Updated Apple hardware is coming soon

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  • Reply 21 of 240
    Maybe the G4s will be the line of inexpensive towers that everyone has been asking for.
  • Reply 22 of 240
    leonisleonis Posts: 3,427member
    [quote]Originally posted by Nostradamus:

    <strong>How about this?



    PowerMac G4



    867Mhz G4 256KB on-die L2 cache and 2MB L3 cache

    133MHz bus

    256MB RAM

    60GB HD

    CD-RW

    GeForceMX4

    Gigabit ethernet

    $1799



    1GHz G4 256KB on-die L2 cache and 2MB L3 cache

    133MHz bus

    256MB RAM

    80Gb HD

    SuperDrive

    GeForceMX4

    Gigabit ethernet

    $2499



    PowerMac G5



    1.2Ghz G5 w/512KB on-die L2 cache 1:!

    300MHz bus

    512MB PC2100 DDR memory

    100GB HD

    SuperDrive

    GeForceMX4

    GigeWire (800Mbps/1600Mbps FireWire)

    $3499



    1.6Ghz G5 w/512KB on-die L2 cache 1:1

    400MHz bus

    512MB PC2100 DDR memory

    120GB HD

    SuperDrive

    GeForce 4 Ti

    GigaWire (800Mbps/1600Mbps FireWire)

    $4499



    Dual 1.4Ghz G5 w/512KB on-die L2 cache 1:1

    350MHz bus

    1GB PC2100 DDR memory

    120GB HD

    SuperDrive

    GeForce 4 Ti

    GigaWire (800Mbps/1600Mbps FireWire)

    $5499



    [ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: Nostradamus ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    There is no point to increase the price of the two G4 models. They are still using the same old shit slow silver motherboard and parts. They they can be made for cheap. The price should be 1299 and 1699 instead.



    G5 - 1.2, 1.4DP, 1.6. The price should be around $1999 - $3500



    I guess the name of this new series will just be called "Power Mac".....take off that generation crap
  • Reply 23 of 240
    Dorsal M,



    Can you confirm these G4s are using the 7450 rather than the 7460 processors? Also, wouldn't the "7451 migrating to the process used for the G5s" really be the 7460 series? Sounds like it.
  • Reply 24 of 240
    THANK THE APPLE GODS! <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> Finally some real info. Thanks Dorsal M! I always believed apple had a G5 up their sleeve. A 500Mhz bus would beat intel's P4s bus.

    I think since they are ready that we will see the G5 at seybold and a new powerbook at MWT. Best guess I can make at this time. Maybe we will get the update to the powermac G4s sometime next week like every one is going on about. Who knows. I'm just happy to know there really is a G5 and that can only mean we will be able to buy one soon. Time to change some accounts around so I can afford one.
  • Reply 25 of 240
    Dorsal, your posts are always a great read and a true portent things to come. You definately know what you are talking about, and I for one, am glad you are sharing it with us.



    You seem to think that there is a possibility that both these configurations may be released together, but I disagree. The G4 variant may be a "mule" to test the mobo for compatibility with G4 class CPU's a direction future Macs (iMacs?) will migrate to. Apple and AAPL needs the impact of the G5 ASAP and if it is ready we will see it soon. I don't see Apple splitting it's PowerMac line between G4's & G5's.



    I think will see one or the other on this motherboard announced at Seybold, if G4, then G5 at MWNY, if only a speed bump this coming Tuesday, we sadly won't see either until MWNY, That is my speculation based on your information.



    Thanks again Dorsal, you give us great hope for the future of the platform.



    [ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: Aphelion ]</p>
  • Reply 26 of 240
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    [quote]I think will see one or the other on this motherboard announced at Seybold, if G4, then G5 at MWNY, if only a speed bump this coming Tuesday, we sadly won't see either until MWNY, That is my speculation based on your information. <hr></blockquote>



    That doesn't make sence to me. You are saying they can release the Apollo ( I assume) in Feb and the G5 in March. However if we get a speedbumped G4 next wek then nothing till July? That doesn't make sence. Why not a speed bumped G4 next week and the G5 in March? Or the Apollo in March? Why wait 6 months in one scenario but release in consecutive months in the other?
  • Reply 27 of 240
    that would give some separation of the consumer and pro line again....still glad i'm getting the new iMac....now i can start planning to buy a new iMac in three years with a G5 in it (and maybe a 17 or 19 inch monitor and geforce4 card...should be old enough and cheap enough in three years....dang, don't even have my iMac G4 yet and am thinking of iMac G5......silly me) g



    that will be my new motto,

    "a new iMac every three years, whether i need it or not"g
  • Reply 28 of 240
    [quote]Originally posted by KidRed:





    That doesn't make sence to me. You are saying they can release the Apollo ( I assume) in Feb and the G5 in March. However if we get a speedbumped G4 next wek then nothing till July? That doesn't make sence. Why not a speed bumped G4 next week and the G5 in March? Or the Apollo in March? Why wait 6 months in one scenario but release in consecutive months in the other?<hr></blockquote>



    Let me clarify: I'm saying that a speed bump next week of the current G4 on the current motherboard, (not Apollo) is bad news for Seybold release of this motherboard with G5. In this case, no news is good news for a G5 soonest. I'm basing this thought on the past performance of Apple in it's upgrade cycles. A new "old" G4 would mean a delay in what we wait for.



    Of course I hope I'm wrong and they bump it up tommorrow, and those that buy a Ghz G4 next week will sell their cars to buy a G5 in March. I'm looking for something to rocket my AAPL stock and make DP 500's cheap on ebay so I can make my Cube what it should have been.



    [ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: Aphelion ]</p>
  • Reply 29 of 240
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    And Dorsal confirms the existence of G5s? ???



    Uh, let's see. The G5 has existed on paper ever since Motorola came out with its roadmap years ago. The 8540 is technically a G5, and it has all that buzzword crap...built-in DDR-333 controller, Rapid IO, DMA, PCI-X, etc...all on chip. We all knew that.



    Carry on.



    I don't care for Dorsal (whoever he/they is/are.) He always seems to get a zillion prototypes spanning from utterly shitty to crazy cool.



    Let's see...so after Dorsal enlightened us, where are we? Square One. We could be getting a piddly update or smething fantastic...tell us something we don't know.
  • Reply 29 of 240
    bill mbill m Posts: 324member
    I am fairly new to this bb... what is Dorsal's track record about future Apple hardware? He seems pretty knowledgeable and some of you seem to think he is accurate.



    I hope all he is saying comes true soon.
  • Reply 31 of 240
    screedscreed Posts: 1,077member
    [quote]Originally posted by Bill M:

    <strong>I am fairly new to this bb... what is Dorsal's track record about future Apple hardware? He seems pretty knowledgeable and some of you seem to think he is accurate.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    He nailed, spec for spec, a previous Power Mac debut a good time in advance. The problem has been posers writing as him just after the revival of AI.



    Anyways, did I read too quickly or do I see no mention of duals!? There's always a possibility that however he gets them he hasn't gotten a dual test box, but Apple going back to a single processor line (two lines actually) would be a marked changed.



    Lastly, any mystery ports on the back Dorsal? Or is Apple truly going to re-brand "Firewire 2" as "Gigawire"?



    Screed
  • Reply 32 of 240
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    [quote]Originally posted by Bill M:

    <strong>I am fairly new to this bb... what is Dorsal's track record about future Apple hardware? He seems pretty knowledgeable and some of you seem to think he is accurate.



    I hope all he is saying comes true soon.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Okay 'who is Dorsal'?



    I guess I'm as able to answer this question as anyone else... I read 'Dorsals' (from the old AI forums) predictions for the Jan 2000 system (this was in the FALL of 1999) and I have to admit that he/she was dead on.....



    Dorsal was MUCH less than 'dead on' with the MWNY systems.



    AI went down for a time and when it finally returned so did MANY dorsal's and via semi-confirmation Dorsal M has been deemed legit (as per the admins) and I have no reason to think they'd lie..



    The rest of the 'dorsal' (doral m) story has yet to be told but what it come down to is 'Dorsal' via the old AI boards had a good pick for the MWSF systems.. the rest is totally up to the reader....





    Dave
  • Reply 33 of 240
    bodhibodhi Posts: 1,424member
    [quote]Originally posted by Eugene:

    <strong>And Dorsal confirms the existence of G5s? ???



    Uh, let's see. The G5 has existed on paper ever since Motorola came out with its roadmap years ago. The 8540 is technically a G5, and it has all that buzzword crap...built-in DDR-333 controller, Rapid IO, DMA, PCI-X, etc...all on chip. We all knew that.



    Carry on.



    I don't care for Dorsal (whoever he/they is/are.) He always seems to get a zillion prototypes spanning from utterly shitty to crazy cool.



    Let's see...so after Dorsal enlightened us, where are we? Square One. We could be getting a piddly update or smething fantastic...tell us something we don't know.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Thank You.



    I did not want to be the first to say this but I agree completely. Almost all of you slammed Dorsal in his last G5 thread here, but since info is so scarce you are willing to believe anything.



    Eugene is right, there is nothing there that isn't public knowledge. What stood out to me as a glaring boo boo was the fact that he incorporated something from a rumor earlier in the week...the 4 USB ports. Apple just calls them 4 now cause of the ones on the keyboard. That was in the so called "Earn and Learn" document. People...take a deep breath and take everything with a grain of salt.
  • Reply 34 of 240
    bill mbill m Posts: 324member
    Thanks sCreeD, Davegee.



    I guess it's cool to compare comments like Dorsal's to actual new product introductions. And yes, he doesn't mention any duals, which I find interesting given the huge push Apple is giving to their current top of the lin offering.



    I am excited about the huge jump in bus speed... if Apple can come up with a motherboard that fast, well.... as some of you say around here: drooooooool!



    (is there a drool emoticon?)
  • Reply 35 of 240
    [quote]Let's see...so after Dorsal enlightened us, where are we? Square One. We could be getting a piddly update or smething fantastic...tell us something we don't know. <hr></blockquote>



    Tacky post guy.



    Can anyone give me a brief history of Dorsal? IE where the faith comes from?
  • Reply 36 of 240
    paulpaul Posts: 5,278member
    [quote]Originally posted by Dorsal M:

    <strong>What I've seen is preliminary but it is on good faith that I share this information. Updated hardware is imminent, but I do not pretend to have a date or release. I have some sketchy details however. Basically there are 2 different systems, one based on an MPC7450 variant</strong>(NOT APOLLO!!)<strong> made on a SOI process and the other is the first of the MPC8500 (G5) made on a .13 micron SOI manufacturing process. The 7450 is scaling to beyonf 1.0GHz but most motherboards have 866 and 1.0GHz versions. They are all on 133MHz system boards with the full complimet of divices that exist in modern systems, including ATA/66 and IEEE1394a</strong>(no firewire2)<strong> ports. Some of the motherboards have 4 USB ports on the motherboard however, but this is not strange as the Quicksilver motherboards have the same provisions however Apple had not implimented that feature on those units. All systems are being sent with a full 2MB of L3 cache. No duals have been seeded. </strong><hr></blockquote>italicized(sp?) specs will make or break Dorsal's credibility, he says:No Apollo, no duals, 867 and 1ghz, no firewire2, ATA/66, and 4 USBs ON THE MOBO, NO OTHER "SPECIAL" PORTS.

    [quote]<strong>The 8500 systems are encased in Quicksilver cases, however much of the internals have been moved and shifted around to provide adequate heat removal and space for component positioning. G5's have a 400 or 500MHz system bus</strong>(seems a bit high to me)<strong> that runs at a 16bit-wide data path. This is the RadipIO bus to a controller that controls most of the onboard peripherals such as AGP 4x (may be 8x docs are vague), 2 PCI busses, Gb Ethernet, IEEE1394b running at 800/1600Mbps, USB 1.1, an IDE interface, and some other system level peripherals. Audio is digital. </strong>(audio is digital now right?)<strong>Processor speeds are 1200/1250MHz to 1400/1500MHz. The processor has a memory controller included on die connected to the core by a 256bit memory bus running at one quarter the processor clock speed. The controller supports 2 memory bus but Apple only uses one so the internal width is cut to 128 bit at one quarter processor core speed. This provides more than enough bandwidth for PC2100 and the controller is designed to handle PC2700 memory although for Apple PC2100 is easier to design for because of motherboard considerations. To design for PC2700 they would need to cut support for a DIMM slot because the distance from the processor is more than allowed. This is the reason why the 133MHz motherboards only have 3 DIMM slots. The 2 PCI busses are 64bit with support for 66MHz slots. One bus controls 2 slots while the other controls the other 2. If you insert a 64bit/33MHz card in one slot, that whole bus will run at 33MHz even if the other card has 66MHz support. But the other bus will be free to handle 66MHz cards. Also of note is that these units have NO L3 cache but L2 was 512KB. I have no information on what kind of support the G5 has for L3 or if it even has L3 cache support. With a very fast memory interface, I fail to see the reason why it would need to waste pin outs on L3 cache support.



    This is good hardware. I have the impression that Apple may offer both models at the same time. The G4 models may even support a higher configuation such as 933MHz and 1.133GHz. But in Q3 of this year the 7451 is supposed to migrate to the same process as the G5 thus boosting speeds</strong> the 7451 HAS ALREADY BEEN IMPLIMENTED, not really performance gains, just some issues with the 7450 that have been cleaned up.. Can't remember the link, but I am 90% sure that this is true)<strong> to, in my estimation, 1.2GHz to 1.5GHz. This is just speculation on my part.</strong><hr></blockquote> OK, so he says the that 7451 is speculation... but there are some important things that he predicts that will be true that other people have not said. The L3 Cache thing could be deduced because if there is fast mem, there is no need for it, he is ight about that. But other things (400MHz BUS?!) are unique to Dorsal and will proove/disproove his credibility...



    any comments?
  • Reply 37 of 240
    [quote]Originally posted by psantora:

    <strong> OK, so he says the that 7451 is speculation... but there are some important things that he predicts that will be true that other people have not said. The L3 Cache thing could be deduced because if there is fast mem, there is no need for it, he is ight about that. But other things (400MHz BUS?!) are unique to Dorsal and will proove/disproove his credibility...



    any comments?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I'm not sure how this validates or fails to validate. From the little that I know about dorsal he works with development hardware. He is not claiming to know what will be released or what apple is planning. Apple sends out test systems with a variety of features. If the price/performance ratio of a particular feature isn't right it probably won't make it into the final design. Even at a late stage of development seeded machines might vary from production models.



    The guy is just reporting what he has observed. Lighten up.
  • Reply 38 of 240
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    [quote]He nailed, spec for spec, a previous Power Mac debut a good time in advance. The problem has been posers writing as him just after the revival of AI.<hr></blockquote>



    We went over this before. We can pull up the previous post if you'd like. It wasn't even close.
  • Reply 39 of 240
    Like many others on this board have communicated, I too do not know very much abou this dorsal figure, BUT, based solely on the way he wrote what he shared, I think it *could* be legit. I at least feel he is not lying. Maybe it will not turn out to be true, but that as well does not mean he/she would be lying. It could mean Apple changed the plan, or that this was some misinformation, that was thought of as bein credible. Either way, I still hope very much that this is true.
  • Reply 40 of 240
    Why is it that "Dorsal M" doesn't sound much like the old "Dorsal"?
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