Exactly right. For headphones to use the lightning port, they would need to include a DAC on the headphone itself which would drive up the cost of headphones and make them more bulky. I'm not sure how expensive the DAC component in the iPhone is, but I would guess at least $20 or so.
The new spec implies that each set of headphones would at least have its own DAC capable of taking the specified Lighting encoding (currently a single DAC from Wolfson, I believe), so any existing headphones would not work unless the "adaptor" was really a DAC that converts Lighting-formatted (whatever it's called; I haven't looked it up) digital signals to analog.
And how many of the Golden Ear audiophiles of the world are listening to their reference recordings on iPhones?
Or any other highly miniaturized electronics, for that matter?
Let's put this discussion into perspective and say Golden Ear audiophiles are probably 0.01% of the population.
Listening with headphones plugged into an iDevice's headphone jack? Probably none. The first thing any audiophile does is bemoan the quality of on-board DACs in portable consumer electronics. If they do use headphones, they are using an external DAC/headphone amp which would be fed digital audio via the Dock or Lightning connection.
It appears there are some workarounds to play back high-resolution FLAC files via third-party iOS apps (again to an external DAC), but it's apparently pretty awkward. I'm pretty sure the maximum that iDevices currently support are 48kHz/24-bit audio. I've tried copying 96kHz/24-bit audio files (Apple Lossless) to my trusty iPod classic, but iTunes always says the files are incompatible. They play fine on my Mac.
Most of the audiophile guys don't like miniaturized electronics anyhow, arguing that the close confines increases signal noise, heat, cooties, whatever. They prefer big spacious designs with lots of isolation/space between components.
This makes no sense to me, but more power to them. I'm sure they know what they're doing and what their customers want more then I do. I'd prefer a phone with a few extra mm of thickness and wider compatibility instead of a slightly thinner phone that would require new hardware (new headphones or an adapter). It sounds like a solution in search of a problem. The reasoning of allowing for a few extra mm of thinness makes it sound like Apple is chasing a spec war. Historically Apple doesn't like their customers to focus on spec sheets.
Bad idea. It would instantly render iPhones incompatible with all existing analog headphones. I use a set of Grado headphones with my iOS devices and would not want to trade it in for a limited selection of Lightning-compatible cans.
I get the temptation to offload not only the headphone jack, but the internal digital-to-analog audio converter and op-amp as well. In order to restore compatibility, a Lightning-to-3.5mm jack adapter would be needed. But, if the 30-pin adapters provide any indication, these headphone adapters would be bulky and pricey -- primarily because Lightning is a digital-only format and requires a separate DAC built into any analog audio connector.
And the full length of the 3.5mm jack would now be external to the device. Picture a wafer-thin iPhone with this awkward dongle poking off the bottom for anyone who wants to use an analog headset. Not exactly the elegance that Apple purportedly aims for.
If you are an audiophile the last thing you want is to listen through the crappy D/A converter and amp inside the iPhone. Much better to have the digital stream come out of the lightening connector and go to an external headphone DAC and amplifier.
You sure about that? According to these measurements, the digital-to-analog audio chain used on the iPhone 5 performs better than most dedicated headphone amps. If the earlier post about Apple going with Wolfson DACs on the iPhone is true, then that would explain why, since Wolfson DACs are more often found in high end audio components.
Confirming what I hear with critical listening, the iPhone 5 is a wonderful high-fidelity audio source. While publications funded mostly by advertisements from makers of expensive cables, power conditioners and outboard DACs don't want you to know this, the iPhone 5 is a better audio source than most DACs will be when connected to a computer or CD transport. The only difference is that the iPhone has a level 6 dB lower than a proper CD player, but the iPhone still has more output at 1 V full-scale than some outboard audiophile DACs!
Quote:
Ignore those who confuse the iPhone with crappy MP3 players; the iPhone has wonderful audio quality for serious music listening either directly with good or great headphones or plugged into the rest of your high fidelity system.
Bad idea and not feasible. Lightening is still too expensive, many people have incompatible headphones they paid a lot of money for, Lightening has gained virtually no traction in the marketplace, the plugs fall out at the slightest jarring...I could go on and on. This is one of those "upgrades" Apple should not try to cram down our throats.
But would it be enough for you to quit the platform? That’s all that matters. Lots of money to be made selling an adapter for $19. If the European Union gets its way with standardizing on Micro (or is it Mini) USB for charging mobile devices then there’ll have to be an adapter for that too.
What in the hell do you mean by saying Lightening has no traction in the marketplace? All iOS devices use it now. It’s an Apple proprietary connector. If you have an iOS device you will need a Lightening cable, period. And the Lightening audio will be digital and capable of a lot more than just two channel analog, low resolution sound. How about simulated, or real DD 5.1 on future Lightening headphones?
It seems an odd direction to me. Won't that preclude charging the phone while you are listening to it unless Apple is planning on implementing wireless induction charging. Won't this mean a pass through charging dongle or something similar?
If you are an audiophile the last thing you want is to listen through the crappy D/A converter and amp inside the iPhone. Much better to have the digital stream come out of the lightening connector and go to an external headphone DAC and amplifier.
"Crappy"? Who makes the most popular portable music player?
Bad idea. It would instantly render iPhones incompatible with all existing analog headphones. I use a set of Grado headphones with my iOS devices and would not want to trade it in for a limited selection of Lightning-compatible cans.
I get the temptation to offload not only the headphone jack, but the internal digital-to-analog audio converter and op-amp as well. In order to restore compatibility, a Lightning-to-3.5mm jack adapter would be needed. But, if the 30-pin adapters provide any indication, these headphone adapters would be bulky and pricey -- primarily because Lightning is a digital-only format and requires a separate DAC built into any analog audio connector.
And the full length of the 3.5mm jack would now be external to the device. Picture a wafer-thin iPhone with this awkward dongle poking off the bottom for anyone who wants to use an analog headset. Not exactly the elegance that Apple purportedly aims for.
I really dislike nonconforming technology and I probably wouldn't buy an iPhone that would require an adaptor just so I could use my headphones but I guess it's not such a big deal for me as I don't have an iPhone. On my iPad though I don't have a problem with it as I use an Apogee One DAC that is connected via the Lightning Port, so in a way I have already moved on from using the built in 3.5mm jack. If Apple was to come out with a light weight DAC for the iPhone or even have it integrated into the phone itself I might change my mind but even then the odds that higher end headphones and I'm not talking about Beats will support this new format are pretty slim, so I would probably need an adaptor anyway.
Would an adaptor change the quality of the output, I ask because the HDMI adaptor for my iPad Air is very inconsistent, most of the time it mirrors the desktop at a 4:3 aspect ratio, plays videos at 720P and though I don't play many games I do like a few and their is noticeable lag with some, etc. Nothing compared to the experience when using a device that has a built in HDM, for example my Nexus 10 which has a built in Micro HDMI, I just plug it in and it works, full HD so none of those awful black bars that drives me batty on my iPad Air, no lag and the image is sharp and quite pleasing to look at when viewing movies and photos. So I defiantly notice the difference between using a dongle and having the tech built in, will there be a downside in using a dongle that converts the single from digital to analog for the 3.5mm jack. Have you seen the inside of the HDMI dongle, it could probably run iOS all by itself with the amount of chips that are in it, not to mention it wasn't cheap, especially for something that does something so arbitrary as connecting the device a TV. I would pay 100 dollars more for my iPad if it had a built in HDMI port.
Which bring s me to my next question, is having less ports really all that necessary, will the power dongle have two Lightning ports on it so I could listen to music while the iPad charges or will I have to wait? Will Apple come out with a 4 Port Lighting Port adaptor because if they continue down this line it's going to be a must.
what if it comes in form of a lightning cable adapter to 3.5 mm headphone jack? While the market adjust to bluetooth & lightning headphones over the next couple of years?
"Crappy"? Who makes the most popular portable music player?
It's defiantly not crappy but nor are they anywhere near the best. I wish Apple would use the same chipset as the Fiio X3 or X5 line of MP3 Players. Bought an X5 or I should say got one for my birthday last year and it is by far the best sounding portable music player I have ever listened too, well iRivers Astell&Kern was the best but who pays 1200 dollars for an MP3 player. Anyway their defiantly like night and day better than the iPod, though I would rather use an iPod if it had the same tech, because the X3 and X5 are not only ugly as sin but their interface was made by a 12 year old on Ritalin.
what if it comes in form of a lightning cable adapter to 3.5 mm headphone jack? While the market adjust to bluetooth & lightning headphones over the next couple of years?
Okay, but which headphone manufactures will offer Lightning port compatible models and what incentive would they have for doing so if the iPhone already comes with an adaptor, they could just continue making the 3.5mm jack version to cover everyone. This move has everything to do with Beats, they need to get that 3 Billion dollars back some how, what better way then to nudge people into buying their branded headphones.
1) There is nothing preventing a simple adapter being used for 3.5mm headphones to work.
2) In what way is the Lightning connector expensive? In what way has it not gained traction in the marketplace? It sounds like you're confusing Thunderbolt with Lightning.
I have yet to own or use a pair of Bluetooth headphones that I was happy with not to mention the hassle of having to recharge the darn things every night. My outlets are one device from taking out a city grid, I think I will stick with 3.5mm cords for the foreseeable future.
I'm all for a digital audio connection (not to mention the removal of a pocket lint collection port) but for the love of all that's holy use the extra space for more battery! How thin do our iPhones really need to be? Personally I preferred the heft of my iPhone 4 to my 5S.
I have yet to own or use a pair of Bluetooth headphones that I was happy with not to mention the hassle of having to recharge the darn things every night. My outlets are one device from taking out a city grid, I think I will stick with 3.5mm cords for the foreseeable future.
If they did this, I imagine there could be lightning cord that has a headphone jack coming off it as well. I would also imagine Bluetooth would be pushed as well.
Nah, I will just continue not to buy an iPhone. My concerns are with my iPad, is Apple going to give us two Lightning Ports now or at least come out with a port extender. How does one listen to music while the unit is charging or connected to MIDI, my iPad stays pretty stationary most of the time as it's used primarily for music creation, so it's always plugged in, unplugging it so I can use my headphones while it's connected to my Monster or Novation Pad doesn't sound very appealing, no it sounds down right impossible unless I go with a Bluetooth headphones (which I will not do). I have quite a few friends who use their iPads for live music, they are going to absolutely hate playing musical chairs with their Lightning Port.
Comments
29 cents for the hardware, $19.71 for the "made for iStuff" licensing fee...
And how many of the Golden Ear audiophiles of the world are listening to their reference recordings on iPhones?
Or any other highly miniaturized electronics, for that matter?
Let's put this discussion into perspective and say Golden Ear audiophiles are probably 0.01% of the population.
Listening with headphones plugged into an iDevice's headphone jack? Probably none. The first thing any audiophile does is bemoan the quality of on-board DACs in portable consumer electronics. If they do use headphones, they are using an external DAC/headphone amp which would be fed digital audio via the Dock or Lightning connection.
It appears there are some workarounds to play back high-resolution FLAC files via third-party iOS apps (again to an external DAC), but it's apparently pretty awkward. I'm pretty sure the maximum that iDevices currently support are 48kHz/24-bit audio. I've tried copying 96kHz/24-bit audio files (Apple Lossless) to my trusty iPod classic, but iTunes always says the files are incompatible. They play fine on my Mac.
Most of the audiophile guys don't like miniaturized electronics anyhow, arguing that the close confines increases signal noise, heat, cooties, whatever. They prefer big spacious designs with lots of isolation/space between components.
This makes no sense to me, but more power to them. I'm sure they know what they're doing and what their customers want more then I do. I'd prefer a phone with a few extra mm of thickness and wider compatibility instead of a slightly thinner phone that would require new hardware (new headphones or an adapter). It sounds like a solution in search of a problem. The reasoning of allowing for a few extra mm of thinness makes it sound like Apple is chasing a spec war. Historically Apple doesn't like their customers to focus on spec sheets.
Bad idea. It would instantly render iPhones incompatible with all existing analog headphones. I use a set of Grado headphones with my iOS devices and would not want to trade it in for a limited selection of Lightning-compatible cans.
I get the temptation to offload not only the headphone jack, but the internal digital-to-analog audio converter and op-amp as well. In order to restore compatibility, a Lightning-to-3.5mm jack adapter would be needed. But, if the 30-pin adapters provide any indication, these headphone adapters would be bulky and pricey -- primarily because Lightning is a digital-only format and requires a separate DAC built into any analog audio connector.
And the full length of the 3.5mm jack would now be external to the device. Picture a wafer-thin iPhone with this awkward dongle poking off the bottom for anyone who wants to use an analog headset. Not exactly the elegance that Apple purportedly aims for.
If you are an audiophile the last thing you want is to listen through the crappy D/A converter and amp inside the iPhone. Much better to have the digital stream come out of the lightening connector and go to an external headphone DAC and amplifier.
You sure about that? According to these measurements, the digital-to-analog audio chain used on the iPhone 5 performs better than most dedicated headphone amps. If the earlier post about Apple going with Wolfson DACs on the iPhone is true, then that would explain why, since Wolfson DACs are more often found in high end audio components.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm
Bad idea and not feasible. Lightening is still too expensive, many people have incompatible headphones they paid a lot of money for, Lightening has gained virtually no traction in the marketplace, the plugs fall out at the slightest jarring...I could go on and on. This is one of those "upgrades" Apple should not try to cram down our throats.
But would it be enough for you to quit the platform? That’s all that matters. Lots of money to be made selling an adapter for $19. If the European Union gets its way with standardizing on Micro (or is it Mini) USB for charging mobile devices then there’ll have to be an adapter for that too.
What in the hell do you mean by saying Lightening has no traction in the marketplace? All iOS devices use it now. It’s an Apple proprietary connector. If you have an iOS device you will need a Lightening cable, period. And the Lightening audio will be digital and capable of a lot more than just two channel analog, low resolution sound. How about simulated, or real DD 5.1 on future Lightening headphones?
"Crappy"? Who makes the most popular portable music player?
Bad idea. It would instantly render iPhones incompatible with all existing analog headphones. I use a set of Grado headphones with my iOS devices and would not want to trade it in for a limited selection of Lightning-compatible cans.
I get the temptation to offload not only the headphone jack, but the internal digital-to-analog audio converter and op-amp as well. In order to restore compatibility, a Lightning-to-3.5mm jack adapter would be needed. But, if the 30-pin adapters provide any indication, these headphone adapters would be bulky and pricey -- primarily because Lightning is a digital-only format and requires a separate DAC built into any analog audio connector.
And the full length of the 3.5mm jack would now be external to the device. Picture a wafer-thin iPhone with this awkward dongle poking off the bottom for anyone who wants to use an analog headset. Not exactly the elegance that Apple purportedly aims for.
I really dislike nonconforming technology and I probably wouldn't buy an iPhone that would require an adaptor just so I could use my headphones but I guess it's not such a big deal for me as I don't have an iPhone. On my iPad though I don't have a problem with it as I use an Apogee One DAC that is connected via the Lightning Port, so in a way I have already moved on from using the built in 3.5mm jack. If Apple was to come out with a light weight DAC for the iPhone or even have it integrated into the phone itself I might change my mind but even then the odds that higher end headphones and I'm not talking about Beats will support this new format are pretty slim, so I would probably need an adaptor anyway.
Would an adaptor change the quality of the output, I ask because the HDMI adaptor for my iPad Air is very inconsistent, most of the time it mirrors the desktop at a 4:3 aspect ratio, plays videos at 720P and though I don't play many games I do like a few and their is noticeable lag with some, etc. Nothing compared to the experience when using a device that has a built in HDM, for example my Nexus 10 which has a built in Micro HDMI, I just plug it in and it works, full HD so none of those awful black bars that drives me batty on my iPad Air, no lag and the image is sharp and quite pleasing to look at when viewing movies and photos. So I defiantly notice the difference between using a dongle and having the tech built in, will there be a downside in using a dongle that converts the single from digital to analog for the 3.5mm jack. Have you seen the inside of the HDMI dongle, it could probably run iOS all by itself with the amount of chips that are in it, not to mention it wasn't cheap, especially for something that does something so arbitrary as connecting the device a TV. I would pay 100 dollars more for my iPad if it had a built in HDMI port.
Which bring s me to my next question, is having less ports really all that necessary, will the power dongle have two Lightning ports on it so I could listen to music while the iPad charges or will I have to wait? Will Apple come out with a 4 Port Lighting Port adaptor because if they continue down this line it's going to be a must.
"Crappy"? Who makes the most popular portable music player?
It's defiantly not crappy but nor are they anywhere near the best. I wish Apple would use the same chipset as the Fiio X3 or X5 line of MP3 Players. Bought an X5 or I should say got one for my birthday last year and it is by far the best sounding portable music player I have ever listened too, well iRivers Astell&Kern was the best but who pays 1200 dollars for an MP3 player. Anyway their defiantly like night and day better than the iPod, though I would rather use an iPod if it had the same tech, because the X3 and X5 are not only ugly as sin but their interface was made by a 12 year old on Ritalin.
Cords are so last century.
what if it comes in form of a lightning cable adapter to 3.5 mm headphone jack? While the market adjust to bluetooth & lightning headphones over the next couple of years?
Okay, but which headphone manufactures will offer Lightning port compatible models and what incentive would they have for doing so if the iPhone already comes with an adaptor, they could just continue making the 3.5mm jack version to cover everyone. This move has everything to do with Beats, they need to get that 3 Billion dollars back some how, what better way then to nudge people into buying their branded headphones.
1) There is nothing preventing a simple adapter being used for 3.5mm headphones to work.
2) In what way is the Lightning connector expensive? In what way has it not gained traction in the marketplace? It sounds like you're confusing Thunderbolt with Lightning.
Very very frighting!
Bluetooth.
Cords are so last century.
I have yet to own or use a pair of Bluetooth headphones that I was happy with not to mention the hassle of having to recharge the darn things every night. My outlets are one device from taking out a city grid, I think I will stick with 3.5mm cords for the foreseeable future.
Then welcome to dongle world.
Then welcome to dongle world.
Nah, I will just continue not to buy an iPhone. My concerns are with my iPad, is Apple going to give us two Lightning Ports now or at least come out with a port extender. How does one listen to music while the unit is charging or connected to MIDI, my iPad stays pretty stationary most of the time as it's used primarily for music creation, so it's always plugged in, unplugging it so I can use my headphones while it's connected to my Monster or Novation Pad doesn't sound very appealing, no it sounds down right impossible unless I go with a Bluetooth headphones (which I will not do). I have quite a few friends who use their iPads for live music, they are going to absolutely hate playing musical chairs with their Lightning Port.