I will be getting a new tower at work... Yum! And these new beasts are far better than the old, and they even include a new Crystal Clear rebate promotion!
I guess I can wait a while until I buy my new G5 for home, though...
I think you're all being a bit hard on Apple here. Duel 1Ghz machines are going to fly. There is a big difference in these as opposed to other recent machines. Each item might seem like a small change but the cumulative effect is going to be very good.
To really judge this macning we need some benchmarks.
<strong>Wow. Apple sure knows how to beat a dead horse. I won't fall for it though. These absolutely must be a stop-gap! My guess is that the G5 won't be ready till around March and Apple knows this. The PowerMacs went 6 or 7 months without an update, and Apple had to do something. At least this is what I'm hoping is true. I still don't get it. I was told the G5 would be here 1st quarter but things aren't looking up. Not even Apollo or DDR RAM to feed us over. Can you say lame?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I hope the G5s come soon, but I'm getting the horrible feeling that it will be Apollos at MWNY and G5s at MWSF 2003. Can somebody reassure me?
I hope the G5s come soon, but I'm getting the horrible feeling that it will be Apollos at MWNY and G5s at MWSF 2003. Can somebody reassure me? </strong><hr></blockquote>
I also wonder how good the GeForce4MX really is? Will it beat a GF3 Ti500?
I remember reading benchmarks when nVidia released the GeForce2MX which showed that the DDR version of the GeForce1 was actually faster than the GF2MX.
I heard some speculation that this GF4MX is not the "real" GF4 (supposedly built on the NV25 core) but rather built on the NV17 core.
I guess we'll se when nVidia announces the whole lineup in feb.
<strong>Am I wrong or did the price slip on the high-end model. Wasn't the DP800 more than $3000 yesterday?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The price slipped by $500. The Dual 800 was $3499
SOMETHING IS ROTTEN IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.
Albeit a strong stop-gap, I have a feeling that's all this update is. Something is amiss at Motorola, or else Apple wouldn't have taken the measures it did today. Apple knows that it's been quite a while since a PowerMac update, so they had to do somethine to quiet the outcry from users (including many of us here) who wanted to practically pillage Cupertino in disgust. They've updated the machines, but here's what's hinky (to quote the Fugitive) to me:
1) The bottom PowerMac now has a 67Mhz less processor than the top machine yesterday:
Apple's trend for updates has been to knock the top-end single-chip machine *yesterday* to the bottom end *today.* This time, they made it an 800Mhz chip instead of an 867Mhz. That tells me that they must have an assload of 800Mhz chips that they need to get rid of (left over from *yesterday's* dualies), but since they badly needed to upgrade the line as well, they needed figure out what to do with them.
2) The dualie has higher Mhz processors than the top single-chip machine.
This, I think, is the single actual legitimate achievement in today's updates. Apple knows where things stand with Motorola, so I think Apple figured they should go for the gusto, just in case. The dual 1Ghz is an AWESOME machine, and can carry the PowerMac line through MWNY in July if needs be. If the G5 is ready by MWTY, then I think it'll be released. If it's NOT, these new machines can hold the PowerMac line until MWNY when the G5's would probably be available.
3) The top single-chip machine now has 66Mhz more than before.
All I have to say is WTF!? This is all they've got? This is what strikes me the most as being a stop-gap for things to come. Think about it: the previous update went from the top end being 733Mhz to 867 Mhz = 134Mhz gain. Before that, 500Mhz to 733Mhz = 233Mhz jump.
This REALLY makes me think something is amiss.
4) Prices on all three lines dropped to healthy levels.
This is the catch-all consolation AND trend-follower. Hey, if Apple can't release what they REALLY want to release, drop the prices!
Also, after the new iMac was released, the PowerMacs needed a SERIOUS overhauling of their pricing. That's what Apple gave us. These machines now seem right in line/comparison to their dominance over the iMac. I also think that whenever the G5's are released, they'll be priced in the same feature-to-price comparison.
I dunno. I just have a strange feeling in my gut about this one. Something just isn't right about all this. I have to admit, though, that the 1Ghz dualie is the "cheap hooker" of the Macs right now: Fast, powerful, and reasonably priced for what you get.
Memory is what is lacking in these new machines. No DDR, still only 1.5GB max. These _have_ to be short-lived. Here's my theory - there is no G5, Motorola can't make it work. But Apple had a new mobo design with DDR etc. ready to go for the G5. I've been told the design would have to be changed significantly to stick G4s in place of G5s (anybody know if that is really true?). The delay is because Apple is scrambling to retro-design the new mobo to put G4s on it. In 3 months or so we will see machines with the new mobo, PC150 DDR or even PC200 DDR, Gigawire, USB 2.0, etc., but still with only Apollo G4s running 1.0-1.4 GHz.
[quote]<strong>2) The dualie has higher Mhz processors than the top single-chip machine.
This, I think, is the single actual legitimate achievement in today's updates. Apple knows where things stand with Motorola, so I think Apple figured they should go for the gusto, just in case. The dual 1Ghz is an AWESOME machine, and can carry the PowerMac line through MWNY in July if needs be. If the G5 is ready by MWTY, then I think it'll be released. If it's NOT, these new machines can hold the PowerMac line until MWNY when the G5's would probably be available.
3) The top single-chip machine now has 66Mhz more than before.
All I have to say is WTF!? This is all they've got? This is what strikes me the most as being a stop-gap for things to come. Think about it: the previous update went from the top end being 733Mhz to 867 Mhz = 134Mhz gain. Before that, 500Mhz to 733Mhz = 233Mhz jump.
This REALLY makes me think something is amiss.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have to wonder why you consider the first good news and the second bad news. Taken together (along with the lower price of the dual model), it means Apple has a healthy supply of 933MHz chips, and they're swimming in GHz chips. This is good news: It means there are faster chips rolling off the lines in some quantity, and good yields. This means that they might be able to speedbump the line one more time before they get revamped with a processor on a .13u process (whether G4 or G5) later this year.
The DDR situation is confusing. Either Apple is working with Mot on a G4 variant with a different frontside bus, or Apple has found some other way around the problem (unlikely), or the G5 is MWNY bound, based on rumors of the appearance of DDR boards over the last 6-7 months.
Or else, we're stuck with PC133 until 2003, which is not something I really want to think about.
Your daily mac said they got a letter saying g5 late 2002. Maybe moki has been right all along. I am still hoping though we get the g5 as soon as posssible
[quote]We have been working really hard here lately on the last G4 PowerMac upgrade ever.<hr></blockquote>
'... working really hard ...' doing what? Writing new product pages making us believe these Mac are actually better than they are? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Looks to me like their sources are the 7-year old son of the janitor at infinite loop.
<strong>Your daily mac said they got a letter saying g5 late 2002. Maybe moki has been right all along. I am still hoping though we get the g5 as soon as posssible</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm sure we will get it as soon as possible. I doubt Apple would sit on it once it's done.
don't bust the janitor, he does what he can man :cool: </strong><hr></blockquote>
If you know him, please suggest to him his son shouldn't be writing letters to rumor sites <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
"ONLY 1.5 GB" Why would you need more than 1.5 GB of RAM? My current machine (which I will be replacing SOON! :cool: ) only has 4GB of HDD space!! (Yes it's that old...beige G3 desktop)
I'm sure Apple is eager to get the price of the high end Mac back up to $3499. How well do you guys think the dual GHZ machine would have sold at $3499? If it would have sold fairly well than I don't think they would have dropped the price to $2999 unless the G5 was going to be out within a few months and they could have a killer machine for $3499 again.
There is no way Apple can raise the price back up above $2999 until the G4 is gone. Even if they speedbumped to 1.2 or 1.3 GHZ it still would be awkward. I'm sure Apple only lowers the prices as a very last measure. So either they felt the dual GHZ would not sell at $3499 and they had absolutely no choice, OR, the G5 is right around the corner and Apple felt they could get better volumes sales by temporarily lowering the price and squeezing as much life at out of the G4 before it dies.
If Apple had a single or dual 1.5 GHZ G5 for sale, you can bet it would and will be $3499.
Comments
<strong>G5 at Seybold or MWTY? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
It's not going to happen. These things aren't even going to be in foreign countries until Seybold or MWTY.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
I could have a Dual 1Giger on my desk in 5 days
[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Alpha Mac ]</p>
I guess I can wait a while until I buy my new G5 for home, though...
To really judge this macning we need some benchmarks.
<strong>Wow. Apple sure knows how to beat a dead horse. I won't fall for it though. These absolutely must be a stop-gap! My guess is that the G5 won't be ready till around March and Apple knows this. The PowerMacs went 6 or 7 months without an update, and Apple had to do something. At least this is what I'm hoping is true. I still don't get it. I was told the G5 would be here 1st quarter but things aren't looking up. Not even Apollo or DDR RAM to feed us over. Can you say lame?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I hope the G5s come soon, but I'm getting the horrible feeling that it will be Apollos at MWNY and G5s at MWSF 2003. Can somebody reassure me?
<strong>
I hope the G5s come soon, but I'm getting the horrible feeling that it will be Apollos at MWNY and G5s at MWSF 2003. Can somebody reassure me?
That sounds quite accurate to me...
I also wonder how good the GeForce4MX really is? Will it beat a GF3 Ti500?
I remember reading benchmarks when nVidia released the GeForce2MX which showed that the DDR version of the GeForce1 was actually faster than the GF2MX.
I heard some speculation that this GF4MX is not the "real" GF4 (supposedly built on the NV25 core) but rather built on the NV17 core.
I guess we'll se when nVidia announces the whole lineup in feb.
<strong>Am I wrong or did the price slip on the high-end model. Wasn't the DP800 more than $3000 yesterday?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The price slipped by $500. The Dual 800 was $3499
SOMETHING IS ROTTEN IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.
Albeit a strong stop-gap, I have a feeling that's all this update is. Something is amiss at Motorola, or else Apple wouldn't have taken the measures it did today. Apple knows that it's been quite a while since a PowerMac update, so they had to do somethine to quiet the outcry from users (including many of us here) who wanted to practically pillage Cupertino in disgust. They've updated the machines, but here's what's hinky (to quote the Fugitive) to me:
1) The bottom PowerMac now has a 67Mhz less processor than the top machine yesterday:
Apple's trend for updates has been to knock the top-end single-chip machine *yesterday* to the bottom end *today.* This time, they made it an 800Mhz chip instead of an 867Mhz. That tells me that they must have an assload of 800Mhz chips that they need to get rid of (left over from *yesterday's* dualies), but since they badly needed to upgrade the line as well, they needed figure out what to do with them.
2) The dualie has higher Mhz processors than the top single-chip machine.
This, I think, is the single actual legitimate achievement in today's updates. Apple knows where things stand with Motorola, so I think Apple figured they should go for the gusto, just in case. The dual 1Ghz is an AWESOME machine, and can carry the PowerMac line through MWNY in July if needs be. If the G5 is ready by MWTY, then I think it'll be released. If it's NOT, these new machines can hold the PowerMac line until MWNY when the G5's would probably be available.
3) The top single-chip machine now has 66Mhz more than before.
All I have to say is WTF!? This is all they've got? This is what strikes me the most as being a stop-gap for things to come. Think about it: the previous update went from the top end being 733Mhz to 867 Mhz = 134Mhz gain. Before that, 500Mhz to 733Mhz = 233Mhz jump.
This REALLY makes me think something is amiss.
4) Prices on all three lines dropped to healthy levels.
This is the catch-all consolation AND trend-follower. Hey, if Apple can't release what they REALLY want to release, drop the prices!
Also, after the new iMac was released, the PowerMacs needed a SERIOUS overhauling of their pricing. That's what Apple gave us. These machines now seem right in line/comparison to their dominance over the iMac. I also think that whenever the G5's are released, they'll be priced in the same feature-to-price comparison.
I dunno. I just have a strange feeling in my gut about this one. Something just isn't right about all this. I have to admit, though, that the 1Ghz dualie is the "cheap hooker" of the Macs right now: Fast, powerful, and reasonably priced for what you get.
[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: CosmoNut ]</p>
Bob
This, I think, is the single actual legitimate achievement in today's updates. Apple knows where things stand with Motorola, so I think Apple figured they should go for the gusto, just in case. The dual 1Ghz is an AWESOME machine, and can carry the PowerMac line through MWNY in July if needs be. If the G5 is ready by MWTY, then I think it'll be released. If it's NOT, these new machines can hold the PowerMac line until MWNY when the G5's would probably be available.
3) The top single-chip machine now has 66Mhz more than before.
All I have to say is WTF!? This is all they've got? This is what strikes me the most as being a stop-gap for things to come. Think about it: the previous update went from the top end being 733Mhz to 867 Mhz = 134Mhz gain. Before that, 500Mhz to 733Mhz = 233Mhz jump.
This REALLY makes me think something is amiss.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have to wonder why you consider the first good news and the second bad news. Taken together (along with the lower price of the dual model), it means Apple has a healthy supply of 933MHz chips, and they're swimming in GHz chips. This is good news: It means there are faster chips rolling off the lines in some quantity, and good yields. This means that they might be able to speedbump the line one more time before they get revamped with a processor on a .13u process (whether G4 or G5) later this year.
The DDR situation is confusing. Either Apple is working with Mot on a G4 variant with a different frontside bus, or Apple has found some other way around the problem (unlikely), or the G5 is MWNY bound, based on rumors of the appearance of DDR boards over the last 6-7 months.
Or else, we're stuck with PC133 until 2003, which is not something I really want to think about.
<strong>Your daily mac said they got a letter saying g5 late 2002.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Did you mean this letter?
<a href="http://www.yourdailymac.com/g4update.html"; target="_blank">http://www.yourdailymac.com/g4update.html</a>;
[quote]We have been working really hard here lately on the last G4 PowerMac upgrade ever.<hr></blockquote>
'... working really hard ...' doing what? Writing new product pages making us believe these Mac are actually better than they are? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Looks to me like their sources are the 7-year old son of the janitor at infinite loop.
<strong>Your daily mac said they got a letter saying g5 late 2002. Maybe moki has been right all along. I am still hoping though we get the g5 as soon as posssible</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm sure we will get it as soon as possible. I doubt Apple would sit on it once it's done.
<strong>Looks to me like their sources are the 7-year old son of the janitor at infinite loop.</strong><hr></blockquote>
don't bust the janitor, he does what he can man :cool:
I'll bet Leonis is none to thrilled about these new towers...
[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: breakskull ]</p>
<strong>
don't bust the janitor, he does what he can man :cool: </strong><hr></blockquote>
If you know him, please suggest to him his son shouldn't be writing letters to rumor sites <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
<strong> still only 1.5GB max.
Bob</strong><hr></blockquote>
"ONLY 1.5 GB" Why would you need more than 1.5 GB of RAM? My current machine (which I will be replacing SOON! :cool: ) only has 4GB of HDD space!! (Yes it's that old...beige G3 desktop)
There is no way Apple can raise the price back up above $2999 until the G4 is gone. Even if they speedbumped to 1.2 or 1.3 GHZ it still would be awkward. I'm sure Apple only lowers the prices as a very last measure. So either they felt the dual GHZ would not sell at $3499 and they had absolutely no choice, OR, the G5 is right around the corner and Apple felt they could get better volumes sales by temporarily lowering the price and squeezing as much life at out of the G4 before it dies.
If Apple had a single or dual 1.5 GHZ G5 for sale, you can bet it would and will be $3499.