How about NO additional charge for high resolution tracks we already own? Apple should be trying to prop up a dwindling marketplace, not charging more for files it already has in hand.
The whole issue is ultimately up to the record labels. They kind of dictate the ultimately price. I don't think Apple or the record labels are just going to give previous content owners free update to 24 bit. Just a gut feeling. Apple only wants a 30% of gross margin so they can get $.05 per dollar sold. I agree it would be nice, but I doubt it.
What I believe they SHOULD do is as follows:
Original analog recording should be converted to 24 Bit and charge the same amount, but give people the choice of 16 bit or 24 bit due to file size.
Original 16 bit recordings should probably stay at 16 Bit unless they have a way to improve the sound quality, which is doubtful. Upsampling, unless you have good apodising filters or some other means to clean up since up sampling is not always better.
Original 24 bit recordings should be converted (or actually left at 24 bit, since they down sample to 16 bit currently) and they charge the same amount, give people the choice of which to download. It's too bad it took a LONG time before recordings were originally tracked at 24 bit. Even though many studios had the capability, they didn't automatically track at 24/96, etc. because back when converters first hit the market, hard drives were still rather expensive and computers not as fast as they are today. So a lot of studios dragged their feet in terms of tracking at 24 bit. I'm sure a fair number still track at 16 bit just to keep the file sizes smaller.
The problem as to why SACD and DVD-A didn't catch on is that there was little content available and it was priced too expensively (higher cost of the media and record label greed) and most people simply don't have accurate enough systems to play them back. Only the more serious people willing to spend more money really saw the benefit to pay the increased costs. But the masses don't have that kind of money. But with even decent earbuds, headphones, they should be able to tell.
I wouldn't mind paying a higher tier price (within reason) for iTunes Match in order to match and download HD versions of tracks I already own. And iTunes Match should match previously purchased HD music (it does this now in a limited sense but it has had trouble on some tracks I purchased from HD Tracks).
I wouldn't mind paying a higher tier price (within reason) for iTunes Match in order to match and download HD versions of tracks I already own. And iTunes Match should match previously purchased HD music (it does this now in a limited sense but it has had trouble on some tracks I purchased from HD Tracks).
Yeah, iTunes Match has a file size limitation. I forget what it is off the top of my head, I think it's around 200MB file and 24/96 or higher can easily surpass that amount. But I think that would be cool if we could get it to be free if we have iTunes Match.. iTunes Match is a great service. I didn't think it was going to be that good, but it is. I just think they need to increase the file size limitations. I buy off of HD Tracks and others as well, so I know what you mean.
Just send Apple Feedback a note. www.apple.com/feedback that's what I do, and many times they finally get it done. not 100%, but at least we have a chance to raise our voices to the proper team.
Yeah, iTunes Match has a file size limitation. I forget what it is off the top of my head, I think it's around 200MB file and 24/96 or higher can easily surpass that amount. But I think that would be cool if we could get it to be free if we have iTunes Match.. iTunes Match is a great service. I didn't think it was going to be that good, but it is. I just think they need to increase the file size limitations. I buy off of HD Tracks and others as well, so I know what you mean.
Just send Apple Feedback a note. www.apple.com/feedback that's what I do, and many times they finally get it done. not 100%, but at least we have a chance to raise our voices to the proper team.
Ah, well that explains why this seems to happen with the 24/192khz files more than anything else.
I had earlier sent Apple's feedback page a lengthy request for HD music and Airplay compatibility. We'll see what happens.
How about NO additional charge for high resolution tracks we already own? Apple should be trying to prop up a dwindling marketplace, not charging more for files it already has in hand.
What do you mean by not charging us for files it already has in it's hands?
What do you mean by not charging us for files it already has in it's hands?
Apple’s back end library is already ALAC. He wants Apple to sell the ALAC files directly (and make them freely redownloadable instead of charging for upgrading from existing ones).
Unfortunately, that’s not how bandwidth works.
Though Apple directly selling ALAC is fine with me.
Apple’s back end library is already ALAC. He wants Apple to sell the ALAC files directly (and make them freely redownloadable instead of charging for upgrading from existing ones).
Unfortunately, that’s not how bandwidth works.
Though Apple directly selling ALAC is fine with me.
I guess it's what the record labels will allow. Apple is just the middleman when it comes to content.
I wish I could just $99 a year and download whatever I wanted. B&W has that, but they only have about 25 albums in their collection and they add a couple every month. :-) But it would be cool just to pay $99 for anything off of iTunes, regardless of bit and format. :-) I'm sure the world's bandwidth, Apple's own bandwidth, etc. will get choked unit everyone has their own iTunes servers that are almost identical to Apple's. :-
I guess it's what the record labels will allow. Apple is just the middleman when it comes to content.
I wish I could just $99 a year and download whatever I wanted. B&W has that, but they only have about 25 albums in their collection and they add a couple every month. :-) But it would be cool just to pay $99 for anything off of iTunes, regardless of bit and format. :-) I'm sure the world's bandwidth, Apple's own bandwidth, etc. will get choked unit everyone has their own iTunes servers that are almost identical to Apple's. :-
Here's what I'm looking for from Apple:
1. HD music sold from iTunes Store at least 24/96 khz.
2. An option for HD downloads of existing music through iTunes Match
3. A larger number of songs allowed to match in iTunes Match (at least 100K, Amazon allows 250K). HD music owners often have larger libraries anyway.
4. Compatibility for HD music for Airplay, at least in newer devices like the Airport Express 802.11n third gen and third party receivers (my 2013 Denon receiver already handled ALAC 24/96 on a USB stick) Airplay compatibility with HD music would eliminate most of the need for a separate computer and USB access to a DAC.
1. HD music sold from iTunes Store at least 24/96 khz.
2. An option for HD downloads of existing music through iTunes Match
3. A larger number of songs allowed to match in iTunes Match (at least 100K, Amazon allows 250K). HD music owners often have larger libraries anyway.
4. Compatibility for HD music for Airplay, at least in newer devices like the Airport Express 802.11n third gen and third party receivers (my 2013 Denon receiver already handled ALAC 24/96 on a USB stick) Airplay compatibility with HD music would eliminate most of the need for a separate computer and USB access to a DAC.
5. A pony.
Apple can't dictate if they will give only 24/96, that's dependent on the record label. At HD Tracks, they have whatever the label gives them, so it ranges from 44.1 to 192, so far. Some albums, they will just give 24/44.1, but some they'll give you at least one or two choices and it's up to the record label.
I think they will have to increase the file size limit. All iTunes Match actually does is it backs up the data from your hard drive, as long as it's less than 200MB file size, and then you can retrieve it elsewhere, etc. But you aren't buying anything from them per se. So, if you have a 24 bit song that's less than 200MB, it will save that rendition of it. I think they limit to 25,000 tracks less than 200MB per file.
Airplay would have to be 24 bit compatible, I don't know if it is yet or not, but the Airport Express, etc. only have a 16 bit DAC inside, it depends on how you hook it up whether it routes it through the internal DAC.
802.11ac just started shipping on some newer products starting last year, but it will take Apple another year or two until ALL products on Apple's products list gets the update. The iDevices haven't yet been updated to 802.11ac yet, that starts this year I would imagine.
A pony? I don't think Apple is going to give you a Pony. I don't even think Tim Cook has a pony. I think he would have to have one first before they even think of giving people a pony. He might send you a picture of a pony for you to look at. That's about the best they are going to do. But here's a clip from the Seinfeld episode about the Pony remark. Will that make you happy?
1. HD music sold from iTunes Store at least 24/96 khz.
2. An option for HD downloads of existing music through iTunes Match
3. A larger number of songs allowed to match in iTunes Match (at least 100K, Amazon allows 250K). HD music owners often have larger libraries anyway.
4. Compatibility for HD music for Airplay, at least in newer devices like the Airport Express 802.11n third gen and third party receivers (my 2013 Denon receiver already handled ALAC 24/96 on a USB stick) Airplay compatibility with HD music would eliminate most of the need for a separate computer and USB access to a DAC.
5. A pony.
Good requests. I would add a sixth: a unicorn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet
Here's what I'm looking for from Apple:
1. HD music sold from iTunes Store at least 24/96 khz.
2. An option for HD downloads of existing music through iTunes Match
3. A larger number of songs allowed to match in iTunes Match (at least 100K, Amazon allows 250K). HD music owners often have larger libraries anyway.
4. Compatibility for HD music for Airplay, at least in newer devices like the Airport Express 802.11n third gen and third party receivers (my 2013 Denon receiver already handled ALAC 24/96 on a USB stick) Airplay compatibility with HD music would eliminate most of the need for a separate computer and USB access to a DAC.
Apple can't dictate if they will give only 24/96, that's dependent on the record label. At HD Tracks, they have whatever the label gives them, so it ranges from 44.1 to 192, so far. Some albums, they will just give 24/44.1, but some they'll give you at least one or two choices and it's up to the record label.
I think they will have to increase the file size limit. All iTunes Match actually does is it backs up the data from your hard drive, as long as it's less than 200MB file size, and then you can retrieve it elsewhere, etc. But you aren't buying anything from them per se. So, if you have a 24 bit song that's less than 200MB, it will save that rendition of it. I think they limit to 25,000 tracks less than 200MB per file.
Airplay would have to be 24 bit compatible, I don't know if it is yet or not, but the Airport Express, etc. only have a 16 bit DAC inside, it depends on how you hook it up whether it routes it through the internal DAC.
802.11ac just started shipping on some newer products starting last year, but it will take Apple another year or two until ALL products on Apple's products list gets the update. The iDevices haven't yet been updated to 802.11ac yet, that starts this year I would imagine.
Apple dictates a lot of standards to others. That being said, you're right that a lot of content comes in different forms. I suspect that some content is only available in 16 bit/44.1 khz CD "Redbook". I would like to have access to the Redbook files if higher definition is unavailable. And then you are at the mercy or whatever standard the producer mastered the content in the first place. These days most is 24 bits wide but can come in at 44.1, 48, 96, 172 or 192 hz. And iTunes itself will handle 32 bit content at 384 khz at the top end. Again, Apple usually likes standards and conformity for its content, but that may not be completely possible here. Lastly, Mac OS has historically only supported 24 bit wide and 44.1, 48 and 96 khz output from S/PDIF (Toslink) output.
It's unclear if there is a technical limitation or whether its just to deal with the fact that not all receivers can handle 24/176 or 24/192 (although it is part of the standard for Toslink). Currently, the only way to change what a Mac outputs digitally is through the Audio MIDI Setup all, which isn't the easiest place to find or understand for most users. What would be nice would be for the Mac to change whatever output at Toslink to match the content in question instead of forcing you to take only one format and letting the OS re-sample (undesired). This is why that right now. USB to a DAC is the only way to get music unmolested out to iTunes.
Comments
How about NO additional charge for high resolution tracks we already own? Apple should be trying to prop up a dwindling marketplace, not charging more for files it already has in hand.
The whole issue is ultimately up to the record labels. They kind of dictate the ultimately price. I don't think Apple or the record labels are just going to give previous content owners free update to 24 bit. Just a gut feeling. Apple only wants a 30% of gross margin so they can get $.05 per dollar sold. I agree it would be nice, but I doubt it.
What I believe they SHOULD do is as follows:
Original analog recording should be converted to 24 Bit and charge the same amount, but give people the choice of 16 bit or 24 bit due to file size.
Original 16 bit recordings should probably stay at 16 Bit unless they have a way to improve the sound quality, which is doubtful. Upsampling, unless you have good apodising filters or some other means to clean up since up sampling is not always better.
Original 24 bit recordings should be converted (or actually left at 24 bit, since they down sample to 16 bit currently) and they charge the same amount, give people the choice of which to download. It's too bad it took a LONG time before recordings were originally tracked at 24 bit. Even though many studios had the capability, they didn't automatically track at 24/96, etc. because back when converters first hit the market, hard drives were still rather expensive and computers not as fast as they are today. So a lot of studios dragged their feet in terms of tracking at 24 bit. I'm sure a fair number still track at 16 bit just to keep the file sizes smaller.
The problem as to why SACD and DVD-A didn't catch on is that there was little content available and it was priced too expensively (higher cost of the media and record label greed) and most people simply don't have accurate enough systems to play them back. Only the more serious people willing to spend more money really saw the benefit to pay the increased costs. But the masses don't have that kind of money. But with even decent earbuds, headphones, they should be able to tell.
I wouldn't mind paying a higher tier price (within reason) for iTunes Match in order to match and download HD versions of tracks I already own. And iTunes Match should match previously purchased HD music (it does this now in a limited sense but it has had trouble on some tracks I purchased from HD Tracks).
I wouldn't mind paying a higher tier price (within reason) for iTunes Match in order to match and download HD versions of tracks I already own. And iTunes Match should match previously purchased HD music (it does this now in a limited sense but it has had trouble on some tracks I purchased from HD Tracks).
Yeah, iTunes Match has a file size limitation. I forget what it is off the top of my head, I think it's around 200MB file and 24/96 or higher can easily surpass that amount. But I think that would be cool if we could get it to be free if we have iTunes Match.. iTunes Match is a great service. I didn't think it was going to be that good, but it is. I just think they need to increase the file size limitations. I buy off of HD Tracks and others as well, so I know what you mean.
Just send Apple Feedback a note. www.apple.com/feedback that's what I do, and many times they finally get it done. not 100%, but at least we have a chance to raise our voices to the proper team.
Is that really Apple’s responsibility? No.
Yeah, iTunes Match has a file size limitation. I forget what it is off the top of my head, I think it's around 200MB file and 24/96 or higher can easily surpass that amount. But I think that would be cool if we could get it to be free if we have iTunes Match.. iTunes Match is a great service. I didn't think it was going to be that good, but it is. I just think they need to increase the file size limitations. I buy off of HD Tracks and others as well, so I know what you mean.
Just send Apple Feedback a note. www.apple.com/feedback that's what I do, and many times they finally get it done. not 100%, but at least we have a chance to raise our voices to the proper team.
Ah, well that explains why this seems to happen with the 24/192khz files more than anything else.
I had earlier sent Apple's feedback page a lengthy request for HD music and Airplay compatibility. We'll see what happens.
It will be interesting when everything (computers, iDevices, airports) get 802.11ac AND 24 bit.
What do you mean by not charging us for files it already has in it's hands?
Apple’s back end library is already ALAC. He wants Apple to sell the ALAC files directly (and make them freely redownloadable instead of charging for upgrading from existing ones).
Unfortunately, that’s not how bandwidth works.
Though Apple directly selling ALAC is fine with me.
Apple’s back end library is already ALAC. He wants Apple to sell the ALAC files directly (and make them freely redownloadable instead of charging for upgrading from existing ones).
Unfortunately, that’s not how bandwidth works.
Though Apple directly selling ALAC is fine with me.
I guess it's what the record labels will allow. Apple is just the middleman when it comes to content.
I wish I could just $99 a year and download whatever I wanted. B&W has that, but they only have about 25 albums in their collection and they add a couple every month. :-) But it would be cool just to pay $99 for anything off of iTunes, regardless of bit and format. :-) I'm sure the world's bandwidth, Apple's own bandwidth, etc. will get choked unit everyone has their own iTunes servers that are almost identical to Apple's. :-
I guess it's what the record labels will allow. Apple is just the middleman when it comes to content.
I wish I could just $99 a year and download whatever I wanted. B&W has that, but they only have about 25 albums in their collection and they add a couple every month. :-) But it would be cool just to pay $99 for anything off of iTunes, regardless of bit and format. :-) I'm sure the world's bandwidth, Apple's own bandwidth, etc. will get choked unit everyone has their own iTunes servers that are almost identical to Apple's. :-
Here's what I'm looking for from Apple:
1. HD music sold from iTunes Store at least 24/96 khz.
2. An option for HD downloads of existing music through iTunes Match
3. A larger number of songs allowed to match in iTunes Match (at least 100K, Amazon allows 250K). HD music owners often have larger libraries anyway.
4. Compatibility for HD music for Airplay, at least in newer devices like the Airport Express 802.11n third gen and third party receivers (my 2013 Denon receiver already handled ALAC 24/96 on a USB stick) Airplay compatibility with HD music would eliminate most of the need for a separate computer and USB access to a DAC.
5. A pony.
Here's what I'm looking for from Apple:
1. HD music sold from iTunes Store at least 24/96 khz.
2. An option for HD downloads of existing music through iTunes Match
3. A larger number of songs allowed to match in iTunes Match (at least 100K, Amazon allows 250K). HD music owners often have larger libraries anyway.
4. Compatibility for HD music for Airplay, at least in newer devices like the Airport Express 802.11n third gen and third party receivers (my 2013 Denon receiver already handled ALAC 24/96 on a USB stick) Airplay compatibility with HD music would eliminate most of the need for a separate computer and USB access to a DAC.
5. A pony.
Apple can't dictate if they will give only 24/96, that's dependent on the record label. At HD Tracks, they have whatever the label gives them, so it ranges from 44.1 to 192, so far. Some albums, they will just give 24/44.1, but some they'll give you at least one or two choices and it's up to the record label.
I think they will have to increase the file size limit. All iTunes Match actually does is it backs up the data from your hard drive, as long as it's less than 200MB file size, and then you can retrieve it elsewhere, etc. But you aren't buying anything from them per se. So, if you have a 24 bit song that's less than 200MB, it will save that rendition of it. I think they limit to 25,000 tracks less than 200MB per file.
Airplay would have to be 24 bit compatible, I don't know if it is yet or not, but the Airport Express, etc. only have a 16 bit DAC inside, it depends on how you hook it up whether it routes it through the internal DAC.
802.11ac just started shipping on some newer products starting last year, but it will take Apple another year or two until ALL products on Apple's products list gets the update. The iDevices haven't yet been updated to 802.11ac yet, that starts this year I would imagine.
A pony? I don't think Apple is going to give you a Pony. I don't even think Tim Cook has a pony. I think he would have to have one first before they even think of giving people a pony. He might send you a picture of a pony for you to look at. That's about the best they are going to do. But here's a clip from the Seinfeld episode about the Pony remark. Will that make you happy?
Here's what I'm looking for from Apple:
1. HD music sold from iTunes Store at least 24/96 khz.
2. An option for HD downloads of existing music through iTunes Match
3. A larger number of songs allowed to match in iTunes Match (at least 100K, Amazon allows 250K). HD music owners often have larger libraries anyway.
4. Compatibility for HD music for Airplay, at least in newer devices like the Airport Express 802.11n third gen and third party receivers (my 2013 Denon receiver already handled ALAC 24/96 on a USB stick) Airplay compatibility with HD music would eliminate most of the need for a separate computer and USB access to a DAC.
5. A pony.
Good requests. I would add a sixth: a unicorn.
Here's what I'm looking for from Apple:
1. HD music sold from iTunes Store at least 24/96 khz.
2. An option for HD downloads of existing music through iTunes Match
3. A larger number of songs allowed to match in iTunes Match (at least 100K, Amazon allows 250K). HD music owners often have larger libraries anyway.
4. Compatibility for HD music for Airplay, at least in newer devices like the Airport Express 802.11n third gen and third party receivers (my 2013 Denon receiver already handled ALAC 24/96 on a USB stick) Airplay compatibility with HD music would eliminate most of the need for a separate computer and USB access to a DAC.
5. A pony.
Good requests. I would add a sixth: a unicorn.
Apple can't dictate if they will give only 24/96, that's dependent on the record label. At HD Tracks, they have whatever the label gives them, so it ranges from 44.1 to 192, so far. Some albums, they will just give 24/44.1, but some they'll give you at least one or two choices and it's up to the record label.
I think they will have to increase the file size limit. All iTunes Match actually does is it backs up the data from your hard drive, as long as it's less than 200MB file size, and then you can retrieve it elsewhere, etc. But you aren't buying anything from them per se. So, if you have a 24 bit song that's less than 200MB, it will save that rendition of it. I think they limit to 25,000 tracks less than 200MB per file.
Airplay would have to be 24 bit compatible, I don't know if it is yet or not, but the Airport Express, etc. only have a 16 bit DAC inside, it depends on how you hook it up whether it routes it through the internal DAC.
802.11ac just started shipping on some newer products starting last year, but it will take Apple another year or two until ALL products on Apple's products list gets the update. The iDevices haven't yet been updated to 802.11ac yet, that starts this year I would imagine.
Apple dictates a lot of standards to others. That being said, you're right that a lot of content comes in different forms. I suspect that some content is only available in 16 bit/44.1 khz CD "Redbook". I would like to have access to the Redbook files if higher definition is unavailable. And then you are at the mercy or whatever standard the producer mastered the content in the first place. These days most is 24 bits wide but can come in at 44.1, 48, 96, 172 or 192 hz. And iTunes itself will handle 32 bit content at 384 khz at the top end. Again, Apple usually likes standards and conformity for its content, but that may not be completely possible here. Lastly, Mac OS has historically only supported 24 bit wide and 44.1, 48 and 96 khz output from S/PDIF (Toslink) output.
It's unclear if there is a technical limitation or whether its just to deal with the fact that not all receivers can handle 24/176 or 24/192 (although it is part of the standard for Toslink). Currently, the only way to change what a Mac outputs digitally is through the Audio MIDI Setup all, which isn't the easiest place to find or understand for most users. What would be nice would be for the Mac to change whatever output at Toslink to match the content in question instead of forcing you to take only one format and letting the OS re-sample (undesired). This is why that right now. USB to a DAC is the only way to get music unmolested out to iTunes.