Apple's R&D spending grew $303M in March quarter as company invests heavily in future products

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  • Reply 21 of 56
    chipsychipsy Posts: 287member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

     

     

    Yeah but Apple aren't spending money copying vacuum cleaners.


    Well my post makes clear that Samsung's R&D spending indeed is not only their mobile division. But I just thought that the disparity in R&D spending between Apple and Microsoft and Apple and Google was rather striking and weird. The numbers of course don't explain what exactly the money is spend on but just thought it was an interesting observation.

  • Reply 22 of 56
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    I don't buy this, Maps always gets me to where I want to go and frankly I don't need much more than that.
    ireland wrote: »
    This is certainly exciting, but I still say Apple needs to put more effort into improving Maps. The once a year updates aren't suited well to mapping IMO.
    Maps is continually updated. By that I mean the data on the servers is kept fresh, it will intelligently route you around construction for example.
    It's not good enough when you report the same issue three times over a yearly period and receive no reply or no fixes. Heck, forget the notification reply, just fix the damn thing. They should have a couple of people driving around this country checking out the more serious issues being reported. I'd say they have a big backlog of reports here, and I also think the need to redo the UI and options for reports, because currently it sucks.

    Detail those problems here and then mail Tim Cook a link. I'm not sure what your problems are but I've had few if any issues with routing.
  • Reply 23 of 56
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Samsung is a huge company. Don't forget they are setting up to transition to 14 nm which has been a massive money sink for all manufactures. What counts is the costs for products that compete with Apple.
    chipsy wrote: »
    The funny thing is that Samsung actually has a higher R&D budget per year than Apple. In 2013 it spend 10.4 billion in R&D, second highest in the world. This of course is not only the mobile department. But for example Google's spending on R&D was also higher than Apple's in 2013, Google had a R&D budget of 6.8 billion. Microsoft does even better than Google with 9.8 billion. Apple didn't rank in the top 20.
    So weirdly Apple's R&D budget is small when compared with other competitors.

    http://www.strategyand.pwc.com/global/home/what-we-think/reports-white-papers/article-display/2013-global-innovation-1000-study#prettyPhoto
  • Reply 24 of 56
    chipsychipsy Posts: 287member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    Samsung is a huge company. Don't forget they are setting up to transition to 14 nm which has been a massive money sink for all manufactures. What counts is the costs for products that compete with Apple.

    I'm well aware of that. The Samsung mention was actually meant more as a funny anecdote (i hope I'm using that word right :)). As in Samsung spends more but...

    The disparity in R&D between Apple and Microsoft/Google is what was actually more important in the post. It's a rather striking/weird difference.

    I just thought it was an interesting observation.

  • Reply 25 of 56
    They have $150 billion - that's 150 reasons to feel confident in an age where empires rise and fall in a few years. This gives Apple the confidence to take risks without worrying about going under. I believe that beginning in June, apple will enter another golden age. Literally and figuratively. Tim cook has learned a few lessons as CEO, and I like his attitude. He's running Apple the way Apple should be run. You can't run Apple like any other tech company. He gets their culture. Can't wait to see what's coming up next.
  • Reply 26 of 56
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,455member

    Elon took advantage of decades of government funded aerospace vehicle research at 10's of billions of dollar, and not just by the U.S. government at that. I don't think that subtracts from what Space X has accomplished under his leadership.

     

    I'll give him more credit for Tesla, as Elon actually had to build an electric vehicle and a market, and he has done that.

  • Reply 27 of 56
    cferrycferry Posts: 26member
    The R&D budget may be tiny for a company this size, but it has apparently been tightly focused since Steve Jobs returned.
    With this much money in the bank, I kinda wish Apple would re-establish a skunkworks R&D dept. to think different and do basic research in related areas.
    Personally, I'd like to see some major efforts in the physics of light and lenses. Is there a radical new technology that would allow them to create tiny zoom lenses, for instance?
  • Reply 28 of 56
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    cferry wrote: »
    The R&D budget may be tiny for a company this size, but it has apparently been tightly focused since Steve Jobs returned.
    With this much money in the bank, I kinda wish Apple would re-establish a skunkworks R&D dept. to think different and do basic research in related areas.
    Personally, I'd like to see some major efforts in the physics of light and lenses. Is there a radical new technology that would allow them to create tiny zoom lenses, for instance?

    What do you mean re-establish? Seriously asking.

    Another point of view, although I agree with your basic point: The R&D in basic physics, say like optics, nanomaterials or quantum phenomena might always have to pass a "product-use" test, as far as Apple is concerned. Open-ended research like Bell Labs or IBM used to do, might be seen as de-focusing for Apple.

    Bell Labs, captive as they were to a monopoly that famously were not so focused on the end user, but more on defending their AT&T network, were unable to exploit their inventions like the transistor or the microwave laser because the tremendous overhead in bureaucracy—network thinking—which is like empire thinking in geopolitics. It wasn't telephony that benefited from the transistor first, but computers and Japanese consumer electronics.

    I suspect that Apple likes to merge with (acquire) those doing the basic research. Apple's version of basic research is in conceiving and identifying new products, and developing technologies to produce them with their "manufacturing partners." And you have to add, "to enhance people's lives."
  • Reply 29 of 56
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post





    Apple keeps the iteration and failures secret until something is developed enough to reveal. We have no idea what they have been working on, save for rumors and baseless speculation.



    I am not seeing anything like self driving cars, street level views of every road on Earth, high altitude balloon wireless internet covering the entire planet, human sized autonomous robots, contact lens cameras or singularity class AI projects out of Apple. I know that makes me sound like a Google fan but I am really an Apple fan and wish they would take on some really big projects.

  • Reply 30 of 56
    Apple has been starting up whole new categories of devices. They are a startup company, or at least for the last 15 years the company. The company was built on new devices and connections between software and hardware. Apple's real weak spot was exposed when they had the falling out with Google. Apple just does not seem to have anyone at the highest levels of management that understands the Cloud on a technical level.

    Apple's real claim to fame has been how they have used a very target like R&D to drive the tech that they need for what they are building. The efficiency of Apple's R&D is unmatched in by any other company. The hope is that this new broader R&D effort can be used to make products that still are fully developed and break new ground. Sometimes it seems everybody is looking over everyone else's in shoulder in Silicon Valley and they are all looking for someone with the same expertise. Apple's secrecy has helped a lot in this area. I am not concerned about information about products 4 months from introduction. There is no way to keep secrecy and ramp up to sell 15 million products a month at the same time. Secrecy is about keeping new categories under wraps until they are ready for the light of day.
  • Reply 31 of 56
    aicowaicow Posts: 18member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GrangerFX View Post

     



    I am not seeing anything like self driving cars, street level views of every road on Earth, high altitude balloon wireless internet covering the entire planet, human sized autonomous robots, contact lens cameras or singularity class AI projects out of Apple. I know that makes me sound like a Google fan but I am really an Apple fan and wish they would take on some really big projects.


    You won't see that out of Google (except Street View since that's here already) within the foreseeable future, and when you do, Apple may be the one making it accessible.

  • Reply 32 of 56
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,362member

    I think Siri is definitely one of the biggest R&D costs (if it counts as R&D) It's a huuuge, dare I say messy, never ending project. And if they aim to cover more and more languages.. holy crap... And all I'm doing with Siri is to tell her occasionally to set the timer to 8 minutes now and then...

     

    The message from interviews with the big guys like Jony and Schiller etc. that I feel they wanna send out is that "We're just getting started", implying that they have got sooo muuuch new stuff coming. They probably got their heads 20 years into the future. I hope there's room for some fun stuff :)

  • Reply 33 of 56
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    chipsy wrote: »
    I'm well aware of that. The Samsung mention was actually meant more as a funny anecdote (i hope I'm using that word right :)). As in Samsung spends more but...
    The disparity in R&D between Apple and Microsoft/Google is what was actually more important in the post. It's a rather striking/weird difference.
    I just thought it was an interesting observation.

    Well I would worry about Google, MicroSoft unfortunately needs a management team that can demonstrate that they have a clue. I realize that there is a new team in place at MicroSoft but they haven't demonstrated an ability to put all that R&D money to good use. Google I'd worry about!
  • Reply 34 of 56
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    cferry wrote: »
    The R&D budget may be tiny for a company this size, but it has apparently been tightly focused since Steve Jobs returned.
    With this much money in the bank, I kinda wish Apple would re-establish a skunkworks R&D dept. to think different and do basic research in related areas.
    Would we even know if Apple had a SkunkWorks?

    By the way I have full confidence that Apple is involved in long term research. Of course Wall Street doesn't understand the importance of that but frankly screw them.
    Personally, I'd like to see some major efforts in the physics of light and lenses. Is there a radical new technology that would allow them to create tiny zoom lenses, for instance?

    Camera, sensor and mechanism research is non stop in the optics world. I'm not sure if it is worthwhile for Apple to explore this area due to the rather broad research already happening. In Apples case the only way to do better camera wise is to overcome their thin is in problem. Good optics can only be made so small for a given sensor size. To do better they would need to overcome some fundamental physics issues. They have possibly one stop before hitting the wall and that is Quantum Dots, after that I don't see much on the horizon for marketable better sensors.
  • Reply 35 of 56
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    palegolas wrote: »
    I think Siri is definitely one of the biggest R&D costs (if it counts as R&D) It's a huuuge, dare I say messy, never ending project.
    Actually I don't think it is that huge. After all they bought the company responsible for Siri (my understanding) so I don't see the cost of Siri as a huge problem.

    However it isn't Siri precisely that they need to research but rather Artificial Intelligence as AI is the future of operating system technology.
    And if they aim to cover more and more languages.. holy crap... And all I'm doing with Siri is to tell her occasionally to set the timer to 8 minutes now and then...
    I use Siri very little, it needs a lot of work no doubt but you can't expect C3PO the first thing out the door. By the way Siri sitting on Apple servers is not a long term solution for AI, AI needs to move to the users device.
    The message from interviews with the big guys like Jony and Schiller etc. that I feel they wanna send out is that "We're just getting started", implying that they have got sooo muuuch new stuff coming. They probably got their heads 20 years into the future. I hope there's room for some fun stuff :)

    This certainly should be the case as Apple is finally in a position where they can finance all this stuff. iPhone was developed only a short time ago and frankly by a significantly different and smaller company. Now they can finance a whole host of technologies.
  • Reply 36 of 56
    ascii wrote: »
    iqatedo wrote: »
    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">Go Apple, (and Tesla, SpaceX and the others... well, some of the others lol). </span>
    <img alt=":)" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies/1smile.gif" style="line-height:1.4em;">
    I love R&D and the idea of pushing technology forward. But Tesla and SpaceX are telling examples because Elon Musk was able to develop them with only tens of millions, and he got an electric car that's actually better than gas cars, and <b>rockets cheaper than anything any government ever built.</b> Whereas Apple is investing billions for incremental improvements year after year.

    Sometimes I think the world would be better off if not so many people focussed on IT and instead things were a bit more balanced between IT and other tech industries.

    A: The government never built any of those rockets—contractors did.

    2: SpaceX ix able to build them cheaper because they're doing nothing but reinvent the wheel. They're duplicating work that was done 50-55 years ago.

    I wish to hell SpaceX (or someone) would try to do something that would actually bring down launch costs—like Chrysler's SERV from 45 years ago.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SERV

    (Sorry for the bare link, but I refuse to enable Javascript just to hide it.)
  • Reply 37 of 56
    heliahelia Posts: 170member
    Excellent news for Samsung, more things to copy! :)
  • Reply 38 of 56
    foadfoad Posts: 717member

    With Apple being as secretive a company it is, a lot of assumptions are being made as to where their R&D budget is going. Unless you work in specific departments within Apple doing R&D, then no one actually knows. Even within Apple, a lot of R&D projects are compartmentalized.

     

    With regards to Microsoft & Google, a lot of their R&D might be public but I haven't seen large product advances being made. Self driving cars and Glass are all cool but until successful products come of them, then it is all just cool stuff we see.

  • Reply 39 of 56
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,836member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post



    ...2: SpaceX ix able to build them cheaper because they're doing nothing but reinvent the wheel. They're duplicating work that was done 50-55 years ago.



    I wish to hell SpaceX (or someone) would try to do something that would actually bring down launch costs...

     

    Don't understand your post, sorry. Is SpaceX reinventing or duplicating? Well, the aren't reinventing because of course, Elon Musk is fully aware of precedents. Neither are they copying because there is novelty to SpaceX's designs that take advantage of modern knowledge, computing power, materials and engineering practices. The entire business model of SpaceX is built on vastly lower costs to orbit. According to Musk, they can now do it more cheaply than the Chinese. Actual lower costs will mainly be achieved under the SpaceX business model once hardware is being re-used. They are now so close to achieving this.

  • Reply 40 of 56
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post



    I wish to hell SpaceX (or someone) would try to do something that would actually bring down launch costs—like Chrysler's SERV from 45 years ago.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SERV



    (Sorry for the bare link, but I refuse to enable Javascript just to hide it.)

    They are building stages that can land and be reused within hours (that's the plan anyway). Surely that must actually reduce costs?

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