A stupid comment. Look there are far more iPads sold per quarter than Macs. The ratio is between 3-7 to 1 depending on the quarter ( last Q was 26 million to 4 million). So most iPad users are windows users, often at home but sometimes in the office. Since Microsoft is a software not a hardware company and since this could sell in the millions this could be a win for them and Apple. It might even stop some migration to Macs. The sacrifice on that for Apple will be offset by the 30% they are getting and the increased iPad sales.
MS != Windows.
MS currently has to main cash cows: Windows and Office. Electing to give 30% of subscription revenues to Apple that happen via the platform (iOS) that's growing in popularity (contrast with the recent consistent decline in PC shipments worldwide) is an indicator that their business model has been affected.
As for MS being a software company rather than a hardware company, this is yet again another point where we can see that they have been affected. They were. Now they are (in their own words) transitioning to being a devices and services business. I suspect it's because they've seen how Apple's integrated/ecosystem approach has upset their hardware OEMs. Also, following Mavericks free release MS cut Windows upgrade prices. These are all just signs that the more-or-less self-contained hegemony they once enjoyed has changed.
As for it being a stupid comment it was in 2 parts. The second was simply my expression of interest in watching how they will continue to respond to the changing consumer tech landscape. The first was a quote of someone who (while I don't agree with everything Deidu says) is one of the sharpest analysts out there. He's been wrong occasionally, but his posts always reflect careful thought and research.
Honestly, I think it would be silly that MS would ever just outright fail and close the doors. They will evolve, but when it finishes whatever changes it will go through as it adapts I think it will have shed enough of what it once was that you could safely say that the essence of the MS business as it was from '84 to '04 will no longer be. Another good article along these lines: http://www.asymco.com/2012/07/04/the-building-and-dismantling-of-the-windows-advantage/
As for it being a win, I think you're right. Apple will probably pick up some more iPad sales for corporations and business types. MS will probably pick up some more Office 365 subscriptions from which they'll get the lion's share of the profits. I even think it's the right thing for MS to do (much better to skate to where the puck is than to simply stand still).
Nevertheless most new customers downloading this for the first time would use the IAP subscription model.
I'm not so sure. Most new iPad Office users will be existing subscribers, based on enterprise usage.
Basically, Apple is now an official Office 365 reseller, well at least for Word, Excel and Powerpoint. I wonder how long before Access and Outlook become available...
Incidentally it's worth noting that I don't think Deidu is saying Ballmer's successor is a fool, nor that he'll be the one to kill MS. I think he's saying that's how people will perceive it.
Personally his assessment of Ballmer's tenure seems sound to me.
By stupid comment I was taking about the Asymco quote not you - although he wasn't talking about being doomed in this particular context. Asymco - normally very good - seems to believe that MS are doomed regardless of the CEO. In any case the quote was a few months back.
Office may well become microsofts biggest money earner particularly if the sub model takes off. It's near guaranteed income every year.
EDIT: we crossed posts there. You might be right that Deidu means the perception would be that this CEO "doomed" MS. I think this is a gutsy move.
I really hate subscription models. If its something you are using daily for work, and/or your work is paying for it, so be it. Guess I don't fit that model.
Apple is now the king of hardware AND OS' evidently shown in this article. Apple scraping away 30% for in app purchasing for office is kind of a sweet revenge whether intended or not. If you zoom out of the big picture Microsoft is now scrounging at the feet of Apple to just stay relevant nowadays.
Apple is now the king of hardware AND OS' evidently shown in this article. Apple scraping away 30% for in app purchasing for office is kind of a sweet revenge whether intended or not. If you zoom out of the big picture Microsoft is now scrounging at the feet of Apple to just stay relevant nowadays.
Yep. But you wouldn't really know that from the "Apple is going downhill" tone of all tech blogs, comments, online and offline media outlets, etc. Apple has NEVER been in as strong a position as they are today, in any respect. Yet, as usual, up is down.
Nevertheless most new customers downloading this for the first time would use the IAP subscription model.
As for the cost to apple of hosting it - about the same as any digital bytes of the same size. It's probably much smaller than a HD movie.
How many people wake up one day and decide to buy an office suite just to check it out? Most purchases of Office would probably be planned business decisions, in which case downloading the app would be the last step, not the first step.
It was confirmed on Thursday that Apple will garner its stipulated 30 percent share of Microsoft Office 365 subscriptions purchased from the new Office for iPad app,...
In a statement to Re/code, Apple confirmed it will take the usual 30 percent cut of all Office 365 subscriptions purchased from any Office for iPad app.
Why do people care about this? Seem like inside baseball that only tech journalists and maybe some Wall Street analysts would be interested in.
It impacts the stock significantly. WSJ and others expect Office for iOS to be a big cost leader for Microsoft. Having 30% of that lead go [as it should] to Apple like any other 3rd party developer means money in Apple's pocket.
This may seem harsh but it's not because some of the advanced features like live wrapping of text around images in Word for iPad come from Apple's advanced text engine.
That's exactly right. There is a lot of stuff app writers don't write these days, they just link to libraries, and a lot of those are in the OS. Probably more than 30% of the code that's actually running when you use Word is Apple's.
MS currently has two main cash cows: Windows and Office. Electing to give 30% of subscription revenues to Apple that happen via the platform (iOS) that's growing in popularity (contrast with the recent consistent decline in PC shipments worldwide) is an indicator that their business model has been affected.
FYI: Another indication is that they actually have THREE main cash cows - the third is Server - which I believe is now the biggest.
And it's a case of not only its growth, but strategically importantly, the stalling to declining revenues in Office and Windows. Which has been fairly dramatic since mobile computing just took off. So MS really doesn't have a lot of choice about whether to go for the successful mobile platforms.
And will get some IT uptake in the BYOD segment of the market - plus a lot of users. Maybe me when I finally get a new iPad this fall. Word's a necessary evil in my life, what can I say, and already paying the freight for having it on three machines - so this one won't even cost extra. (Something I haven't noticed any one else point out, btw.)
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/174575/apple-confirmed-to-take-30-cut-of-microsoft-office-365-subscriptions-purchased-in-office-for-ipad-apps#post_2504063" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>AppleSauce007</strong> <a href="/t/174575/apple-confirmed-to-take-30-cut-of-microsoft-office-365-subscriptions-purchased-in-office-for-ipad-apps#post_2504063"><img alt="View Post" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /><br />This may seem harsh but it's not because some of the advanced features like live wrapping of text around images in Word for iPad come from Apple's advanced text engine.</div></div><p>That's exactly right. There is a lot of stuff app writers don't write these days, they just link to libraries, and a lot of those are in the OS. Probably more than 30% of the code that's actually running when you use Word is Apple's.</p>
Why should users have to buy Office360 account only on apple appstore?
They don't. You can purchase your subscription from anywhere. *IF* you choose to purchase your subscription through Apple's app store, Apple will get a 30% cut. So the question is more if there is a MFN-like pricing clause or not. Otherwise MS could just jack the price up on the App store by 30% to let Apple users pay the extra Apple fee or have sales lowering the price when purchased through MS. Apple is usually too smart for that though.
FYI: Another indication is that they actually have THREE main cash cows - the third is Server - which I believe is now the biggest.
And it's a case of not only its growth, but strategically importantly, the stalling to declining revenues in Office and Windows. Which has been fairly dramatic since mobile computing just took off. So MS really doesn't have a lot of choice about whether to go for the successful mobile platforms.
After Amelio got tossed from Apple an early culture change was getting rid of the notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft had to lose. It sounds like Microsoft might be discovering the same truth, post-Ballmer.
All of this makes the Surface even more pointless.
No it doesn't, because the Surface is still a much more productive tablet than the iPad, mainly for the following reasons -
1. Viewing two apps side by side.
2. Multi-user account profiles, especially useful if you are sharing devices with other users.
3. Full USB 3.0 port for simple connectivity to flash drives, non-wireless printers, external hard drives, smartphones, etc.
4. Micro SD card for additional storage (up to 128 GB).
5. Access to the desktop environment, which when docked to an external monitor, mouse and keyboard, turns the device into a desktop PC. Even if it's the ARM version, having a "windowed" environment makes it extremely productive as a desktop machine, especially since you can extend the desktop over two screens, rather than just mirror to single external monitor.
6. Access to the full file system.
7. Live Tiles (particularly the use of secondary live tiles, or live in-app short-cuts if you prefer) allows you to configure your start screen for improved efficiency and productivity in ways that aren't possible on the iPad.
That said, Surface is just one type of device. Personally, I have a preference for the Surface Pro 2 or the Dell Venue Pro 11 or the HP Omni 10.
No it doesn't, because the Surface is still a much more productive tablet than the iPad, mainly for the following reasons -
1. Viewing two apps side by side.
2. Multi-user account profiles, especially useful if you are sharing devices with other users.
3. Full USB 3.0 port for simple connectivity to flash drives, non-wireless printers, external hard drives, smartphones, etc.
4. Micro SD card for additional storage (up to 128 GB).
5. Access to the desktop environment, which when docked to an external monitor, mouse and keyboard, turns the device into a desktop PC. Even if it's the ARM version, having a "windowed" environment makes it extremely productive as a desktop machine, especially since you can extend the desktop over two screens, rather than just mirror to single external monitor.
6. Access to the full file system.
7. Live Tiles (particularly the use of secondary live tiles, or live in-app short-cuts if you prefer) allows you to configure your start screen for improved efficiency and productivity in ways that aren't possible on the iPad.
That said, Surface is just one type of device. Personally, I have a preference for the Surface Pro 2 or the Dell Venue Pro 11 or the HP Omni 10.
why don't you admit it, as MS did : this battle is lost.
why don't you admit it, as MS did : this battle is lost.
Because there's nothing to admit. It's not my battle. I actually have both an iPad and a Surface. To claim that the Surface is pointless means that you don't understand the differences in capability between the two devices. The Surface IS a better tablet than the iPad in terms of productivity, for the reasons I mentioned above.
Comments
A stupid comment. Look there are far more iPads sold per quarter than Macs. The ratio is between 3-7 to 1 depending on the quarter ( last Q was 26 million to 4 million). So most iPad users are windows users, often at home but sometimes in the office. Since Microsoft is a software not a hardware company and since this could sell in the millions this could be a win for them and Apple. It might even stop some migration to Macs. The sacrifice on that for Apple will be offset by the 30% they are getting and the increased iPad sales.
MS != Windows.
MS currently has to main cash cows: Windows and Office. Electing to give 30% of subscription revenues to Apple that happen via the platform (iOS) that's growing in popularity (contrast with the recent consistent decline in PC shipments worldwide) is an indicator that their business model has been affected.
As for MS being a software company rather than a hardware company, this is yet again another point where we can see that they have been affected. They were. Now they are (in their own words) transitioning to being a devices and services business. I suspect it's because they've seen how Apple's integrated/ecosystem approach has upset their hardware OEMs. Also, following Mavericks free release MS cut Windows upgrade prices. These are all just signs that the more-or-less self-contained hegemony they once enjoyed has changed.
As for it being a stupid comment it was in 2 parts. The second was simply my expression of interest in watching how they will continue to respond to the changing consumer tech landscape. The first was a quote of someone who (while I don't agree with everything Deidu says) is one of the sharpest analysts out there. He's been wrong occasionally, but his posts always reflect careful thought and research.
Honestly, I think it would be silly that MS would ever just outright fail and close the doors. They will evolve, but when it finishes whatever changes it will go through as it adapts I think it will have shed enough of what it once was that you could safely say that the essence of the MS business as it was from '84 to '04 will no longer be. Another good article along these lines: http://www.asymco.com/2012/07/04/the-building-and-dismantling-of-the-windows-advantage/
As for it being a win, I think you're right. Apple will probably pick up some more iPad sales for corporations and business types. MS will probably pick up some more Office 365 subscriptions from which they'll get the lion's share of the profits. I even think it's the right thing for MS to do (much better to skate to where the puck is than to simply stand still).
Nevertheless most new customers downloading this for the first time would use the IAP subscription model.
I'm not so sure. Most new iPad Office users will be existing subscribers, based on enterprise usage.
Basically, Apple is now an official Office 365 reseller, well at least for Word, Excel and Powerpoint. I wonder how long before Access and Outlook become available...
A stupid comment.
Incidentally it's worth noting that I don't think Deidu is saying Ballmer's successor is a fool, nor that he'll be the one to kill MS. I think he's saying that's how people will perceive it.
Personally his assessment of Ballmer's tenure seems sound to me.
Office may well become microsofts biggest money earner particularly if the sub model takes off. It's near guaranteed income every year.
EDIT: we crossed posts there. You might be right that Deidu means the perception would be that this CEO "doomed" MS. I think this is a gutsy move.
Apple is now the king of hardware AND OS' evidently shown in this article. Apple scraping away 30% for in app purchasing for office is kind of a sweet revenge whether intended or not. If you zoom out of the big picture Microsoft is now scrounging at the feet of Apple to just stay relevant nowadays.
Yep. But you wouldn't really know that from the "Apple is going downhill" tone of all tech blogs, comments, online and offline media outlets, etc. Apple has NEVER been in as strong a position as they are today, in any respect. Yet, as usual, up is down.
Nevertheless most new customers downloading this for the first time would use the IAP subscription model.
As for the cost to apple of hosting it - about the same as any digital bytes of the same size. It's probably much smaller than a HD movie.
How many people wake up one day and decide to buy an office suite just to check it out? Most purchases of Office would probably be planned business decisions, in which case downloading the app would be the last step, not the first step.
It was confirmed on Thursday that Apple will garner its stipulated 30 percent share of Microsoft Office 365 subscriptions purchased from the new Office for iPad app,...
Where did Apple confirm this?
All Tim stated on Twitter was, "Welcome to the #iPad and @AppStore! @satyanadella and Office for iPad".
They could have made a deal.
Why do people care about this? Seem like inside baseball that only tech journalists and maybe some Wall Street analysts would be interested in.
It impacts the stock significantly. WSJ and others expect Office for iOS to be a big cost leader for Microsoft. Having 30% of that lead go [as it should] to Apple like any other 3rd party developer means money in Apple's pocket.
This may seem harsh but it's not because some of the advanced features like live wrapping of text around images in Word for iPad come from Apple's advanced text engine.
That's exactly right. There is a lot of stuff app writers don't write these days, they just link to libraries, and a lot of those are in the OS. Probably more than 30% of the code that's actually running when you use Word is Apple's.
FYI: Another indication is that they actually have THREE main cash cows - the third is Server - which I believe is now the biggest.
And it's a case of not only its growth, but strategically importantly, the stalling to declining revenues in Office and Windows. Which has been fairly dramatic since mobile computing just took off. So MS really doesn't have a lot of choice about whether to go for the successful mobile platforms.
And will get some IT uptake in the BYOD segment of the market - plus a lot of users. Maybe me when I finally get a new iPad this fall. Word's a necessary evil in my life, what can I say, and already paying the freight for having it on three machines - so this one won't even cost extra. (Something I haven't noticed any one else point out, btw.)
Why should users have to buy Office360 account only on apple appstore?
They don't. You can purchase your subscription from anywhere. *IF* you choose to purchase your subscription through Apple's app store, Apple will get a 30% cut. So the question is more if there is a MFN-like pricing clause or not. Otherwise MS could just jack the price up on the App store by 30% to let Apple users pay the extra Apple fee or have sales lowering the price when purchased through MS. Apple is usually too smart for that though.
Some food for thought :
After Amelio got tossed from Apple an early culture change was getting rid of the notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft had to lose. It sounds like Microsoft might be discovering the same truth, post-Ballmer.
All of this makes the Surface even more pointless.
No it doesn't, because the Surface is still a much more productive tablet than the iPad, mainly for the following reasons -
1. Viewing two apps side by side.
2. Multi-user account profiles, especially useful if you are sharing devices with other users.
3. Full USB 3.0 port for simple connectivity to flash drives, non-wireless printers, external hard drives, smartphones, etc.
4. Micro SD card for additional storage (up to 128 GB).
5. Access to the desktop environment, which when docked to an external monitor, mouse and keyboard, turns the device into a desktop PC. Even if it's the ARM version, having a "windowed" environment makes it extremely productive as a desktop machine, especially since you can extend the desktop over two screens, rather than just mirror to single external monitor.
6. Access to the full file system.
7. Live Tiles (particularly the use of secondary live tiles, or live in-app short-cuts if you prefer) allows you to configure your start screen for improved efficiency and productivity in ways that aren't possible on the iPad.
That said, Surface is just one type of device. Personally, I have a preference for the Surface Pro 2 or the Dell Venue Pro 11 or the HP Omni 10.
why don't you admit it, as MS did : this battle is lost.
why don't you admit it, as MS did : this battle is lost.
Because there's nothing to admit. It's not my battle. I actually have both an iPad and a Surface. To claim that the Surface is pointless means that you don't understand the differences in capability between the two devices. The Surface IS a better tablet than the iPad in terms of productivity, for the reasons I mentioned above.