Steve still pissed by MS antitrust deal
This is from a current story on MacCentral. Steve isn't backing down it seems.
[B]"Microsoft's proposed settlement compels schools to adopt Microsoft technology. Most educators, along with Apple, think this is simply wrong. Any settlement must guarantee that schools have the freedom to choose, and this requires that Microsoft pay their penalty in cash, not donated Microsoft software which will cost them only pennies on the dollar. A $1 billion cash penalty represents less than 3 percent of Microsoft's $36 billion cash hoard," said Jobs.[/B}
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: imacSE ]</p>
[B]"Microsoft's proposed settlement compels schools to adopt Microsoft technology. Most educators, along with Apple, think this is simply wrong. Any settlement must guarantee that schools have the freedom to choose, and this requires that Microsoft pay their penalty in cash, not donated Microsoft software which will cost them only pennies on the dollar. A $1 billion cash penalty represents less than 3 percent of Microsoft's $36 billion cash hoard," said Jobs.[/B}
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: imacSE ]</p>
Comments
And could M$ decide to retaliate in some way for this? I thought the agreement to continue development of Office was five years -- from 1997 to 2002. By speaking out against M$, does this mean v.X is the last Office we'll see?
This is like Mike Dell dogging Apple.
<strong>What business is it of his?
This is like Mike Dell dogging Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's his business because Microsoft is trying to corner the education market. If they succeed they will be stealing untold millions of sales from Apple. Therefore, Steve is concerned.
This is like Mike Dell dogging Apple.<hr></blockquote>
Considering that Apple was a part of the antitrust case against M$, it's definitely his business to try and make sure that the penalty actually hurts M$, not helps it corner the market even more.
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Considering that Apple was a part of the antitrust case against M$, it's definitely his business to try and make sure that the penalty actually hurts M$, not helps it corner the market even more.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually it's Justice's business. Steve has an interest, though, and a reasonable point. This being America and all that he has a right to voice his opinion on the matter too.
I thought the only part Apple played was on the witness stand. I don't think they were one of the plaintiffs.
It's not about having the right to speak, we all do and I never claimed otherwise, it's about being in your place to speak. Mike Dell had every legal right to make those comments about Apple, but was it his business?
'Stealing'? How would that be stealing market share from Apple?
You act as if Apple has an inherent right to market share and dominance of education.
<strong>
'Stealing'? How would that be stealing market share from Apple?
You act as if Apple has an inherent right to market share and dominance of education.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I´m no MS basher but this is actually stealing. Consider this: Coca cola and Pepsi both deliver soda machines to colleges. One day the courts decides that Coca cola have used their dominance on the soda market and have asked too much for their colas. They now order to give away free soda machines to more colleges (and here I assume that the pepsi machines are taken away to make the analogy right). I would say that the goverment stole Pepsies market share and gave it to Coca Cola.
Apple don´t have the right to the edu. market but to letting in with the help of your goverment is surely taking away market share from Apple where they are represented.
Jack-booted MS thugs aren't going to bust into art labs and smash Macs with sledgehammers and throw big PCs in their place.
The thing that's in really bad taste, in my opinion, is him commenting on how it's not enough of a percentage of their cash pile. Reminds me of some pissy neighborhlady looking over her fence at you all the time.
<strong>No, to make your analogy fit Coca-Cola would have to give soda machines to colleges that weren't able to afford soda machines in the first place. It's not a zero-sum game.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
It is not a punishment to first take a high price for computer equipment from those who can pay and then give away free equipment to those who can´t. Companies are actually punished here in Europe for doing what your goverment are "forcing" MS to do now. It isn´t allowed to give away good below the price of producing it because it keeps compatition(sp?) away.
MS demanded a too high price for their goods in the first place. Let them pay (with cash) the difference to those who suffered.
'
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It's not about having the right to speak, we all do and I never claimed otherwise, it's about being in your place to speak.</strong><hr></blockquote>
In your place to speak? That's a bit arrogant isn't it? Like I said: Steve clearly has an interest here and a fair point. (Apple's fate was of no real consequence to Mike Dell.) The education market is one place where Apple is still in the game. The government is about to force Apple to compete for that market with another company that will be giving away it's stuff for free. It's supposed to be a punishment for MS but will have the benefit of giving them an enhanced competitive position. I haven't been a fan of this litigation but the courts have ruled against MS. They should be punished not rewarded.
[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>
<strong>Jack-booted MS thugs aren't going to bust into art labs and smash Macs with sledgehammers and throw big PCs in their place.
Hey! I just might pay to see that!
And yes by MS giving computers to schools that would otherwise buy Mac would indeed be stealing mkt share away.
I can't believe people are actually defending this
Thanks, now shut up please.
roger:
[quote]The government is about to force Apple to compete for that market with another company that will be giving away it's stuff for free.<hr></blockquote>
I think the fact that these schools can't afford computers now means that Apple wasn't in their particular market or would be in the forseeable future.
Apple wasn't there, so it's losing nothing. If the agreement entailed replacing Macs with PCs you might have a point.
If Apple wants to "compete" in that school by giving free iMacs then that's groovy, but until then, that school wasn't of Apple's concern.
[quote]It's supposed to be a punishment for MS but will have the benefit of giving them an enhanced competitive position. I haven't been a fan of this litigation but the courts have ruled against MS. They should be punished not rewarded.<hr></blockquote>
Be that as it may, it has nothing to do with Apple at all and that is the crux of my objection to Jobs even making the comments, be they true or not.
Jobs' interest in this is as unrelated as Mike Dell's was in Apple at the time of his scummy comments.
If I send some Jennie-O turkeys to China to feed people, am I unfairly making the market tough for Bryan turkeys?
<strong>Sinewave, you loveable moron, where did I defend the ruling as a good one or contend that it wasn't ultimately beneficial to Microsoft?
Thanks, now shut up please.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
grover claiming that Apple has no right to complain and that your over all apologistic nature to MS when it comes to this is widely known.
I think we all know who really needs to "shut up" in this thread.
[quote]<strong>
I think the fact that these schools can't afford computers now means that Apple wasn't in their particular market or would be in the forseeable future.<hr></blockquote></strong>
Not all schools that MS is giving computers are too poor to afford computers.
[quote]<strong>
Apple wasn't there, so it's losing nothing. If the agreement entailed replacing Macs with PCs you might have a point.<hr></blockquote></strong>
So are you saying none of these schools have Macs now?
[quote]<strong>
If Apple wants to "compete" in that school by giving free iMacs then that's groovy, but until then, that school wasn't of Apple's concern.<hr></blockquote></strong>
Not every company can afford to give away free crap. I find it funny that the same company (MS) is calling giving away software for free (Linux and the GPL) to be Un-American and Marxists but them giving their browser and OS away to markets that they don't have a monopoly in ok?
It's pathetic and hypocritic.
<strong>If Apple wants to "compete" in that school by giving free iMacs then that's groovy, but until then, that school wasn't of Apple's concern. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Uhhh Groverat, if Apple tried to give away free iMacs, that would NOT be "groovy" - it would be ILLEGAL and a complete violation of US anti-trust laws, which is why it is ironic that the so-called "punishment" to Microsoft would be to allow them to do something which is ILLEGAL.
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Uhhh Groverat, if Apple tried to give away free iMacs, that would NOT be "groovy" - it would be ILLEGAL and a complete violation of US anti-trust laws, which is why it is ironic that the so-called "punishment" to Microsoft would be to allow them to do something which is ILLEGAL.</strong><hr></blockquote>
groverat's ideals
Everything MS does = Good and right
Everything anyone else does = Wrong and Bad
We have ourselves a zealot here.
Apple has the right to complain, sure, but that doesn't mean Jobs should be saying the things he is saying.
How in hell does this make me an MS apologist?
I like how you just switched to it being "widely known" instead of providing any kind of quote or evidence. You're just willing it, eh?
[quote]Not all schools that MS is giving computers are too poor to afford computers.<hr></blockquote>
As far as I know the terms of the agreement called for giving the computers to schools that didn't have them.
[quote]So are you saying none of these schools have Macs now? MS even tried to fix this problem by installing VPC all on currents Macs in use.<hr></blockquote>
?
What school is this?
Links?
[quote]Uhhh Groverat, if Apple tried to give away free iMacs, that would NOT be "groovy" - it would be ILLEGAL and a complete violation of US anti-trust laws, which is why it is ironic that the so-called "punishment" to Microsoft would be to allow them to do something which is ILLEGAL.<hr></blockquote>
That's bullshit. Apple could give away iMacs all day if it wanted. It could sell them for $1 apiece if they wanted.
Product give-aways are in violation of anti-trust laws? ahhahaha
[quote]We have ourselves a zealot here.<hr></blockquote>
<strong>
Apple has the right to complain, sure, but that doesn't mean Jobs should be saying the things he is saying.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh your going from he has no right to complain.. it isn't his business to "He shouldn't be saying the things he is saying" Why shouldn't he? They are FACTS. He isn't making up FUD (like saying the GPL is un-american)
[quote]<strong>
How in hell does this make me an MS apologist?
<hr></blockquote></strong>
Your present and past wordage about MS's practices and how you defend even the slimiest of them makes you a apologist.
[quote]<strong>
As far as I know the terms of the agreement called for giving the computers to schools that didn't have them.<hr></blockquote></strong>
Then when Steve made a big deal about how Macs that are there all ready .. and how they would be supported MS claimed to try be trying to make a deal with the makers of VPC to run Windows emulators on these Macs..
I can't go "from" something I never said. Take the time to read my posts, please. I never said he didn't have the right, my second post in the thread clears this up, what is it that keeps you from understanding such well-established things?
It's not his place, that's what I'm saying. It's in bad taste, that's what I'm saying. It's like Mike Dell saying that if he was in control of Apple he'd just sell and give the shareholder's money back. When he said this it was his "right" and Apple was doing very badly, does that mean it was in good taste?
[quote]Your present and past wordage about MS's practices and how you defend even the slimiest of them makes you a apologist.<hr></blockquote>
In your perception, because I dare admit to liking Windows and will defend MS against stupid attacks I am a zealot?
You are a genius.
[quote]Then when Steve made a big deal about how Macs that are there all ready .. and how they would be supported MS claimed to try be trying to make a deal with the makers of VPC to run Windows emulators on these Macs..<hr></blockquote>
Links?
Any kind of proof for this at all?
I have never heard of this, and if it is true I'll be more than happy to accept that Apple does have a vested interest in this process. Until then, Apple doesn't.