1) How does that affect security? Meaning, is Android with multiple user accounts really just as secure as iOS? It seems like we see inventive and obscure ways to get into iPhone user data every single year so I wonder if adding user accounts would just make this worse.
2) Doesn't think require a complete overall in each app for this to work? If that's the case then how does Apple make the transfer to all this? Perhaps an education-based system which they can roll out first and then allow it to filter to the rest of the system after the kinks are worked out?
3) I have no problem with this idea even though I think it' more complex than people think, but as previously noted by someone else (@island hermit?) Apple probably wants to keep it as one device per person.
By secure, do you mean, can other users see data of any other user? Not if they are in their own account. It's totally partitioned. But switching to other user accounts is dead simple. You just select your own account photo from the notification drop down and get to a screen from which you can select another account I don't have any passwords set on my tablet and don't have one around to check, but I'd expect that selecting another account would prompt me for a password if one is set for that account. On my tablet, I just switch to another account. Also, the main user can set root authority on other accounts (if rooted). If not set, some functions/apps that depend on root will not work on that account.
When Google introduced this, it was all seamless for the apps (except some apps). Essentially, prior to adding multi-user accounts, all the data was associated in the /data/data directory. Since there was just one account, all the data was there. With multiuser, there are simply different partitions for each user and data/data is a link to the specific account's partition. Some of what I just said may be a little off. It's been a while since I had to go hunting for this. But the gist is essentially accurate. The OS maintained backward compatibility with apps.
It was totally seamless for users and apps. Now to the caveat. This obviously did break some apps. I have an app that backs up apps along with states. That app only works with the primary account since it can't access any of the other partitions - even with root access. I can backup the other accounts data, but I do it manually and it's a real pain. So utility/tool type of apps that depend on certain system files don't work. Maybe the back up app works now. I should try it.
There is a problem with Play Store accounts. But it has nothing really to do with the multi-user accounts on a tablet. But it does impact it. I made the mistake of buying all my software on my account (tied to my gmail address). Now if I want my wife and kids to use the apps, I need to add my account as a secondary email account and then they can download all the apps I had paid for. Google should have restricted this to purely the Play Store. Instead, it effectively creates a full fledged account for the entire device. Which means that it can sync all my gmail, photos etc on to one of my family's phone. I have disabled syncing for all the services on my account on their devices, but that's something they can enable at any time. Now, I don't have a family which would do that. I don't mind my wife reading my emails, but I don't want my kids doing that. But it's still extremely annoying and disconcerting that something this obvious would not get fixed immediately - let alone ignored. And I can certainly see how this could be an issue for some folks - especially going through troubled marriages or ones lacking in trust.
I haven't used iTunes for years now (thankfully), so I don't know remember how this works. But if I'm not mistaken, it just uses the iTunes Id for purchases and other devices synced to that Id don't get to see the iCloud information of the primary user of iTunes.
By secure, do you mean, can other users see data of any other user? Not if they are in their own account. It's totally partitioned. But switching to other user accounts is dead simple. You just select your own account photo from the notification drop down and get to a screen from which you can select another account I don't have any passwords set on my tablet and don't have one around to check, but I'd expect that selecting another account would prompt me for a password if one is set for that account. On my tablet, I just switch to another account. Also, the main user can set root authority on other accounts (if rooted). If not set, some functions/apps that depend on root will not work on that account.
1) I'm under the impression that most Android-based phones come with less than sufficient on-board storage which forces users to buy a MicroSD card to store the bulk of their apps and content. I'm also under the impression that this can't be protected for each user account. Is any of that accurate?
2) When you say "partitions" do you actually mean the traditional logical partitions for drives as opposed to just using encryptions and volumes like with different users on Mac OS X?
1) I'm under the impression that most Android-based phones come with less than sufficient on-board storage which forces users to buy a MicroSD card to store the bulk of their apps and content. I'm also under the impression that this can't be protected for each user account. Is any of that accurate?
2) When you say "partitions" do you actually mean the traditional logical partitions for drives as opposed to just using encryptions and volumes like with different users on Mac OS X?
2) "Partition" is a poor choice of word and really means "directory." Properly coded apps access their private data directory using an API call instead of hard-coding the absolute path. Thus it should make no difference to the app where the data directory actually lives in the filesystem.
1) I'm under the impression that most Android-based phones come with less than sufficient on-board storage which forces users to buy a MicroSD card to store the bulk of their apps and content. I'm also under the impression that this can't be protected for each user account. Is any of that accurate?
2) When you say "partitions" do you actually mean the traditional logical partitions for drives as opposed to just using encryptions and volumes like with different users on Mac OS X?
App data can't be stored on external Storage cards. Especially after KitKat (another bad decision by Google). I have no tablet other than a Nexus (which to my eternal chagrin) has no external storage. I have no idea what Samsung did with multiple accounts on their tablets (if they have an SD Card in the first place). But I believe that Samsung phones allow you to store app data on external storage cards. If you buy a phone with at least 16GB of internal storage app data is unlikely to present a problem in terms of running out of space. I personally never buy a device with less than 32GB of internal storage if there is no external storage. External storage is typically used to store media, music, movies etc. I use an OTG cable and connect it to a USB flash drive to transfer media if I need to. But it's no substitute for an SD card and Google's jihad against it annoys me no end. It's good to see the new Moto E come with external storage - but of course with 4GB of internal storage, there was no option. I hope the next version of the Moto X comes with external storage. Last year the HTC One came with 32GB internals storage as the lowest end. My LG G2 comes with no less than 32 GB. This year's HTC One comes with 16GB and an SD card. What I'd like is 32GB with an SD card. But yes, the SD cards are formatted using FAT32 and there is absolutely no protection per user on that.
These are physical partitions and they are indeed protected. The account can only see his or her mounted disk - unless of course you are root. In which case, you can traverse through all the mounted disks.
I'm not saying there aren't any use cases for having side by side apps, but are there enough use cases and enough good use cases to change the entire paradigm of the iPad and iPhone? Everyone is imagining how this would work on an iPad, but do you really think a major new feature like this would simply be omitted from the iPhone? How would the user experience be of watching a video while typing an email on an iPhone? I'm still not convinced.
It wouldn't change the usage for everyone, it would just be an optional extra. If you never used it, you'd just use the iPad as normal. It wouldn't make sense on the iPhone just like the iPad's extra toolbars and columns don't.
An alternative option could have been a picture in picture view (say 1/4 size for pixel scaling) enabled using a corner swipe and it can toggle between main and popup views by tapping but overlapping content is too limiting.
Another possibility is hiding an app behind another and having a toggle or opacity/crop slider to quickly jump back and forth between them.
I think the center split is the most productive and useful:
That's the twitter and Facebook apps open side by side. This allows you to update both at the same time and copy paste content between them. The keyboard would open at the bottom full size and text would go into the active box.
To switch apps, you could do 4-finger swipe up in one of the contexts and use multi-tasking view:
You could have your photos app on one side and flickr on the other to choose which photos you want to upload.
I'd say having a fixed center split is best. Microsoft tried to have a resizable view but it's stepped. Samsung's is like this too, it doesn't redraw until you let go. It should be continuously scalable if you do that:
[VIDEO]
They even have the overlapping windows there and that's all wrong. You only need to have two at once and it doesn't need those complex options. Resizing each side has limited use.
To get rid of the bar, you can just hold the bar until it activates and slide left/right to get rid of the app you don't want any more.
Apps like some games that can only load in landscape are a bit awkward but they'd just have to have black bars top and bottom. This lets you play Angry Birds while you watch sports. This would actually be a use case for allowing the split in portrait as both video and games are widescreen.
There aren't too many use cases for it but sometimes while playing games, I get stuck and it's nice to look up a walkthrough or see a video of someone playing. If you quit some games, they put you out of the level so it would be good to just do the split gesture (like I say, it can be tap the top center bezel and then press the center of the screen and the split will animate into place), have the game shuffle to one side and load a guide up in a browser. Dismiss it when done. Anyone who never finds a use for it never has to change the way they use the iPad.
I'd say having a fixed center split is best. Microsoft tried to have a resizable view but it's stepped. Samsung's is like this too, it doesn't redraw until you let go. It should be continuously scalable if you do that:
Regarding MS's implementation. That is incorrect. It hasn't been "stepped" since windows 8. Windows 8.1 and beyond, the views are fully resizable and depending on your resolution and your options, you can have as many as 3 apps viewed per screen.
People will probably say Apple is just 'copying the Surface' while ignoring that the surface sold approx. 4 units total. It's ok for Apple to do things others do; I think they'll probably do a better job at most things others attempt.
Comments
We'll be able to do what the Note does and what the Surface does.
They need Scott Forestall to bring back software innovation.
Someone get a towel to wipe up all this sarcasm.
Someone get a towel to wipe up all this sarcasm.
This wouldn't have happened when Forstall was alive here!
1) How does that affect security? Meaning, is Android with multiple user accounts really just as secure as iOS? It seems like we see inventive and obscure ways to get into iPhone user data every single year so I wonder if adding user accounts would just make this worse.
2) Doesn't think require a complete overall in each app for this to work? If that's the case then how does Apple make the transfer to all this? Perhaps an education-based system which they can roll out first and then allow it to filter to the rest of the system after the kinks are worked out?
3) I have no problem with this idea even though I think it' more complex than people think, but as previously noted by someone else (@island hermit?) Apple probably wants to keep it as one device per person.
By secure, do you mean, can other users see data of any other user? Not if they are in their own account. It's totally partitioned. But switching to other user accounts is dead simple. You just select your own account photo from the notification drop down and get to a screen from which you can select another account I don't have any passwords set on my tablet and don't have one around to check, but I'd expect that selecting another account would prompt me for a password if one is set for that account. On my tablet, I just switch to another account. Also, the main user can set root authority on other accounts (if rooted). If not set, some functions/apps that depend on root will not work on that account.
When Google introduced this, it was all seamless for the apps (except some apps). Essentially, prior to adding multi-user accounts, all the data was associated in the /data/data directory. Since there was just one account, all the data was there. With multiuser, there are simply different partitions for each user and data/data is a link to the specific account's partition. Some of what I just said may be a little off. It's been a while since I had to go hunting for this. But the gist is essentially accurate. The OS maintained backward compatibility with apps.
It was totally seamless for users and apps. Now to the caveat. This obviously did break some apps. I have an app that backs up apps along with states. That app only works with the primary account since it can't access any of the other partitions - even with root access. I can backup the other accounts data, but I do it manually and it's a real pain. So utility/tool type of apps that depend on certain system files don't work. Maybe the back up app works now. I should try it.
There is a problem with Play Store accounts. But it has nothing really to do with the multi-user accounts on a tablet. But it does impact it. I made the mistake of buying all my software on my account (tied to my gmail address). Now if I want my wife and kids to use the apps, I need to add my account as a secondary email account and then they can download all the apps I had paid for. Google should have restricted this to purely the Play Store. Instead, it effectively creates a full fledged account for the entire device. Which means that it can sync all my gmail, photos etc on to one of my family's phone. I have disabled syncing for all the services on my account on their devices, but that's something they can enable at any time. Now, I don't have a family which would do that. I don't mind my wife reading my emails, but I don't want my kids doing that. But it's still extremely annoying and disconcerting that something this obvious would not get fixed immediately - let alone ignored. And I can certainly see how this could be an issue for some folks - especially going through troubled marriages or ones lacking in trust.
I haven't used iTunes for years now (thankfully), so I don't know remember how this works. But if I'm not mistaken, it just uses the iTunes Id for purchases and other devices synced to that Id don't get to see the iCloud information of the primary user of iTunes.
1) I'm under the impression that most Android-based phones come with less than sufficient on-board storage which forces users to buy a MicroSD card to store the bulk of their apps and content. I'm also under the impression that this can't be protected for each user account. Is any of that accurate?
2) When you say "partitions" do you actually mean the traditional logical partitions for drives as opposed to just using encryptions and volumes like with different users on Mac OS X?
1) I'm under the impression that most Android-based phones come with less than sufficient on-board storage which forces users to buy a MicroSD card to store the bulk of their apps and content. I'm also under the impression that this can't be protected for each user account. Is any of that accurate?
2) When you say "partitions" do you actually mean the traditional logical partitions for drives as opposed to just using encryptions and volumes like with different users on Mac OS X?
2) "Partition" is a poor choice of word and really means "directory." Properly coded apps access their private data directory using an API call instead of hard-coding the absolute path. Thus it should make no difference to the app where the data directory actually lives in the filesystem.
edit: misread your first question.
1) I'm under the impression that most Android-based phones come with less than sufficient on-board storage which forces users to buy a MicroSD card to store the bulk of their apps and content. I'm also under the impression that this can't be protected for each user account. Is any of that accurate?
2) When you say "partitions" do you actually mean the traditional logical partitions for drives as opposed to just using encryptions and volumes like with different users on Mac OS X?
App data can't be stored on external Storage cards. Especially after KitKat (another bad decision by Google). I have no tablet other than a Nexus (which to my eternal chagrin) has no external storage. I have no idea what Samsung did with multiple accounts on their tablets (if they have an SD Card in the first place). But I believe that Samsung phones allow you to store app data on external storage cards. If you buy a phone with at least 16GB of internal storage app data is unlikely to present a problem in terms of running out of space. I personally never buy a device with less than 32GB of internal storage if there is no external storage. External storage is typically used to store media, music, movies etc. I use an OTG cable and connect it to a USB flash drive to transfer media if I need to. But it's no substitute for an SD card and Google's jihad against it annoys me no end. It's good to see the new Moto E come with external storage - but of course with 4GB of internal storage, there was no option. I hope the next version of the Moto X comes with external storage. Last year the HTC One came with 32GB internals storage as the lowest end. My LG G2 comes with no less than 32 GB. This year's HTC One comes with 16GB and an SD card. What I'd like is 32GB with an SD card. But yes, the SD cards are formatted using FAT32 and there is absolutely no protection per user on that.
These are physical partitions and they are indeed protected. The account can only see his or her mounted disk - unless of course you are root. In which case, you can traverse through all the mounted disks.
I carry this very useful accessory with me - http://www.meenova.com/st/p/m3r.html. ; It looks cheap (and it is), but it does the job.
It wouldn't change the usage for everyone, it would just be an optional extra. If you never used it, you'd just use the iPad as normal. It wouldn't make sense on the iPhone just like the iPad's extra toolbars and columns don't.
An alternative option could have been a picture in picture view (say 1/4 size for pixel scaling) enabled using a corner swipe and it can toggle between main and popup views by tapping but overlapping content is too limiting.
Another possibility is hiding an app behind another and having a toggle or opacity/crop slider to quickly jump back and forth between them.
I think the center split is the most productive and useful:
That's the twitter and Facebook apps open side by side. This allows you to update both at the same time and copy paste content between them. The keyboard would open at the bottom full size and text would go into the active box.
To switch apps, you could do 4-finger swipe up in one of the contexts and use multi-tasking view:
You could have your photos app on one side and flickr on the other to choose which photos you want to upload.
I'd say having a fixed center split is best. Microsoft tried to have a resizable view but it's stepped. Samsung's is like this too, it doesn't redraw until you let go. It should be continuously scalable if you do that:
[VIDEO]
They even have the overlapping windows there and that's all wrong. You only need to have two at once and it doesn't need those complex options. Resizing each side has limited use.
To get rid of the bar, you can just hold the bar until it activates and slide left/right to get rid of the app you don't want any more.
Apps like some games that can only load in landscape are a bit awkward but they'd just have to have black bars top and bottom. This lets you play Angry Birds while you watch sports. This would actually be a use case for allowing the split in portrait as both video and games are widescreen.
There aren't too many use cases for it but sometimes while playing games, I get stuck and it's nice to look up a walkthrough or see a video of someone playing. If you quit some games, they put you out of the level so it would be good to just do the split gesture (like I say, it can be tap the top center bezel and then press the center of the screen and the split will animate into place), have the game shuffle to one side and load a guide up in a browser. Dismiss it when done. Anyone who never finds a use for it never has to change the way they use the iPad.
I'd say having a fixed center split is best. Microsoft tried to have a resizable view but it's stepped. Samsung's is like this too, it doesn't redraw until you let go. It should be continuously scalable if you do that:
Regarding MS's implementation. That is incorrect. It hasn't been "stepped" since windows 8. Windows 8.1 and beyond, the views are fully resizable and depending on your resolution and your options, you can have as many as 3 apps viewed per screen.
three apps split on the screen? i didnt know that...interesting
Actually, I found out today, that after windows 8.1 update 1 - it's possible to have as many as 4 depending on your resolution...