tanked, and that other guy sold *way* less and his stock is soaring!!! WTF!!!!  Clear sign of market manipulation!!!!!

    Would you at least agree that if Apple consistently sells more phones at higher profit margins, they should be worth more than if they sell fewer phones at lower margins?

    There are some analysts who do set lower expectations for Apple.  But since they expect Apple to sell less of their products, they also lower their valuation and price targets for Apple.  It's usually the fans that decry analysts for setting unreasonably high targets for Apple that are the same ones calling the analysts that give Apple a lower price target based on more reasonable expectations a bunch of idiots.

    The best part is we're now 'done' right?  I sold 500,000... you sold 200,000 so everyone has their answer and we can be 'correctly valued' easily now right?  Its the start of a new quarter and we *know* how many we just sold and what our numbers are on the spot of the moment.  What we don't know is how many we are going to sell this next quarter.   Analysts have to come up with their best guess, again (that guess being more accurately defined as the 'net present value of all future *expected* earnings), and if people value their insights and invest accordingly, the price will again move to levels based on those analysts expectations.   Rinse.  Lather. Repeat.  If you don't believe the analysts high valuation of any company because you think there is no way that company can meet their expected targets... you are saying that the company should have a lower valuation because you believe they are going to sell less product.

    A heap of words to say that Apple is very undervalued. I agree.
  • Reply 252 of 299
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    k2kw wrote: »
    A combination of production issues leading to differentiating the high end of iPhones and iPads  (I think next year the iPad with get the touchId)

    I think if they have the components and the cost isn't too high they will want to put them in every new device they can. I think they would have wanted it in last year's Retina iPad Mini and iPad Air but they couldn't do it.
  • Reply 253 of 299
    willy05 wrote: »
    Nice to see a balanced article. We traded in a 4S and got a 5s for about $150 net last year. This year we'll trade in a 5 to finally get a large screen 6. The 4s gets refurbished and resold. Advised a non-techie friend to replace a 4 with a 5c for less than the cost of replacing the battery. Anyone I know who switched to android from Apple comes back. My big gripes were the screen size and memory scam. If Apple wants to look forward they'll include a memory slot in the 6. Their strategy now gives them multiple price points and a product life of 5 to 7 years. Not bad. I was skeptical of the watch thing, but if "Healthgrades" is visionary, I'm in. I'm holding my Apple shares. Might buy a few more on dips.

    I'm interested to see that you appear to have lost your regal status whilst writing your post. May I ask which country you were King of?
  • Reply 254 of 299
    atlappleatlapple Posts: 496member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    So the iPhone 5 was a failure? And you'll call the iPhone 5S a failure if get repackaged and branded as the 6C?

    Most in the US are not looking to by last years phone from Apple. My 18 year old daughter wouldn't be caught dead with the "cheaper" iPhone, even worse one with plastic on the back...:). If I remember correctly the 5c was a less expensive option for countries that aren't big on contracts. In the US I would say most simply take a 2 year contract which makes the extra 100.00 for the 5s not really even something to think about. 

     

    With the recycle program most can get their phone for next to nothing. If we get a 6c this fall then we know Apple considered the 5c a success, if not we know they didn't. 

  • Reply 255 of 299
    macchelsea wrote: »
    Last Christmas I was in London for a trip and I saw more people using iPhone 5c than any other iPhone model.

    Last Christmas, I gave you my heart...
  • Reply 256 of 299
    Nasty! Where did that come from? :no:
    You?

    Possibly Flaneur though. The name fits the localizion of the Three Musketeers... and I like his eloquent comments... :smokey:

    Funny you should say that. There are several here that could qualify, but Flaneur did spring to mind early on; he's written some biting comments recently. Good man.
  • Reply 257 of 299
    dunksdunks Posts: 1,254member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



    Without even citing sales figures anymore, Reed and Ciaccia have taken to calling iPhone 5c a "flop," as if saying something outrageous over and over automatically makes it factual. 
     


     

    Sentences like this let me know I'm reading a DED piece.

  • Reply 258 of 299
    patpatpatpatpatpat Posts: 628member
    sudonym wrote: »
    I doesn't matter.  Apple doesn't care about marketshare.  Apple cares about profitshare, and there is no doubt that Apple is winning.
    Ridiculous! More market share equals more profit, of course they care.
  • Reply 259 of 299
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    patpatpat wrote: »
    Ridiculous! More market share equals more profit, of course they care.

    1) That poster is one of you but he's being sarcastic which is funny because you don't even realize it.

    2) So if Apple dropped their prices in half and were able to get double the revenuer you think they would then get twice as much profit? Even with Apple's command of a solid profit margin that would still put them in the red for every sale.

    3) Apple does not care about marketshare at the expense of losing profits.
  • Reply 260 of 299
    patpatpatpatpatpat Posts: 628member
    macchelsea wrote: »
    Last Christmas I was in London for a trip and I saw more people using iPhone 5c than any other iPhone model.
    Like 1 person using 5c and zero using other models?
    Anecdotal is funny isn't it.
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