Not a revolutionary day...sorry

old_machead · January 7, 2002 3:26PM

Look, I have been as excited (and sleepless) as anyone waiting for today's huge announcements. And this iMac is stylish - but this is hardly revolutionary. After the dust started settling, we all have had to look at what is here - and there is nothing here that doesn't already readily exist in several forms - Flat Panel, 60 GB HD, Gig of Ram, last year's low end GeForce - even printing photo albums in hardcover books - this has even been available online for a long time.

Maybe the iPhoto software is better (and obviously cheaper) that many other packages? The hardware certainly is shaped differently - ok... To call this computer upgradeable is a stretch though - maybe processor or ram and hard drive, but as we have found out in these all-in-one-units, when one thing goes wrong, the whole thing goes in for repair - you can't just swap a different monitor out when something happens - or likely even a network card in this case.

I feel like I am throwing water all over these "big" announcements, but at the end of the day, I guess I just see a funky new case design, and, well, not a whole lot more.

/mandolux/ · January 7, 2002 4:28PM

...yeap!

For me, it was iPhoto that made the biggest impact (splash) of the show. The new iMac (iDumpling) is just too ugly. I wonder how long is going to take a new iMac?

old_machead · January 7, 2002 8:01PM

A lot of people are saying they are just going to get a PC - that they can't wait 6 months (or two years), because they work and make a living on their machines too.

I understand that sentiment - so I checked into what a roughly comparable machine would cost. What I found was interesting:

(You can make your own judgements about an Athlon/Windows-based machine vs. OSX - this excercise is simply to compare complete system costs)

CAS: AMD CERTIFIED ATX MEDIUM TOWER CASE 360 WATT(+ 49)

DVDRW CDRW COMBO DRIVE EIDE INT 12X/10X/32X CDRW 2.4X DVD 4.76GB (+448)

CPU: NEW! AMD ATHLON XP-1600+ [1.4GHZ QuantiSpeed] 266 FSB CPU (+159)

FAN: AMD CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK UP TO 1.5GHZ

FLOPPY: MITSUMI 1.44 MB FLOPPY DR (+ 12)

HDD: 40GB UDMA 100 HARD DRIVE 5400 RPM (+95)

KEYBOARD: PS2 MULTIMEDIA INTERNET KEYBOARD (+ 8)

MEMORY: 256 MB SDRAM PC133 (+65)

MODEM: PCI 56K V.90 FAX MODEM W/ VOICE (+ 12)

MOTHERBOARD: SPECIAL!!! AZZA VIA KT-133A 266 MHZ FSB MB 4X AGP* (+80)

MOUSE: PS2 INTERNET MOUSE W/ WHEEL (+ 5)

NETWORK: PCI 32 BIT 10/100 NETWORK CARD (+ 15)

SERVICE: STANDARD 3-YEAR PARTS AND LABOR WARRANTY INCLUDED

SOUND: AC97 SOUND CARD ON BOARD

SPEAKERS: 120 WATT STEREO SPEAKERS (+ 5)

VIDEO: VISIONTEK GEFORCE-2 MX-200 32MB AGP (+ 49)

MONITOR: VIEWSONIC 15 INCHES LCD ACTIVE MATRIX MONITOR VE150 (+399)

Total Cost: $1401.00

ryanthegreat · January 7, 2002 8:09PM

[quote]Originally posted by /mandolux/:

 The new iMac (iDumpling) is just too ugly.<hr></blockquote>

I dont think that I could disagree with you more

norfa · January 7, 2002 9:55PM

Lots of people said the original iMac was ugly! , now and then, that was really easy to say and didn't cost a cent, I'm more likely to listen to the 6 million people who paid the bucks to get one. When I get tired I rest my hand on mine like it was my freind or something. I think the new one is just as amazing. I have a small house, will the new iMac look great in it whereever I put it? I think so! it is the first computer I've seen that would look just as good in a basemet bedroom as an executive office. And going to an 800 G4, you think going from 500 megflops to a couple gigaflops isn't impressive? Maybe you just don't know much about computing. This is a bust out product. I can't wait to start authoring DVD's on one. Remeber, Apple didn't invent computers, Apple made them usefull to ordinary people. Only if you don't understand who Apple are and what they have accomplished are you going to disappointed by a day like today. ANd incidently, I've been waiting for software like iPhoto for years, you can say others have done it, but they did it poorly and I never found a product i would actually pay for, now I don't even have to pay for it.

eman · January 7, 2002 10:01PM

[quote]Originally posted by /mandolux/:

...yeap!

For me, it was iPhoto that made the biggest impact (splash) of the show. The new iMac (iDumpling) is just too ugly. I wonder how long is going to take a new iMac?<hr></blockquote>

I bet you and others will start loving the iMac's design after a while.

cobra · January 7, 2002 10:06PM

I don't remeber Apple using the word "revolutionary".

I don't recall them saying there would be G5's.

I don't remeber them saying there would be a PDA.

I don't remember them saying there would be a tablet.

If anyone has a link to prove that I am wrong, please post it for me.

<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

jimmac · January 7, 2002 10:43PM

No what they said was " Way beyond the rumor sites ".

applenut · January 7, 2002 10:48PM

I think the new iMac is revolutionary. it has changed the face of computers for ever. This is a hing that many imagined 2002 wou futurisistic.

Imagine one of these on everyone's desk. It's amazing

torifile · January 7, 2002 11:11PM

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:

I think the new iMac is revolutionary. it has changed the face of computers for ever. This is a hing that many imagined 2002 wou futurisistic.

Imagine one of these on everyone's desk. It's amazing<hr></blockquote>

Hell, just imagining one on my desk is amazing.

I really, REALLY, had to restrain myself today from ordering one. I even filled out an application for an apple instant loan.

[repeats to himself]

You don't need another computer. You don't need another computer....AHHHH!

old_machead · January 9, 2002 3:49AM

[quote]Originally posted by Cobra:

I don't remeber Apple using the word "revolutionary".

If anyone has a link to prove that I am wrong, please post it for me.

<hr></blockquote>

OK - Here are just a few links from the Apple web site calling the new iMac and its hardware a "revolution" or "revolutionary":

<a href="http://www.apple.com/pr/library/1999/oct/05imac.html"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/pr/library/1999/oct/05imac.html</a>;

<a href="http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/jan/07imac.html"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/jan/07imac.html</a>;

<a href="http://www.apple.com/imac/"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/imac/</a>;

<a href="http://www.apple.com/hotnews/articles/2002/01/mwsf/keynote.html"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/hotnews/articles/2002/01/mwsf/keynote.html</a>;

Hey - a lot of people are going to love this system - I am not even knocking the design - it is just that the design is basically the only new thing Apple is introducing, hardware-wise. If that is worth a premium, great.

cobra · January 9, 2002 5:48AM

Ah, revolutionary Superdrive.

Apple ignited the personal computer revolution.

I am sorry.

br0ck · January 9, 2002 6:26AM

After finally watching the Keynote after I could get a good feed, I noticed one thing that justified the reason why I just put an order in for parts to build my AMD system.

Steve mentioned about what the prices were last year for the same hardware. WTF!! Does anyone see a problem here? Could you imagine <insert PC maker here> saying "Well the 1.4 Pentium is cheaper than last year by $blah blah.blah. 1.4 Pentium??? WTF!! It's not even an option any more. Worse off, that was it's high end model last year, and it's not even offered. The 2.2GHz is offered now!

Listen. I waited and waited and waited.... for AIM to put some muscle in the machine for nearly 2 years. Yes there was some bump-up in clock rates, but let's not kid ourselves alright.

Style over stubstance will only get you so far. Let the "Ghz myth" start!!! I WILL come back to apple once i see them close the Mhz gap without Myths. Meanwhile, keep the light on, and hopefully they'll update the G4 or G5 sooner rather than later. I'll make this G4/350@400 last as long as I can.

old_machead · January 9, 2002 4:55PM

Apple sure did ignite the personal computer revolution - no question. I still have a Mac Lisa working, along with my original SE and Ci (as well as all my newer gear, of course).

When I got into 3d animation and Internet development however, Gil Amelio & Co. had nearly destroyed Apple. Mr. Jobs is about as brilliant a marketer as they come, but no one was developing the kind of software I needed to compete with on the MacOS - and Apple ingnored 3d - really until Maya was ported because of the switch to UNIX. (The choice of OpenGL - 3d cards is still pathetic, however). There were a few good apps, but it was years of waiting to even get these things - and people like me had to make a living and be competitive during this time.

I had to give up platform advocacy a long time ago, if I (and a lot of other people) in my industry were going to survive. I can't just wait around, or buy equipment just because of the logo and OS anymore - believe me - I used to. It was a lot of fun to make fun of Windows users years ago, and tout the obvious dominance of this platform. I had Macs and a rack of Amigas (Lightwave) back then, cranking out things PC users could only dream of. Those days aren't with us any longer, unfortunately.

Apple is not going away, they have made unbelievable strides - even though their market share doesn't really reflect that. And without the evangelists out there, I am sure they would be in much worse shape, so I hope the furvor continues.

Until the software, hardware, performance and costs come into line - for me at least, I will be stuck with an OS I can't be an advocate for, but allows me to reasonably and effectively continue to do what I love to do.

macaddict · January 9, 2002 7:00PM

Sorry, but Gil did not destroy Apple. I read his autobiography, and I recommend you do too...it gives amazing insight on how Amelio lined everything up for success and then Steve Jobs got the credit.

Some quick facts:

Fred Anderson, Jon Rubenstein, Jonathan Ives, and Avie Tevanian were all hired under Amelio.

The 9600, the most expandable Mac ever, was released, along with the 3400, 2400, Newton 2100, 20th Anniversary Mac, and eMate. All fantastic computers, revolutionary in their own time.

He stripped out the crap in the company and got things moving. He cancelled Copland and salvaged the crucial elements and put them into other projects. He got Apple trimmed down and ready to go, and then Steve Jobs took in.

old_machead · January 9, 2002 7:16PM

I did read his autobiography - and every independant report I could find at the time. I was fascinated with the topic, and concerned a great deal with a company I really cared for. Apple was nearly brought down during Amelio's tenure - was he soley responsible? Of course not - but as the head of any company - you have to make tough - and smart decisions. Harware alone doesn't do it. There are financial and business models, there is customer service, and not the least of which - is great marketing.

I don't blame any of the individuals for anything - it takes a great team and a cooperative effort to run a company of any size and make it successful - and a lot more...

applenut · January 9, 2002 7:25PM

[quote]Originally posted by br0ck:



Listen. I waited and waited and waited.... for AIM to put some muscle in the machine for nearly 2 years. Yes there was some bump-up in clock rates, but let's not kid ourselves alright.

Style over stubstance will only get you so far. Let the "Ghz myth" start!!! I WILL come back to apple once i see them close the Mhz gap without Myths. Meanwhile, keep the light on, and hopefully they'll update the G4 or G5 sooner rather than later. I'll make this G4/350@400 last as long as I can.<hr></blockquote>

I can't see how anyone can possibly say the new imac puts style above substance. it has awesome style granted but the substance is there. more so than I think any one with real expectations thought it would be.

and your price and clockspeed comparison of last years machines to this years is apples to oranges. apple was saying apples to apples and from that viewpoint it is a great deal.

look at the iBook from May on. It's clear that Apple will no longer let a successful product sit long without updates and updates that USERS themselves called for. The iBook is amazing. Apple has responded to nearly every demand placed upon the iBook from VGA out, to higher resolution, even a 14 inch model. there's no reason apple won't do something similar to the imac over the year and I think its only a question of when the PowerMacs start to see significant upgrades that the iMac will get to 1Ghz.

I even see a 17 inch LCD eventually being an opion for the high end maybe this summer or right before christmas. this design allows a lot more options for apple like that which the old design did not provide

macaddict · January 9, 2002 7:35PM

[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: MacAddict ]

macaddict · January 9, 2002 7:36PM

[quote]There are financial and business models, there is customer service, and not the least of which - is great marketing.<hr></blockquote>

Gil made some bad decisions?but so has Jobs. Gil worked extremely hard, and got the company going very, very well. The customer service was among the top of the list of PC companies, up from near the bottom. Apple was like a plane in nosedive and out of control, and Gil was put in the hotseat about a thousand feet above the ground, and pulled it under control and was about to level out, and then Jobs hopped in the pilots seat.

Gil outlined some prime goals for Apple and its products: Customer support, Quality Control, Industrial Design, Performace, and Ease of Use.

Apple started out with some of the worst problems...their products were sadly behind, the OSes were buggy, Industrial Design was poor, and quality control was out the window along with customer service. But Amelio and Co turned things around, developed a wonderful team to carry the goals out, and brought us the ultra-expandable 9600 with the easy side door that replaced the ever horrible 8500 mess, the 20th Anniversary Mac (one of the most beautiful computers ever built, IMHO), and brought NeXT in to develop a powerful OS?OS X that we see today. You can also compare the companies that Jobs and Amelio each came from?National Semiconductor and NeXT. Let's see, Jobs had run NeXT into the ground, and Amelio had gotten NS from near bankrupcy to an everlasting success story. Gil was an avid Mac user even before he had anything to do with the company, and Jobs trotted around with an IBM Thinkpad running his own NeXTStep software as Apple's CEO. As I'm sure Fran will back up, Jobs also dumped the Newton and eMate, which with was about to break even and were some fantastic products that paved way for a lot of future development (Palms, PocketPCs, the iBook).

If we didn't have Gil, we'd all be using some other computer right now. Gil made some great contributions to Apple and should not go without getting credit for what he did for the company that we all know and love. Apple brought to us the most powerful computers in the industry, and actually did have the MHz lead, at least in the laptop side of things (maybe desktop too, I'm not sure). And now, Jobs brings us restricted, expensive, underperforming computers.

old_machead · January 9, 2002 7:45PM

[quote] Gil made some bad decisions—but so has Jobs. <hr></blockquote>

Nothing to debate here :cool:

And again, if you read my posts - "I don't blame any of the individuals for anything - it takes a great team and a cooperative effort to run a company of any size and make it successful - and a lot more..."

But MacAddict, keep up the enthusiasm - I really like seeing this level of motivation from people - it can be all too rare these days.

applenut · January 9, 2002 7:48PM

yes MacAddict,

Apple did have the Mhz lead in desktops and powerbooks. a good lead in desktops too.

but then SJ came back and popped in the G3 at slower clockspeeds and guess what? they blew away the 604 and ran cooler than a 603.

[quote]Gil made some great contributions to Apple and should not go without getting credit for what he did for the company that we all know and love. <hr></blockquote>

huh? losing a billion dollars in a single quarter is a great contribution?

[quote]Jobs brings us restricted, expensive, underperforming computers. <hr></blockquote>

compared with Gil era macs Jobs era macs are a bargain or have you forgotten. the 9600 and 9600 could easily cost a buyer upwards of 8,000 dollars. The PowerMac 9500 180/MP I have originally cost something like 9,000 dollars. the TAM originally cost 10,000! they were selling Performas which weren't exactly the pinnacle of quality computers.

TheGil era sucked. it was as if Apple had become Gateway

Not a revolutionary day...sorry

Comments