Rumor: Apple plans to bring iPhone baseband chip design in-house

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 32
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    The power-saving potential here is tremendous. This is where Apple could set itself apart from the rest yet again.

    Not to mention the money-saving potential. The iPhone 5S wireless chips at $32 are second only to the display and touch ($41) costs in the BOM. Wireless is about 17% of the total BOM cost of $191.

    http://technology.ihs.com/451425/groundbreaking-iphone-5s-carries-199-bom-and-manufacturing-cost-ihs-teardown-reveals
  • Reply 22 of 32
    dugbugdugbug Posts: 283member
    Apple needs to integrate it into their SOC for power savings. Qualcomm sells them discrete chips, or within one of their SOCs. This is obviously not to Apple's liking. I always thought apple would license a core of some sort from qualcomm and integrate it, but in reality this is their last big advantage they have over the A-series seeing that they do not own the compilers, OS, devices, etc.

    Remember, apple is not going to just take telecom 101 and walk into a lab with a soldering iron. They will end up with what they want sooner or later.
  • Reply 23 of 32
    froodfrood Posts: 771member
    Would be interesting to see if that team focuses on silicon on sapphire (SOS) technologies. With Apple's drive to sapphire I wouldn't be surprised. It would make for better power consumption, better signal reception, and could support enough RF band so they could build a 'one iPhone works everywhere in the world' chip.

    Currently there are better SOS variants out there than current phones use. They don't get much utilization because they are still priced substantially higher and existing technologies are viewed as 'good enough'

    Going beyond 'good enough' to deliver a better technology at higher price sounds pretty consistent with Apple, and with their increased volumes of sapphire capabilities it might be an avenue they can explore.
  • Reply 24 of 32
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    frood wrote: »
    Would be interesting to see if that team focuses on silicon on sapphire (SOS) technologies. With Apple's drive to sapphire I wouldn't be surprised. It would make for better power consumption, better signal reception, and could support enough RF band so they could build a 'one iPhone works everywhere in the world' chip.

    Currently there are better SOS variants out there than current phones use. They don't get much utilization because they are still priced substantially higher and existing technologies are viewed as 'good enough'

    Going beyond 'good enough' to deliver a better technology at higher price sounds pretty consistent with Apple, and with their increased volumes of sapphire capabilities it might be an avenue they can explore.

    Yes!

    If Apple does SoS, I suspect that their first iteration will be a separate chip -- rather than part of the Ax APU. A wireless radio (Cell, WiFi, BT, GPS) would seem a natural first step.
  • Reply 25 of 32
    fracfrac Posts: 480member
    snova wrote: »
    solipsismx wrote: »
     
    snova wrote: »
    hmm... how about Qualcomm?


    Could you elaborate.
    Qualcomm has all the pieces to do the same.
    So does Intel. 

    So it seems does Samsung.
    http://www.deltapartnersgroup.com/our_insights/articles/lte-asia-article-series-part-four-samsung-swims-upstream-again-
    LTE is set to be the next litigation battlefield.
    I just wish some court, anywhere, would set FRAND fees in some indisputable framework which can be applied universally.
  • Reply 26 of 32
    gtbuzzgtbuzz Posts: 129member
    Apple's expertise points in this direction. They are able to do what few others can: iPhone or Mac on a chip eventually.
  • Reply 27 of 32
    ws11ws11 Posts: 159member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mcarling View Post



    It makes a lot of sense to eventually integrated the baseband processor into the A series CPU/GPU (to improve performance, battery life, reliability, and reduce cost). Designing their own discrete baseband processor would be the obvious incremental step along that path.

    Of course they need to match the performance and capabilities of Qualcomm's global LTE chips.  

     

    Qualcomm will only keep improving their design:

     

    image

     

    Don't forget, Qualcomm and Intel already have LTE-Advanced solutions.  In the case of Qualcomm their LTE-A chips have been on the market in South Korea since Q2 2013, and they'll be launching in Q2 2014 in USA with AT&T.

  • Reply 28 of 32
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member

    Here is something I heard which I believe is true about Apple's SoC design, unlike Intel and companies like Broadcom and Qualcomm, they all have to make products which work with a wide verity of application and customer and they automate much of their design. They do no have the time to thoroughly optimize the design so it all things to all people, but does not do any of it was well as it could.

     

    Apple on the other hand only has to worry about its SoC working in Apple products and only has feature in it that only apple uses and has nothing extra to bleed off performance and resources to make it work. Where most silicon chips are auto-routed to same time, apple hand routes the chip so they are optimizing the overall performance of the chip. This has benefits form speed, heat and power which the guys who automate the task.

     

    I believe the above to be true since I seen an analysis of a tear-down of Apple SoC, they could do the same with the Baseband chips as well and possible get ride of performance robbing piece of the design which you know exist

  • Reply 29 of 32
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,278member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dugbug View Post



    Apple needs to integrate it into their SOC for power savings. Qualcomm sells them discrete chips, or within one of their SOCs. This is obviously not to Apple's liking. I always thought apple would license a core of some sort from qualcomm and integrate it, but in reality this is their last big advantage they have over the A-series seeing that they do not own the compilers, OS, devices, etc.



    Remember, apple is not going to just take telecom 101 and walk into a lab with a soldering iron. They will end up with what they want sooner or later.

     

    Like the A series chip in a laptop, desktop, or server. Ha..Ha...Ha....

  • Reply 30 of 32
    pmzpmz Posts: 3,433member

    There is little debate over should they or shouldn't they. We all know full well that Apple will only do it themselves if they can MATCH or exceed performance, while also gaining other benefits such as cost/size/power.

  • Reply 31 of 32
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,278member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pmz View Post

     

    There is little debate over should they or shouldn't they. We all know full well that Apple will only do it themselves if they can MATCH or exceed performance, while also gaining other benefits such as cost/size/power.


     

    Apple's is probably motivated to make it more difficult for the competition to follow, higher margins, smaller thinner designs and long term a seat at the table to have a say on future modem development/standards.

  • Reply 32 of 32
    theothergeofftheothergeoff Posts: 2,081member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

     

    I'm not an engineer so I'm just guessing, but these radio processors must be one of the main power hogs after the LCD and CPU. As someone alluded to above, it's likely one of the more expensive parts as well. In other words, there's a lot of motivation for Apple to take this in-house. Reductions in power consumption and cost would offset new innovations such as the sapphire glass.


     

    I would pile on in that building your own baseband chip that is 

    a) Designed to the rest of your chipset, and OS

          delivering better internal performance (speed)

          delivering better operating performance (power consumption)

     

    b) possibly dis-integrated and 're-integrated' into your chipset

          partnering with chips in a way that offloads stuff like the M7 works with the A7

          

    c) optimized to your specific set of bands and protocols.

          Introduce apple only radio based functions (patented local low power networks for things like iRing/iWatch,iEarring,iNose ring)

          iBeacon V2 technology

          Mesh networking

          Pcell networking

     

    I wouldn't think they would do this just to save a few bucks.  Any chip Apple builds  would be all about separating iDevices

    from all competitors.

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