If it is somewhere public it'd be nice if you could point us to exactly where Apple states the official system requirements for Yosemite because there is no tech specs page linked from the Yosemite preview pages and I just want to see this directly from them too as confirmation. If what you say in this article is just based on developer preview installation anecdotes (that really should be kept back due to NDAs) then technically support for some older Macs could be dropped at a later date as the betas move along before public release. So, you see, I think we all deserve to see the original source of this information.
I doubt features would be limited for the 4S since the 4S ran iOS 7 fine. I would assume most of iOS 8's improvements aren't processor intensive.
I think fine is stretching it a bit, it runs okay but can bog down at times.
Just because a phone runs well under one release doesn't mean it will run fine with the next, the iPhone 4 ran iOS 6 fine but is truly awful with iOS 7. To me I feel the jump between iOS 7 to 8 will be bigger than with 6 to 7. 7 wasn't much more than just a UI update, 8 will provide more inter-application communication and other features which will be demanding on the CPU.
My worry is Apple won't limit features and all 4s users will be complaining that their phones have poor performance - they should learn from the iPhone 4 issues with iOS 7.
You should be able to stream from iTunes to your Apple TV - I can and do that occasionally, although at home I have other more capable devices. As far as burning DVD's I haven touched a DVD in years. In fact, on my old MB I removed it an put in another SSD. I was given a DVD set of a television series for my birthday and couldn't watch it. No DVD or CD players in our house. I felt justified in bittorrenting the series.
Agreed - I have a 2009 Mac Mini and have no problems doing that. You have to wait for content to be fully downloaded though (i.e. if you just bought something on iTunes and its "ready to watch" you can view it on the mac, but you have to wait until its fully downloaded to push it to Apple TV)
I think fine is stretching it a bit, it runs okay but can bog down at times.
Just because a phone runs well under one release doesn't mean it will run fine with the next, the iPhone 4 ran iOS 6 fine but is truly awful with iOS 7.
Honestly, the iPhone 4 running iOS 7.0 WAS pretty awful, but the support Apple gave us with the 7.1 update has been pretty awesome. I have been enjoying all the new features that came with iOS 7 on my old 4. I was honestly just happy that Apple didn't forget about us old loyal users with the iOS 7 update, I think. But I completely understand that they are hampered by hardware limitations and am not surprised the 4 was cut from iOS 8. Still better OS support for older hardware models with Apple than with Android, so we're lucky that way at least.
How does the proximity work on the older macs? Current tools (like knock) require the new bluetooth standard, only on >2011 Mac's. Or might it use the Wifi-N dual band , like airdrop. (which isn't supported on iPhone 4S)
Its not just a problem of processor but also RAM. The iPad 1 had the same processor as the iPhone 4 but could not run iOS 7. We will just have to wait and see.
256MB RAM vs 512 on the iPhone 4.
Originally Posted by LJC94512
…iPad 1 ran on iOS 3 4 5…
And that bothered me RIGHT at the announcement. I knew they’d screw us like that by creating iPhone OS 3.2 specifically for the iPad instead of going to 4.
A5 is a giant product for Apple... iPhone 4s, iPad 2, iPad mini, iPod Touch... All have been in production and some are STILL in production right now. I think we will probably see iOS 9 for A5.... Or iOS 9 will go A7/64-bits and up... Leaving 50+ million devices at A5 and A6 levels. That's a big group of users to drop without so e kind of alternate means... Kind of like how iOS 6 devices do much better at selecting Apps that are compatible from the Apps a Store when they used to just leave you hanging.
I've already seen people commenting other places online about Apple dropping support for the iPhone 4 (will be near 5 yrs old when OS is released).Absolutely hilarious.
Not at all IPhone 4 is perhaps the best form factor iPhone Apple has yet to produce. I understand its begin phased out software support wise but just because I understand the issue of supporting software on old hardware doesn't mean I like the reality of that. I look at it this way it is stimulation to buy a new cell phone but frankly I'm not real excited about Apple current offerings.
I've already seen people commenting other places online about Apple dropping support for the iPhone 4 (will be near 5 yrs old when OS is released).Absolutely hilarious.
You could understand people commenting on it though, right? It was manufactured and sold by Apple all the way up until September of last year. So for some people that bought it late last year they are stuck. So of course some people are going to complain. Plus the device will be 4 years old late this month. I realize that is a long time in the tech industry but Apple products tend to last longer than the competition.
I am more interested to see how OS X runs on my Late 2008 MB Pro. I can't afford to upgrade to a new MacBook so I have to be satisfied with this one. Of course with 8GB RAM and a SSD it runs surprisingly good for it's age. I am also interested to see how iOS 8 runs on my iPad 4. Hopefully they really tuned the speed for a smooth and responsive feel.
The best news is that iOS 8 won't be hobbled on any of Apple's older iPhones in the way that iOS 7 was limited on the iPhone 4. Every iPhone will get the full iOS 8 experience.
It's partly a financial thing as well as technical. They mention it in their SEC filings. If they keep giving free software updates, they have to account for those as costs against the older models. They mention that they typically aim for 2-4 years of software support. This is clearly different from the Mac side at the moment but they'd actually have to manually prevent OS X running on hardware capable of it, which they can't feasibly do without a PR backlash.
"In 2013, 2012 and 2011, the Company’s combined ESPs for the unspecified software upgrade rights and the rights to receive the non-software services included with its qualifying hardware devices have ranged from $5 to $25. Beginning in September 2013, the combined ESPs for iPhone and iPad were increased by up to $5 to reflect additions to unspecified software upgrade rights due to expansion of essential software bundled with these devices. Accordingly, the range of combined ESPs for iPhone and iPad as of September 2013 is $15 to $25. Beginning in October 2013, the Company anticipates increasing the combined ESPs for Mac from $20 to $40 to reflect additions to unspecified software upgrade rights related to expansion of bundled essential software. Revenue allocated to such rights is deferred and recognized on a straight-line basis over the estimated period the rights are expected to be provided for each device, which ranges from two to four years."
Mavericks was released in October 2013 and OS X used to cost $20 so that probably explains the increase in cost from $20 to $40 per device once they made it free. There should be no technical reason to drop the iPhone 4 from iOS 8 but it's 4 years old now and beyond even their AppleCare warranty period. Hardware companies can only survive if users eventually have little choice but to buy an upgrade:
Guys I am now thinking what about iOS 9. What devices do you think iOS 9 will support?
If we are following the logic that a device can now support 4 years worth of OS, the iPhone 4S and iPad 2 IMO will not support iOS 9.
Even though the iPad 2 is running an A5, I suspect Apple may try to get another OS generation out of it. Apple was still selling the 2 until the Air came out, right (i.e. the 2 is the third generation back by development but only the second by sales)? And even later than that to educational and institutional customers.
edit: But a good point is made above: the iPhone 4 was still being sold as new even late last year, and that's not covered by iOS 8, much less 9. Still, I think the educational/institutional market may reasonably expect upgrades longer than the consumer market.
They really should drop the 2007 iMac. It's almost unusable under Mavericks with 4GB of RAM. There are just too many services running in the background and that's just going to increase in Yosemite.
Guys I am now thinking what about iOS 9. What devices do you think iOS 9 will support?
You do realize iOS 8 hasn't even shipped yet.
If we are following the logic that a device can now support 4 years worth of OS, the iPhone 4S and iPad 2 IMO will not support iOS 9.
That is an assumption not logic. We don't even know what issues Apple ran into to cause them to drop iPhone 4. Everyone thinks it is a performance issue but there is no proof of that and frankly iOS 7 is passable on iPhone 4.
If we are following the logic that a device supports a OS based on the SoC, iPhone 4S, iPad 2, iPod touch 5th generation, iPad mini 1st generation and iPad 3rd generation will not support iOS 9. (iDevices running on A5 chip, including the odd out A5X)
Again an assumption is not logic! If you follow Apples development processes and tools you will realize that they have spent incredible resources on making parts of the OS more efficient, they could easily have apps and the OS actually running faster on old hardware or using less RAM. The effort put into Safari for example is yielding excellent results.
I think Apple will do something weird next year, having iPad mini 1st generation and iPad 3rd generation running iOS 9, but not on iPhone 4S and iPad 2.
If it does happen what would be weird about that? I suspect Apples goals here are to deliver acceptable performance and frankly we can't predict where that will be hardware wise because as noted they have spent considerable resources on making things more efficient.
My prediction on iOS 9 compatible devices:
iPhone 5, 5c, 5s, 2014, 2015
iPad 4, Air, Air 2, Air 3, mini 2, mini 3, mini 4
iPod touch 6
I think iPad mini 1, iPad 3 should not make it into the list. This will make the lineup consists of A6, A7, A8 & A9 chip only. I think this will make the engineering smoother in general for the entire lineup.
Then in iOS X, maintain the same lineup i.e. iPhone 5 and 5c can still run iOS X.
Really the thing to do here is to wait and see how iOS actually performs on existing hardware. That would give one some idea about how iOS9 would perform if you are really really worried about something more than a year away.
They really should drop the 2007 iMac. It's almost unusable under Mavericks with 4GB of RAM. There are just too many services running in the background and that's just going to increase in Yosemite.
My 2009 Mini with 2GB of Ram had greatly improved performance with Mavericks. Actually was considering buying a new computer until then, which is good because a new mini looks increasingly less likely...
Agreed - I have a 2009 Mac Mini and have no problems doing that. You have to wait for content to be fully downloaded though (i.e. if you just bought something on iTunes and its "ready to watch" you can view it on the mac, but you have to wait until its fully downloaded to push it to Apple TV)
That's where Airplay would be nice. I'm at a 2010 mac Mini... I had a 25' HDMI cable connected to my mini for that in the past... now I'm in a different room... Airplay would be great.
Power Nap is another 'needs a newer CPU/Motherboard' limitation. AirDrop is less limited, isn't supported on all Mavericks supported configs.
The over/under on all Apple SW functionality on Apple HW is about 2.5 years. On phone's this is closer to 1.9 years.
In my line of work, getting a New Laptop/iPad every 4 years is about right. a New Phone every 2 years (I cracked my 1.5 yo 4s screen... first time I've broken a screen... scratched them, never cracked one) is about right too.
I think the key thing for iP* devices will be the general inclusion of m4/TouchID on all devices this year. In 2 years, Apple (and more importantly, developers) will likely fork their code on that capability alone, if not shortening the support for devices like the 5 and 5c. (I'll be surprised if Apple sells both a 5s and 5c next fall after the iPhone 6 announcement, given the new geometry rumors).
My 2009 Mini with 2GB of Ram had greatly improved performance with Mavericks. Actually was considering buying a new computer until then, which is good because a new mini looks increasingly less likely...
I concur. I upgraded to 8GB on my 2010 Mini, and was hitting the wall constantly (I was running ICleanMemory every 30 minutes or so). Upgrading to Mavericks reduced the performance degradation at 7.5GB in use or above. replacing the stock HD with SSD made this computer spiffy fast. Spending $400 on Memory and an SSD* was a better upgrade path (saving money to buy dual 27" monitors in my near future).
*(All was not good... I torqued my SuperDrive in putting the SSD. I'm thinking literally torqued... some alignment issue... it reads the drive header information but can't get up to speed to write or read data).
Comments
I doubt features would be limited for the 4S since the 4S ran iOS 7 fine. I would assume most of iOS 8's improvements aren't processor intensive.
I think fine is stretching it a bit, it runs okay but can bog down at times.
Just because a phone runs well under one release doesn't mean it will run fine with the next, the iPhone 4 ran iOS 6 fine but is truly awful with iOS 7. To me I feel the jump between iOS 7 to 8 will be bigger than with 6 to 7. 7 wasn't much more than just a UI update, 8 will provide more inter-application communication and other features which will be demanding on the CPU.
My worry is Apple won't limit features and all 4s users will be complaining that their phones have poor performance - they should learn from the iPhone 4 issues with iOS 7.
You should be able to stream from iTunes to your Apple TV - I can and do that occasionally, although at home I have other more capable devices. As far as burning DVD's I haven touched a DVD in years. In fact, on my old MB I removed it an put in another SSD. I was given a DVD set of a television series for my birthday and couldn't watch it. No DVD or CD players in our house. I felt justified in bittorrenting the series.
Agreed - I have a 2009 Mac Mini and have no problems doing that. You have to wait for content to be fully downloaded though (i.e. if you just bought something on iTunes and its "ready to watch" you can view it on the mac, but you have to wait until its fully downloaded to push it to Apple TV)
Honestly, the iPhone 4 running iOS 7.0 WAS pretty awful, but the support Apple gave us with the 7.1 update has been pretty awesome. I have been enjoying all the new features that came with iOS 7 on my old 4. I was honestly just happy that Apple didn't forget about us old loyal users with the iOS 7 update, I think. But I completely understand that they are hampered by hardware limitations and am not surprised the 4 was cut from iOS 8. Still better OS support for older hardware models with Apple than with Android, so we're lucky that way at least.
I am sure not all features will be supported by all versions of iPhones. Can't answer on the Mac side.
Current tools (like knock) require the new bluetooth standard, only on >2011 Mac's.
Or might it use the Wifi-N dual band , like airdrop. (which isn't supported on iPhone 4S)
256MB RAM vs 512 on the iPhone 4.
And that bothered me RIGHT at the announcement. I knew they’d screw us like that by creating iPhone OS 3.2 specifically for the iPad instead of going to 4.
Not at all IPhone 4 is perhaps the best form factor iPhone Apple has yet to produce. I understand its begin phased out software support wise but just because I understand the issue of supporting software on old hardware doesn't mean I like the reality of that. I look at it this way it is stimulation to buy a new cell phone but frankly I'm not real excited about Apple current offerings.
I've already seen people commenting other places online about Apple dropping support for the iPhone 4 (will be near 5 yrs old when OS is released).Absolutely hilarious.
You could understand people commenting on it though, right? It was manufactured and sold by Apple all the way up until September of last year. So for some people that bought it late last year they are stuck. So of course some people are going to complain. Plus the device will be 4 years old late this month. I realize that is a long time in the tech industry but Apple products tend to last longer than the competition.
I am more interested to see how OS X runs on my Late 2008 MB Pro. I can't afford to upgrade to a new MacBook so I have to be satisfied with this one. Of course with 8GB RAM and a SSD it runs surprisingly good for it's age. I am also interested to see how iOS 8 runs on my iPad 4. Hopefully they really tuned the speed for a smooth and responsive feel.
It's partly a financial thing as well as technical. They mention it in their SEC filings. If they keep giving free software updates, they have to account for those as costs against the older models. They mention that they typically aim for 2-4 years of software support. This is clearly different from the Mac side at the moment but they'd actually have to manually prevent OS X running on hardware capable of it, which they can't feasibly do without a PR backlash.
"In 2013, 2012 and 2011, the Company’s combined ESPs for the unspecified software upgrade rights and the rights to receive the non-software services included with its qualifying hardware devices have ranged from $5 to $25. Beginning in September 2013, the combined ESPs for iPhone and iPad were increased by up to $5 to reflect additions to unspecified software upgrade rights due to expansion of essential software bundled with these devices. Accordingly, the range of combined ESPs for iPhone and iPad as of September 2013 is $15 to $25. Beginning in October 2013, the Company anticipates increasing the combined ESPs for Mac from $20 to $40 to reflect additions to unspecified software upgrade rights related to expansion of bundled essential software. Revenue allocated to such rights is deferred and recognized on a straight-line basis over the estimated period the rights are expected to be provided for each device, which ranges from two to four years."
Mavericks was released in October 2013 and OS X used to cost $20 so that probably explains the increase in cost from $20 to $40 per device once they made it free. There should be no technical reason to drop the iPhone 4 from iOS 8 but it's 4 years old now and beyond even their AppleCare warranty period. Hardware companies can only survive if users eventually have little choice but to buy an upgrade:
[VIDEO]
Guys I am now thinking what about iOS 9. What devices do you think iOS 9 will support?
If we are following the logic that a device can now support 4 years worth of OS, the iPhone 4S and iPad 2 IMO will not support iOS 9.
Even though the iPad 2 is running an A5, I suspect Apple may try to get another OS generation out of it. Apple was still selling the 2 until the Air came out, right (i.e. the 2 is the third generation back by development but only the second by sales)? And even later than that to educational and institutional customers.
edit: But a good point is made above: the iPhone 4 was still being sold as new even late last year, and that's not covered by iOS 8, much less 9. Still, I think the educational/institutional market may reasonably expect upgrades longer than the consumer market.
Really the thing to do here is to wait and see how iOS actually performs on existing hardware. That would give one some idea about how iOS9 would perform if you are really really worried about something more than a year away.
They really should drop the 2007 iMac. It's almost unusable under Mavericks with 4GB of RAM. There are just too many services running in the background and that's just going to increase in Yosemite.
My 2009 Mini with 2GB of Ram had greatly improved performance with Mavericks. Actually was considering buying a new computer until then, which is good because a new mini looks increasingly less likely...
Agreed - I have a 2009 Mac Mini and have no problems doing that. You have to wait for content to be fully downloaded though (i.e. if you just bought something on iTunes and its "ready to watch" you can view it on the mac, but you have to wait until its fully downloaded to push it to Apple TV)
That's where Airplay would be nice. I'm at a 2010 mac Mini... I had a 25' HDMI cable connected to my mini for that in the past... now I'm in a different room... Airplay would be great.
Power Nap is another 'needs a newer CPU/Motherboard' limitation. AirDrop is less limited, isn't supported on all Mavericks supported configs.
The over/under on all Apple SW functionality on Apple HW is about 2.5 years. On phone's this is closer to 1.9 years.
In my line of work, getting a New Laptop/iPad every 4 years is about right. a New Phone every 2 years (I cracked my 1.5 yo 4s screen... first time I've broken a screen... scratched them, never cracked one) is about right too.
I think the key thing for iP* devices will be the general inclusion of m4/TouchID on all devices this year. In 2 years, Apple (and more importantly, developers) will likely fork their code on that capability alone, if not shortening the support for devices like the 5 and 5c. (I'll be surprised if Apple sells both a 5s and 5c next fall after the iPhone 6 announcement, given the new geometry rumors).
My 2009 Mini with 2GB of Ram had greatly improved performance with Mavericks. Actually was considering buying a new computer until then, which is good because a new mini looks increasingly less likely...
I concur. I upgraded to 8GB on my 2010 Mini, and was hitting the wall constantly (I was running ICleanMemory every 30 minutes or so). Upgrading to Mavericks reduced the performance degradation at 7.5GB in use or above. replacing the stock HD with SSD made this computer spiffy fast. Spending $400 on Memory and an SSD* was a better upgrade path (saving money to buy dual 27" monitors in my near future).
*(All was not good... I torqued my SuperDrive in putting the SSD. I'm thinking literally torqued... some alignment issue... it reads the drive header information but can't get up to speed to write or read data).