I thought the average for Apple's iPhone has also been falling for a few quarters. Am I mistaken? Could be I guess.
EDIT: Nope, I'm not mistaken.
Not the catastrophic fall that felled Nokia, then again the majority of phones Apple sells aren't in the cheaper categories where most of Samsung's sales come from.
If that was their strategy for 2012 then why did they release all this crap hardware with someone else's OS? No good ecosystem, poor customer support and not altering course when the user satisfaction falls way below Apples' #1. And to top it all, they didn't do anything about all this the following year. Nor this (calendar) quarter.
We tried, we failed, but we'll just try some more.
Yet another Apple doc reveal, this time results of an Apple survey of iPhone 5 buyers a couple years back. When asked "what one thing would you add to or change about the iPhone" they said:
Going to weight in on this. I think this is an important topic about the way the media has been able to spin apple as losing its innovation spirit and soon will be come less of a presence in the future of tech I don't believe this)
The fact is Steve is gone. People listened to him. He had the media's ear like Bill gates, Bezos, Page, Dell does etc... The want to hear them talk, they know they built something out of nothing and changed the world. Tim cook is a great CEO, but he did not do this. The media does not think of him the same way, and neither does the public.
Case in point. Do you hear any thing about antenna gate any more? Steve took it an made it a non issue, people listened to him when he talked. They took him @ his word because he already had proven him self. Now that was on a product with one of its primary uses was spun to have a"Flaw".
Now lets talk Maps. I even still do not use maps, even though the few times I did it worked pretty well. I still go to google maps. The letter that TC wrote did not effectively change the message. People did not really care what TC had to say on the issue, it was moot because he does not have the same history as tech "visionaries". In short he hasn't proven that he can change the world like Steve did over and over again.
I think apple as a company is doing incredible. Their devices are great I use them every day. But Tim cook has hard shoes to fill. He needs to change the world for the media/general public to really believe what he says about innovation and the future and that apple can still be real game changers.
I hate to say this but we would not be having this discussion if Steve was still around, its just a fact. He's not so apple now has something to prove.
1) No one took Jobs at his word over "Antenna Gate" If you think so then find the date which Apple had the impromptu special event and then look for articles claiming it's all BS that were posted immediately after it and for at least a year, including lawsuits. Revisionist history doesn't due you any favours.
2) They sold the GSM version of the iPhone 4 up until last year with no HW changes. How could they possibly do that if the antenna wouldn't work simply be touching the phone? Their innovation was so successful they sold that device for over 3 years and are still selling the 4S, in its 3rd year, which also uses an external antenna.
3) I never hear about Maps and I use Maps daily. You not using Maps has no barring on whether Maps works or whether you believe Tim Cook has proven himself but if you actually cared about such a think you would do a little research and see that Tim Cook has proven himself as CEO and being a part of Apple's success for over a decade.
4) Without Tim Cook it's safe to say Apple would not have been nearly as successful as it was under Steve or today but I suppose you're idea of success is a brand new product category, not all the innovations that have come out after Steve's death… which I think is a pretty pathetic measure.
I dunno about that. I remember a few times that both Mr. Jobs on stage and Mr. Shiller in twitter posts (think it was twitter anyway) have publicly acknowledged their competition with pointed jabs. That was just Steve Jobs character and part of what the public loved, but I've been a bit surprised by some of Shiller's comments giving attention to Android while sounding more like something we would expect from Ballmer IMO.
What Apple has done a marvelous job with is giving their fans the impression they're above doing market research and surveys, don't pay attention to what the competition is doing, nor do any comparative analysis with competing platforms or handsets to help determine where they might need to improve. They of course do all of those but as you've noted keep it out of the public eye for the most part. I can't think of any company more successful at protecting their public image. A high-profile trial like this makes that job much harder.
Interesting, but I don't think it's a big secret that Apple does market research; the question is how do they interpret the results better than anyone else.
The company rolls in staggering revenues with a ridiculously small number of services and products. Samsung boasts similar revenues, but has to do it by throwing everything at the wall.
Secondly, I'm not convinced by your assertion that Apple does comparative analysis with competing devices to see where they should improve; look at the differences between the two companies is highlighted in these memos.
Schiller says that Apple's advertising isn't hitting the mark like Samsung's, then he adds that this is a real problem because Apple has the better products. His concern is that Apple's message is not getting across, not necessarily that Samsung's is.
Looking at Samsung's memos, I'm not even sure they like the stuff they're building.
Apple notes that 'Customers want what we don't have.'
The Samsung version of that appears to be 'Look at what Apple is doing and do that.'
There's nothing wrong with that, but it does show that Apple is focussed on the customer, while Samsung is focussed on Apple. The other interesting thing here is that Apple acknowledged the need for a large screen phone last year – and they still haven't got one to show. Is this tardiness, or is Apple not prepared to just dump poor solutions on the market (like Samsung's fingerprint reader), and would rather wait for technology and research to catch up with Mr Ives near-autistic sense of 'right'.
Going back to your notion that Apple tries to convince people that it doesn't do market research; I think you might have read that wrong. I don't think that Apple has ever said that, though they have said that certain aspects of market research (focus groups) don't yield information that would be helpful to them. Just from my dealings with them, Apple carries out more market research than any other company I've come across. It's also a lot more tightly focussed than any other company I've come across.
If you think about it, if Apple cared about folk knowing they carry out market research then they wouldn't keep sending me surveys to fill in, or ask me for usage statistics or send me a questionnaire after every other visit to the Apple Store. That's not a good way to keep market research a secret, is it?
Depends on your needs. If you want a top quality smartphone backed up by a seamless ecosystem from a company that respects its customers, choose the 5S. If you want a plastic sunshade with a non-upgradable operating system and lots of malware from a company closely aligned with the interests of cell phone carriers then the Note 3 might be a good choice.
Wow, nicely put. Trust me, Brandon: take freediverx's very accurate summation of both phones' respective features to heart. "Depending on your needs," of course.
Interesting, but I don't think it's a big secret that Apple does market research; the question is how do they interpret the results better than anyone else.
Going back to your notion that Apple tries to convince people that it doesn't do market research; I think you might have read that wrong. I don't think that Apple has ever said that, though they have said that certain aspects of market research (focus groups) don't yield information that would be helpful to them. Just from my dealings with them, Apple carries out more market research than any other company I've come across. It's also a lot more tightly focussed than any other company I've come across.
Steve Jobs specifically said: "We do no market research."
March of 2008. It's a sound-bite world and that's the sound-bite. How do you think he hoped for that to be perceived? Probably just the way a lot of folks did, literally. Of course it's not actually true, but Mr. Jobs was a marketing genius and knew how to work a crowd. Apple presentations and interviews will never be the same without him.
Schiller was just as misleading if not more so in his testimony from 2012's trial IMO as shown by documents revealed in this latest case.
He testified under oath "We don't use any customer surveys, focus groups, or typical things of that nature. That plays no role in the creation of the products."
He then went on to say "you never ask people 'what features do you want in a new product". Again misleading if not downright dishonest since Apple certainly asks what buyers would like to see done differently on the iPhone as shown in documents from the latest trial.
Galaxy S3 - released May 2012, still awaiting official update to the current Android 4.4 KitKat.
iPhone 4S - released Oct 2011, officially updatable to the current iOS 7.1
iPhone 5 - released Oct 2012, officially updatable to the current iOS 7.1.
One thing I would also like to add is that Apple is even more loyal to its handsets: the iPhone 4 was upgraded to iOS 7.1 and is of course the predecessor to the 4s. And I must say, as a result of that update, my iPhone 4 feels like a brand new phone. It is safe to say that any phone you buy from Apple will be supported and stay in terrific working order for many years. Or to put it another way: a very safe investment of your hard-earned money.
Which phone do you think I should get the note 3 or 5s?
Originally Posted by Brandon Powell
Whats "non-upgradeable" about android? And what phone do you have?
Look- not sure what response you think you're going to get from "Appleinsider" on which phone you should get. And likely, someone coming in with those questions is just trolling. But I'll bite, pretend you aren't- and I'll just say this:
You want Android? Cool. Go for it. But don't get a Samsung. Are they the best Android phones out there? Arguably. Are they the most despicable company that I would never support? Absolutely.
Go buy an HTC, LG, Windows Phone, iPhone- whatever you like best. But don't buy a Samsung. How many theft cases, infringement cases, immoral paid advertising cases (including paid commenters in forums), etc. does one have to see before they finally don't send money to these crooks.
So your answer? iPhone. Of course, I'm biased. If I had to pick a phone other than the iPhone? I go with the new Windows Phone. Then I go with the HTC one. I'd rather have a pager from Motorola then buy a Samsung phone.
Yet another Apple doc reveal, this time results of an Apple survey of iPhone 5 buyers a couple years back. When asked "what one thing would you add to or change about the iPhone" they said:
All of this courtroom disclosure has me asking what has this clown Shiller been doing? Apparently all decisions within Apple are driven by the marketing department (according to a recent article citing those that have worked within Apple). The e-mail exchanges Shiller has had with Tim and also with their advertising company of 16 years suggests that this guy is feckless and inept. He bemoans the fact to his ad company that Samsung is getting a lot of traction in their bashing campaign against Apple despite the fact that Apple has better products. Then he suggests to Tim that it might be a good idea to fire Apple's ad company. But, does he do it? No. Does he figure-out how to respond to Samsung's bashing campaign? No. He just allows Apple to sit there as Samsung's personal punching bag. No big tech company keeps the same ad agency for 16 years. Usually they are fired every 2-3 years to bring in a new company with fresh ideas. Not in Apple's case. This guy Shiller has to go. Apple's marketing leadership has been atrocious and this trial has exposed Shiller for the the inept buffoon that he is.
Yet another Apple doc reveal, this time results of an Apple survey of iPhone 5 buyers a couple years back. When asked "what one thing would you add to or change about the iPhone" they said:
And that's why the results of a single survey shouldn't be examined in isolation.
I was working on an application years ago. A survey told us that most of our users wanted more customisations. Our usage stats from the app told us that most of our users had never even accessed the customisations screen to see what was available.
My first thought was that they couldn't find the customisations. We moved it, and then our users wanted to know why were 'complicating' things by moving customisations to where they could reach it with one click.
And that's why the results of a single survey shouldn't be examined in isolation.
I was working on an application years ago. A survey told us that most of our users wanted more customisations. Our usage stats from the app told us that most of our users had never even accessed the customisations screen to see what was available.
My first thought was that they couldn't find the customisations. We moved it, and then our users wanted to know why were 'complicating' things by moving customisations to where they could reach it with one click.
No doubt there's lots of research and surveys at Apple on those listed "buyer wants". This is just the first one publicly revealed this past week, and pretty unlikely it's the only one arriving at much the same conclusion . Another Apple research doc showed little growth in the 4" smartphone space but good numbers coming from the 4.5" and up, supporting the need for a larger display to meet consumer demands. I'd expect there are other documents we might get a peek at before all is said and done.
Think Apple might bring out their own phablet in the next 10 months?
Steve Jobs specifically said: "We do no market research."
March of 2008. How do you think he meant for that to be perceived? Probably just the way a lot of folks did, literally. Of course it's not actually true, but Mr. Jobs was a marketing genius and knew how to work a crowd. Apple presentations and interviews will never be the same without him.
Schiller was just as misleading if not more so in his testimony from 2012's trial IMO as shown by documents revealed in this latest case.
"We don't use any customer surveys, focus groups, or typical things of that nature. That plays no role in the creation of the products."
He then went on to say "you never ask people 'what features do you want in a new product". Again misleading if not downright dishonest since Apple certainly asks what buyers would like to see done differently on the iPhone as shown in documents from the latest trial.
Cue up the "out of context" and "what SJ meant was" comments.
Now lets talk Maps. I even still do not use maps, even though the few times I did it worked pretty well. I still go to google maps.
As posted elsewhere:
Quote:
As long as you need a data plan[,] any mapping GPS app [it] is going to fail at one time or another.
Since not all service providers are equal in every aspect, whether compared locally or nationally, 100 percent in never guaranteed . Thus, Apple Maps may appear superior to Google Maps in some areas; it maybe that a particular internet service provider/iPhone connection is better, [i.e, in quality/quantity/speed] at supplying the necessary mapping data in that particular area than another. And vice versa.
I personally don’t use either map for navigating. TomTom works exceptionally well, whether in Canada, US, Mexico, UK and Europe. No data plan or caching required when out of the country. And invariably virtually 100 percent accuracy wherever I have used it.
This is not just particular to GPS mapping apps that require a live internet connection to get data.
Hey man, no troll here. I am considering switching, but I never had an Iphone. I assume someone on AI would know about Iphones lol. I might just get both use 5s for communication and Note 3 for entertainment.
Given that the rest of the items on the list stem from a lack of intelligence…
Huh? That's what you think of iPhone buyers?? I'd guess it's more likely a PBR. . .
Post Before Reading. Those were the results of Apple survey's of early iPhone5 buyers, probably the most faithful and knowledgeable of all the Apple market segments.
Comments
I thought the average for Apple's iPhone has also been falling for a few quarters. Am I mistaken? Could be I guess.
EDIT: Nope, I'm not mistaken.
Not the catastrophic fall that felled Nokia, then again the majority of phones Apple sells aren't in the cheaper categories where most of Samsung's sales come from.
We tried, we failed, but we'll just try some more.
Samsung. The always trying company.
[IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/41407/width/500/height/1000[/IMG]
I'm not a "font guy" but even I think that font is a poor choice.
1) No one took Jobs at his word over "Antenna Gate" If you think so then find the date which Apple had the impromptu special event and then look for articles claiming it's all BS that were posted immediately after it and for at least a year, including lawsuits. Revisionist history doesn't due you any favours.
2) They sold the GSM version of the iPhone 4 up until last year with no HW changes. How could they possibly do that if the antenna wouldn't work simply be touching the phone? Their innovation was so successful they sold that device for over 3 years and are still selling the 4S, in its 3rd year, which also uses an external antenna.
3) I never hear about Maps and I use Maps daily. You not using Maps has no barring on whether Maps works or whether you believe Tim Cook has proven himself but if you actually cared about such a think you would do a little research and see that Tim Cook has proven himself as CEO and being a part of Apple's success for over a decade.
4) Without Tim Cook it's safe to say Apple would not have been nearly as successful as it was under Steve or today but I suppose you're idea of success is a brand new product category, not all the innovations that have come out after Steve's death… which I think is a pretty pathetic measure.
I dunno about that. I remember a few times that both Mr. Jobs on stage and Mr. Shiller in twitter posts (think it was twitter anyway) have publicly acknowledged their competition with pointed jabs. That was just Steve Jobs character and part of what the public loved, but I've been a bit surprised by some of Shiller's comments giving attention to Android while sounding more like something we would expect from Ballmer IMO.
What Apple has done a marvelous job with is giving their fans the impression they're above doing market research and surveys, don't pay attention to what the competition is doing, nor do any comparative analysis with competing platforms or handsets to help determine where they might need to improve. They of course do all of those but as you've noted keep it out of the public eye for the most part. I can't think of any company more successful at protecting their public image. A high-profile trial like this makes that job much harder.
Interesting, but I don't think it's a big secret that Apple does market research; the question is how do they interpret the results better than anyone else.
The company rolls in staggering revenues with a ridiculously small number of services and products. Samsung boasts similar revenues, but has to do it by throwing everything at the wall.
Secondly, I'm not convinced by your assertion that Apple does comparative analysis with competing devices to see where they should improve; look at the differences between the two companies is highlighted in these memos.
Schiller says that Apple's advertising isn't hitting the mark like Samsung's, then he adds that this is a real problem because Apple has the better products. His concern is that Apple's message is not getting across, not necessarily that Samsung's is.
Looking at Samsung's memos, I'm not even sure they like the stuff they're building.
Apple notes that 'Customers want what we don't have.'
The Samsung version of that appears to be 'Look at what Apple is doing and do that.'
There's nothing wrong with that, but it does show that Apple is focussed on the customer, while Samsung is focussed on Apple. The other interesting thing here is that Apple acknowledged the need for a large screen phone last year – and they still haven't got one to show. Is this tardiness, or is Apple not prepared to just dump poor solutions on the market (like Samsung's fingerprint reader), and would rather wait for technology and research to catch up with Mr Ives near-autistic sense of 'right'.
Going back to your notion that Apple tries to convince people that it doesn't do market research; I think you might have read that wrong. I don't think that Apple has ever said that, though they have said that certain aspects of market research (focus groups) don't yield information that would be helpful to them. Just from my dealings with them, Apple carries out more market research than any other company I've come across. It's also a lot more tightly focussed than any other company I've come across.
If you think about it, if Apple cared about folk knowing they carry out market research then they wouldn't keep sending me surveys to fill in, or ask me for usage statistics or send me a questionnaire after every other visit to the Apple Store. That's not a good way to keep market research a secret, is it?
Steve Jobs specifically said:
"We do no market research."
March of 2008. It's a sound-bite world and that's the sound-bite. How do you think he hoped for that to be perceived? Probably just the way a lot of folks did, literally. Of course it's not actually true, but Mr. Jobs was a marketing genius and knew how to work a crowd. Apple presentations and interviews will never be the same without him.
Schiller was just as misleading if not more so in his testimony from 2012's trial IMO as shown by documents revealed in this latest case.
He testified under oath "We don't use any customer surveys, focus groups, or typical things of that nature. That plays no role in the creation of the products."
He then went on to say "you never ask people 'what features do you want in a new product". Again misleading if not downright dishonest since Apple certainly asks what buyers would like to see done differently on the iPhone as shown in documents from the latest trial.
Which phone do you think I should get the note 3 or 5s?
Whats "non-upgradeable" about android? And what phone do you have?
Look- not sure what response you think you're going to get from "Appleinsider" on which phone you should get. And likely, someone coming in with those questions is just trolling. But I'll bite, pretend you aren't- and I'll just say this:
You want Android? Cool. Go for it. But don't get a Samsung. Are they the best Android phones out there? Arguably. Are they the most despicable company that I would never support? Absolutely.
Go buy an HTC, LG, Windows Phone, iPhone- whatever you like best. But don't buy a Samsung. How many theft cases, infringement cases, immoral paid advertising cases (including paid commenters in forums), etc. does one have to see before they finally don't send money to these crooks.
So your answer? iPhone. Of course, I'm biased. If I had to pick a phone other than the iPhone? I go with the new Windows Phone. Then I go with the HTC one. I'd rather have a pager from Motorola then buy a Samsung phone.
Yet another Apple doc reveal, this time results of an Apple survey of iPhone 5 buyers a couple years back. When asked "what one thing would you add to or change about the iPhone" they said:
?
But but... no one wants a larger screen! /s
All of this courtroom disclosure has me asking what has this clown Shiller been doing? Apparently all decisions within Apple are driven by the marketing department (according to a recent article citing those that have worked within Apple). The e-mail exchanges Shiller has had with Tim and also with their advertising company of 16 years suggests that this guy is feckless and inept. He bemoans the fact to his ad company that Samsung is getting a lot of traction in their bashing campaign against Apple despite the fact that Apple has better products. Then he suggests to Tim that it might be a good idea to fire Apple's ad company. But, does he do it? No. Does he figure-out how to respond to Samsung's bashing campaign? No. He just allows Apple to sit there as Samsung's personal punching bag. No big tech company keeps the same ad agency for 16 years. Usually they are fired every 2-3 years to bring in a new company with fresh ideas. Not in Apple's case. This guy Shiller has to go. Apple's marketing leadership has been atrocious and this trial has exposed Shiller for the the inept buffoon that he is.
Yet another Apple doc reveal, this time results of an Apple survey of iPhone 5 buyers a couple years back. When asked "what one thing would you add to or change about the iPhone" they said:
And that's why the results of a single survey shouldn't be examined in isolation.
I was working on an application years ago. A survey told us that most of our users wanted more customisations. Our usage stats from the app told us that most of our users had never even accessed the customisations screen to see what was available.
My first thought was that they couldn't find the customisations. We moved it, and then our users wanted to know why were 'complicating' things by moving customisations to where they could reach it with one click.
No doubt there's lots of research and surveys at Apple on those listed "buyer wants". This is just the first one publicly revealed this past week, and pretty unlikely it's the only one arriving at much the same conclusion . Another Apple research doc showed little growth in the 4" smartphone space but good numbers coming from the 4.5" and up, supporting the need for a larger display to meet consumer demands. I'd expect there are other documents we might get a peek at before all is said and done.
Think Apple might bring out their own phablet in the next 10 months?
Cue up the "out of context" and "what SJ meant was" comments.
Now lets talk Maps. I even still do not use maps, even though the few times I did it worked pretty well. I still go to google maps.
As posted elsewhere:
As long as you need a data plan[,] any mapping GPS app [it] is going to fail at one time or another.
Since not all service providers are equal in every aspect, whether compared locally or nationally, 100 percent in never guaranteed . Thus, Apple Maps may appear superior to Google Maps in some areas; it maybe that a particular internet service provider/iPhone connection is better, [i.e, in quality/quantity/speed] at supplying the necessary mapping data in that particular area than another. And vice versa.
I personally don’t use either map for navigating. TomTom works exceptionally well, whether in Canada, US, Mexico, UK and Europe. No data plan or caching required when out of the country. And invariably virtually 100 percent accuracy wherever I have used it.
This is not just particular to GPS mapping apps that require a live internet connection to get data.
But but... no one wants a larger screen! /s
Given that the rest of the items on the list stem from a lack of intelligence…
Hey man, no troll here. I am considering switching, but I never had an Iphone. I assume someone on AI would know about Iphones lol. I might just get both use 5s for communication and Note 3 for entertainment.
Huh? That's what you think of iPhone buyers?? I'd guess it's more likely a PBR. . .
Post Before Reading. Those were the results of Apple survey's of early iPhone5 buyers, probably the most faithful and knowledgeable of all the Apple market segments.
Where are these guys today??