If they can update other products AND lower the price they should at least be able to lower the price on the same old mini.
They only make pricing updates when they refresh a line. The mini is in an odd place in that if they stick with matching macbook pro cpu packages as they have in the past, they would be once again using more expensive processors. I disagree with Marvin on the mid range being the sticking point there. As a percentage of retail price the biggest increase would be moving the low end to something comparable to what is used in the 13" rmbp.
So does anyone else out there find "Future Apple Hardware" to be down right boring without any credible Mac or even iPad news? There seems to be lots of filler about things I really don't care about.
I wanted to buy a Mini to upgrade my parents' setup this Christmas. That plan got scratched this morning.
Dyson may get the money instead.
I bought my mother a Mac Mini about 5 years ago and all she did with it was use the email and internet. So for her birthday this year we got her an Asus ChromeBox. A local computer seller franchise by the name of InterDiscount were selling them for the equivalent of 140 dollars to our Swiss Frank. She loves it and is now even using Hangouts to talk with the familily. It came with a wireless Keyboard and Mouse so we just connected it to her TV. Not saying it's better in anyway to a Mac Mini but for mommy's it's kind of perfect.
I bought my mother a Mac Mini about 5 years ago and all she did with it was use the email and internet. So for her birthday this year we got her an Asus ChromeBox. A local computer seller franchise by the name of InterDiscount were selling them for the equivalent of 140 dollars to our Swiss Frank. She loves it and is now even using Hangouts to talk with the familily. It came with a wireless Keyboard and Mouse so we just connected it to her TV. Not saying it's better in anyway to a Mac Mini but for mommy's it's kind of perfect.
I bought my mother a Mac Mini about 5 years ago and all she did with it was use the email and internet. So for her birthday this year we got her an Asus ChromeBox. A local computer seller franchise by the name of InterDiscount were selling them for the equivalent of 140 dollars to our Swiss Frank. She loves it and is now even using Hangouts to talk with the familily. It came with a wireless Keyboard and Mouse so we just connected it to her TV. Not saying it's better in anyway to a Mac Mini but for mommy's it's kind of perfect.
Unfortunately this is a market that Apple misses outs on completely. Sadly they could nail that market with a few enhancements to AppleTV. Give Apple TV the capability to use a keyboard in conjunction with user apps (an App Store) and these single purpose uses would be covered in an inexpensive platfrom.
I'm actually sitting here thinking that Apple has something up its sleeve iOS device wise to address this issue sort of market need. There are actually numerous use cases where a simple computer is the better choose, especially if the intent is to run only one or a couple of apps.
Unfortunately this is a market that Apple misses outs on completely. Sadly they could nail that market with a few enhancements to AppleTV. Give Apple TV the capability to use a keyboard in conjunction with user apps (an App Store) and these single purpose uses would be covered in an inexpensive platfrom.
That's what they aim the iPad at. Browsing on the Apple TV would be convenient for people who just have an Apple TV but the iPad offers a much better experience for email and browsing as well as other apps and you get the benefit of being able to take it anywhere so if you don't want to stay up, you can do the same browsing and email in bed. This shows from Chrome OS usage stats:
It's at 1/10th of Linux. The problem with the cheap box route is there's very little profit and the market isn't there. People value all-in-one devices more highly.
The PC desktop market is still fairly strong with over 100m units per year but AIOs are making up a growing portion of those.
The iMac looks like it'll be getting a big revision with a Retina display. If this is the case then it means a Retina Thunderbolt display. If they update the Mini now, there's zero chance buyers will get the retina display with it. It'll take some GPU power to drive a Retina display but if they bring the Mini line down to just a quad-i7/Iris Pro model, that should be ok.
The alternative is that they make a cheaper iMac to grab some of the Mini crowd with a display sale too.
The iMac sells at least 2x the amount of Minis at 2x the ASP so it's at least 4x more profitable for Apple than the Mini and the margins could also be higher on the iMac.
Once the iMac gets updated, it should be clearer what the future of the Mini will be. This could be as late as September-November.
Relic - good to hear from you!????????????????????
Unfortunately this is a market that Apple misses outs on completely. Sadly they could nail that market with a few enhancements to AppleTV. Give Apple TV the capability to use a keyboard in conjunction with user apps (an App Store) and these single purpose uses would be covered in an inexpensive platfrom.
I'm actually sitting here thinking that Apple has something up its sleeve iOS device wise to address this issue sort of market need. There are actually numerous use cases where a simple computer is the better choose, especially if the intent is to run only one or a couple of apps.
Thanks I've been hovering around a little, I recently got home from a long stay at a clinic in Geneva. I go back in about two weeks for another operation. I've been waiting for the Apple TV to get support for regular iOS apps for a while now, I thought for sure this was the route it was going, maybe the next model.
That's what they aim the iPad at. Browsing on the Apple TV would be convenient for people who just have an Apple TV but the iPad offers a much better experience for email and browsing as well as other apps and you get the benefit of being able to take it anywhere so if you don't want to stay up, you can do the same browsing and email in bed. This shows from Chrome OS usage stats:
The problem is the iPad is very expensive relatively.
It's at 1/10th of Linux. The problem with the cheap box route is there's very little profit and the market isn't there. People value all-in-one devices more highly.
There is little profit if you go with Intel hardware with conventional expectations. However if you go the AppleTV route you drastically cut hardware costs with your profits coming from apps and media sales. Really it is just an extension of what they are doing now with AppleTV. Further it isn't much different than what happens with gaming consoles.
The PC desktop market is still fairly strong with over 100m units per year but AIOs are making up a growing portion of those.
Where does that come from? I don't see people knocking down doors to get to AIO's. In the case of Apple you only have one practical desktop which is the Mini, iMac sales are more the result of no viable alternatives.
The iMac looks like it'll be getting a big revision with a Retina display. If this is the case then it means a Retina Thunderbolt display. If they update the Mini now, there's zero chance buyers will get the retina display with it. It'll take some GPU power to drive a Retina display but if they bring the Mini line down to just a quad-i7/Iris Pro model, that should be ok.
I can't imagine the current Minis or even a Haswell based Mini actually driving a large retina (4K) display. Further I can't imagine Apple marketing any new monitor at less than 4K resolution.
The alternative is that they make a cheaper iMac to grab some of the Mini crowd with a display sale too.
The iMac sells at least 2x the amount of Minis at 2x the ASP so it's at least 4x more profitable for Apple than the Mini and the margins could also be higher on the iMac.
A company can't become obsessed with profits to the point that they ignore consummer needs! They desperately need a desktop machine that isn't an iMac that delivers respectable performance.
Once the iMac gets updated, it should be clearer what the future of the Mini will be. This could be as late as September-November.
Honestly I think something new is coming. If not Apples customers should rightfully be pissed off. Especially when the hardware exists to address the Minis biggest shortcoming which has been the GPU.
This is good to hear as the forum really needs your unique grace and wisdom! Beyond that your sense of humor fills my heart with desire! Desire for a good laugh!
Thanks I've been hovering around a little, I recently got home from a long stay at a clinic in Geneva. I go back in about two weeks for another operation. I've been waiting for the Apple TV to get support for regular iOS apps for a while now, I thought for sure this was the route it was going, maybe the next model.
It would seem to be a no brainer for Apple. Maybe they are waiting for better hardware that allows for containment of costs while delivering far better performance.
"the market for AIOs is growing fast—more than 20 percent in the first half of 2013, according to IDC, which makes it the fastest-growing desktop form factor in North America"
They don't make up a majority of the desktop sales but towers are on the way down and AIOs on the way up. The only issue I've ever had with AIOs is locking the storage inside, especially with HDDs. If they move the storage outside and solder the RAM on, it's no problem at all.
It's more cost-effective for the buyer because they aren't paying margins to multiple manufacturers:
A company can't become obsessed with profits to the point that they ignore consummer needs! They desperately need a desktop machine that isn't an iMac that delivers respectable performance.
That consumer need doesn't exist in high demand. People keep saying Apple needs to focus on the Mini but as I said, the iMac is 4x more profitable for them so they don't rely on the Mini at all. It will never drive their desktop business. They've done a great job with it up until now but consumers simply haven't been buying it as much as the iMac and this would still be the case if they updated it.
From a customer relations standpoint Apples move or lack of movement here is pretty stupid. Haswell would have been a really decent upgrade to the Mini addressing its big weakness (the GPU) and satisfying the needs of users that understand the value of Haswell in this platform.
The mini is likely to remain 1 gen back behind the iMac now that it's gone IGP. Otherwise a Core i7 Haswell mini would significantly erode iMac sales.
There is little profit if you go with Intel hardware with conventional expectations. However if you go the AppleTV route you drastically cut hardware costs with your profits coming from apps and media sales. Really it is just an extension of what they are doing now with AppleTV. Further it isn't much different than what happens with gaming consoles.
At $99 it would impact iOS device sales a lot. It would likely have to be at least $199 for 16GB and no better than an A5 ($30 cheaper than an equivalent iPod touch) and probably $349 for an A7 ($50 less than the retina iPad).
The business model is relatively inexpensive apps for expensive hardware. The profits aren't nearly as good for app sales to want to switch business models.
I bought my mother a Mac Mini about 5 years ago and all she did with it was use the email and internet. So for her birthday this year we got her an Asus ChromeBox. A local computer seller franchise by the name of InterDiscount were selling them for the equivalent of 140 dollars to our Swiss Frank. She loves it and is now even using Hangouts to talk with the familily. It came with a wireless Keyboard and Mouse so we just connected it to her TV. Not saying it's better in anyway to a Mac Mini but for mommy's it's kind of perfect.
I got my mom an iPad. That works okay but a lot more than $140.
I think I'm giving up on the mini and going to see about a hackintosh or iMac...given it's June I might wait till August to see if they do anything before school starts but I'm thinking probably not.
I got my mom an iPad. That works okay but a lot more than $140.
I think I'm giving up on the mini and going to see about a hackintosh or iMac...given it's June I might wait till August to see if they do anything before school starts but I'm thinking probably not.
Shhh, don't tell anyone around here but I've made like 10 Hackintoshed computers for friends and family. They actually work quite well when compatible hardware is used. I would recommend a refurbished Lenovo X201 to X230. I've had the best success with these models and you can get one from eBay quite inexpensively. I actually have an X220 lying around that I use for all of my evil experiments, the ease at which you can remove the drive is very helpful when using multiple OS's. I would love to try and install OSX on a Intel Nuc, I keep finding the i3 model on eBay for about 150 bucks, hmmmm. Good luck!
I think I'm giving up on the mini and going to see about a hackintosh or iMac...given it's June I might wait till August to see if they do anything before school starts but I'm thinking probably not.
I don't think there's much point holding out for an iMac as the cheapest quad-i7 model is $1699 and that has a HDD glued inside it.
IMO, everyone holding out for a decent Mini with a good GPU should just get one of these:
Say that you wanted a quad-i7 and 8GB RAM in the Mini, this would be $799 + $80 for the RAM. SSD is the way forward for all machines so you'd get 256GB for $110. This total comes to $989. The MBP is just $670 more.
For that $670, you get a portable machine with a Retina IPS display and you get a powerful dedicated GPU and your resale value is higher. To get the faster PCIe storage, TB2, 802.11ac wifi, it's just another $40. It has Iris Pro, which is close to the 650M:
If you want to leave it in clamshell and hook it to a display, that's ok or just use it as a second display. The laptops will be getting updated soon so the refurb prices might drop further.
Say that you wanted a quad-i7 and 8GB RAM in the Mini, this would be $799 + $80 for the RAM. SSD is the way forward for all machines so you'd get 256GB for $110. This total comes to $989. The MBP is just $670 more.
For that $670, you get a portable machine with a Retina IPS display and you get a powerful dedicated GPU and your resale value is higher. To get the faster PCIe storage, TB2, 802.11ac wifi, it's just another $40. It has Iris Pro, which is close to the 650M:
If you want to leave it in clamshell and hook it to a display, that's ok or just use it as a second display. The laptops will be getting updated soon so the refurb prices might drop further.
That's kind of an expensive jump though, that 679 bucks could buy you a nice monitor with money left over. I would just buy a used iMac, there are some pretty incredible deals on eBay.
That's kind of an expensive jump though, that 679 bucks could buy you a nice monitor with money left over. I would just buy a used iMac, there are some pretty incredible deals on eBay.
The laptop comes with a monitor and if you had to get a monitor and kb/mouse for the Mini, the difference in price drops further.
Used models on eBay don't always come with a warranty. Refurbs get a full year and you can extend it to 3 years.
As for the extra cost, like I say it has higher resale value so it evens out.
Comments
Quote:
Or at least lower the price.
If they can update other products AND lower the price they should at least be able to lower the price on the same old mini.
They only make pricing updates when they refresh a line. The mini is in an odd place in that if they stick with matching macbook pro cpu packages as they have in the past, they would be once again using more expensive processors. I disagree with Marvin on the mid range being the sticking point there. As a percentage of retail price the biggest increase would be moving the low end to something comparable to what is used in the 13" rmbp.
So am I a mini owner. More important things in life than worrying about new mini's coming out.
There is a website called 123. Mac Mini you might find that more interesting than this and informative.
I bought my mother a Mac Mini about 5 years ago and all she did with it was use the email and internet. So for her birthday this year we got her an Asus ChromeBox. A local computer seller franchise by the name of InterDiscount were selling them for the equivalent of 140 dollars to our Swiss Frank. She loves it and is now even using Hangouts to talk with the familily. It came with a wireless Keyboard and Mouse so we just connected it to her TV. Not saying it's better in anyway to a Mac Mini but for mommy's it's kind of perfect.
I bought my mother a Mac Mini about 5 years ago and all she did with it was use the email and internet. So for her birthday this year we got her an Asus ChromeBox. A local computer seller franchise by the name of InterDiscount were selling them for the equivalent of 140 dollars to our Swiss Frank. She loves it and is now even using Hangouts to talk with the familily. It came with a wireless Keyboard and Mouse so we just connected it to her TV. Not saying it's better in anyway to a Mac Mini but for mommy's it's kind of perfect.
Sounds interesting. Thanks, I'll look into it.
Unfortunately this is a market that Apple misses outs on completely. Sadly they could nail that market with a few enhancements to AppleTV. Give Apple TV the capability to use a keyboard in conjunction with user apps (an App Store) and these single purpose uses would be covered in an inexpensive platfrom.
I'm actually sitting here thinking that Apple has something up its sleeve iOS device wise to address this issue sort of market need. There are actually numerous use cases where a simple computer is the better choose, especially if the intent is to run only one or a couple of apps.
That's what they aim the iPad at. Browsing on the Apple TV would be convenient for people who just have an Apple TV but the iPad offers a much better experience for email and browsing as well as other apps and you get the benefit of being able to take it anywhere so if you don't want to stay up, you can do the same browsing and email in bed. This shows from Chrome OS usage stats:
http://gigaom.com/2014/02/20/chitika-chrome-os-web-usage-share-doubles-but-is-still-minuscule-overall/
It's at 1/10th of Linux. The problem with the cheap box route is there's very little profit and the market isn't there. People value all-in-one devices more highly.
The PC desktop market is still fairly strong with over 100m units per year but AIOs are making up a growing portion of those.
The iMac looks like it'll be getting a big revision with a Retina display. If this is the case then it means a Retina Thunderbolt display. If they update the Mini now, there's zero chance buyers will get the retina display with it. It'll take some GPU power to drive a Retina display but if they bring the Mini line down to just a quad-i7/Iris Pro model, that should be ok.
The alternative is that they make a cheaper iMac to grab some of the Mini crowd with a display sale too.
The iMac sells at least 2x the amount of Minis at 2x the ASP so it's at least 4x more profitable for Apple than the Mini and the margins could also be higher on the iMac.
Once the iMac gets updated, it should be clearer what the future of the Mini will be. This could be as late as September-November.
Thanks I've been hovering around a little, I recently got home from a long stay at a clinic in Geneva. I go back in about two weeks for another operation. I've been waiting for the Apple TV to get support for regular iOS apps for a while now, I thought for sure this was the route it was going, maybe the next model.
It is the thought that counts.
Honestly I think something new is coming. If not Apples customers should rightfully be pissed off. Especially when the hardware exists to address the Minis biggest shortcoming which has been the GPU.
It would seem to be a no brainer for Apple. Maybe they are waiting for better hardware that allows for containment of costs while delivering far better performance.
It has more value though. $300 for a portable computer is a good price and Apple's competitors make little to no profit margin.
AIOs have been experiencing double digit growth while the overall PC industry is declining or growing very slowly:
http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/544115/desktop_growing_back_aio_nuc_more_intel/
http://thevarguy.com/blog/all-one-computers-next-wave-desktops
"the market for AIOs is growing fast—more than 20 percent in the first half of 2013, according to IDC, which makes it the fastest-growing desktop form factor in North America"
They don't make up a majority of the desktop sales but towers are on the way down and AIOs on the way up. The only issue I've ever had with AIOs is locking the storage inside, especially with HDDs. If they move the storage outside and solder the RAM on, it's no problem at all.
It's more cost-effective for the buyer because they aren't paying margins to multiple manufacturers:
http://www.amazon.com/Gateway-ZX4270-UR30-19-5-Inch-Desktop-Black/dp/B00F5V8NLC
It's more profitable for the manufacturer as they are able to sell more of their own product to the buyer. It's probably easier to support too.
That consumer need doesn't exist in high demand. People keep saying Apple needs to focus on the Mini but as I said, the iMac is 4x more profitable for them so they don't rely on the Mini at all. It will never drive their desktop business. They've done a great job with it up until now but consumers simply haven't been buying it as much as the iMac and this would still be the case if they updated it.
From a customer relations standpoint Apples move or lack of movement here is pretty stupid. Haswell would have been a really decent upgrade to the Mini addressing its big weakness (the GPU) and satisfying the needs of users that understand the value of Haswell in this platform.
The mini is likely to remain 1 gen back behind the iMac now that it's gone IGP. Otherwise a Core i7 Haswell mini would significantly erode iMac sales.
There is little profit if you go with Intel hardware with conventional expectations. However if you go the AppleTV route you drastically cut hardware costs with your profits coming from apps and media sales. Really it is just an extension of what they are doing now with AppleTV. Further it isn't much different than what happens with gaming consoles.
At $99 it would impact iOS device sales a lot. It would likely have to be at least $199 for 16GB and no better than an A5 ($30 cheaper than an equivalent iPod touch) and probably $349 for an A7 ($50 less than the retina iPad).
The business model is relatively inexpensive apps for expensive hardware. The profits aren't nearly as good for app sales to want to switch business models.
I bought my mother a Mac Mini about 5 years ago and all she did with it was use the email and internet. So for her birthday this year we got her an Asus ChromeBox. A local computer seller franchise by the name of InterDiscount were selling them for the equivalent of 140 dollars to our Swiss Frank. She loves it and is now even using Hangouts to talk with the familily. It came with a wireless Keyboard and Mouse so we just connected it to her TV. Not saying it's better in anyway to a Mac Mini but for mommy's it's kind of perfect.
I got my mom an iPad. That works okay but a lot more than $140.
I think I'm giving up on the mini and going to see about a hackintosh or iMac...given it's June I might wait till August to see if they do anything before school starts but I'm thinking probably not.
Shhh, don't tell anyone around here but I've made like 10 Hackintoshed computers for friends and family. They actually work quite well when compatible hardware is used. I would recommend a refurbished Lenovo X201 to X230. I've had the best success with these models and you can get one from eBay quite inexpensively. I actually have an X220 lying around that I use for all of my evil experiments, the ease at which you can remove the drive is very helpful when using multiple OS's. I would love to try and install OSX on a Intel Nuc, I keep finding the i3 model on eBay for about 150 bucks, hmmmm. Good luck!
I don't think there's much point holding out for an iMac as the cheapest quad-i7 model is $1699 and that has a HDD glued inside it.
IMO, everyone holding out for a decent Mini with a good GPU should just get one of these:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FE664LL/A/refurbished-154-inch-macBook-Pro-24ghz-Quad-core-Intel-i7-with-retina-Display
Say that you wanted a quad-i7 and 8GB RAM in the Mini, this would be $799 + $80 for the RAM. SSD is the way forward for all machines so you'd get 256GB for $110. This total comes to $989. The MBP is just $670 more.
For that $670, you get a portable machine with a Retina IPS display and you get a powerful dedicated GPU and your resale value is higher. To get the faster PCIe storage, TB2, 802.11ac wifi, it's just another $40. It has Iris Pro, which is close to the 650M:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FE293LL/A/refurbished-154-inch-macbook-pro-20ghz-quad-core-intel-i7-with-retina-display
If you want to leave it in clamshell and hook it to a display, that's ok or just use it as a second display. The laptops will be getting updated soon so the refurb prices might drop further.
That's kind of an expensive jump though, that 679 bucks could buy you a nice monitor with money left over. I would just buy a used iMac, there are some pretty incredible deals on eBay.
The laptop comes with a monitor and if you had to get a monitor and kb/mouse for the Mini, the difference in price drops further.
Used models on eBay don't always come with a warranty. Refurbs get a full year and you can extend it to 3 years.
As for the extra cost, like I say it has higher resale value so it evens out.