Let them automate. The investment cost incurred buying, installing and maintaining such cutting edge equipment will outstrip any savings. They'll want to pass on that cost to their customers [Apple, etc] and Apple will walk to a competitor.
Full automation has never been successful at levels worth scrapping human oversight and coordination. Automated control systems are developed and flawed just like human beings. Kinematics is a great subject most M.E. programs never teach, and E.E. curriculum breeze over during a Robotics series.
Taking humans out of the loop is always a huge increase in development and time loss. Marrying the two is where you reach optimization points.
Attempting to extort your staff labor fees by threatening to obsolete humans is asking for your corporation to start churning out crap and later having mass recalls.
Will the ROBOTS self destruct/become suicidal if they fall behind on production? " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Will the ROBOTS self destruct/become suicidal if they fall behind on production? " src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Wow, the comments in this thread have been anything but P.C. These robots won't replace workers but increase production output, which means more workers will still be needed to put together the smaller more intricate parts in the assembly line. The working conditions at Foxconn have improved but only so much as to appease international criticism, the fact still remains that no self respecting westerner would ever work in a place like that. If it wasn't for the very publicized deaths at Foxconn in the first place, the fact of the matter is Apple, HP, Samsung and who ever else uses them would have continued to turn a blind eye. I would like to see manufacturing of these products brought back to their countries of origin. Even if we don't care about what is basically slave labor then maybe how about slowing down China's grab for world domination because at this point though it's only a matter of time when China will be using us for cheap labor. So enjoy those iPad's while you can.
I know journalists aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, but does anyone at AppleInsider know grade 3 math?
The problem is you don't know the implementation so you don't really know how many robots are required per line. Without better quotes it is just a guessing game as to what the output would be. I Actually think he was going out of his way to be a bit vague.
I'd love to see how theses new production lines are implemented. Further I suspect the reason for the robot's is the likely hood of advanced "circuit boards" and other components not suited for human hands.
So if there's no more need for cheap Chinese labor, can Apple move production to the US?
My question exactly! Does Foxxconn realize that it's opening the door for Apple (or anyone else) to buy a few if these robots and install them in the US?
Then Apple can put a sticker on each unit that says "Designed in California. Made in the US. But not by Americans"
If fox can build robots to assemble iPhones then surely Apple can, and if they can they could move everything to America and cut out the chineese completely. But then who would assemble the robots?
Well, one possible new use of unskilled labour might be looking after the elderly, with aging population issues?
Eventually the whole idea of identical mass produced devices will go by the wayside, because it is not ideal. It is the 1800/1900s way of doing things. Ideally, whatever situation you find yourself in, you want the ability to manufacture a custom device for that situation on the spot. e.g. your backpack contains a personal mini-factory.
Anyone know what the cost benefit of running a fully automated line in china vs the us is? I thought the big draw in china was cheap labor -- get rid of that and is it only tax incentives?
The Robots still need to be serviced and repurposed, so the technical level of the worker is elevated while the number of workers is reduced. As I see it Foxxcon gains in being able to handle peaks and valleys of demand easier than with human workers. It's like the olden days when you had a horse you still needed to feed, water, exercise and etc. whether you were going anywhere that week or not. The car made it easier to save money and effort between needs and could go longer and further then a horse could when a higher need popped up.
Another advantage to robots is the high repeatability of results. They don't get bored, tired of have a bad day.
It simply goes back to the need for individuals to prepare themselves for new, possibly different jobs with different skil sets. This means re-education. There's absolutely nothing wrong or unfair about this. It's call progress. If companies can progress, so can and should individuals progress in acquiring new job skills.
I'm all for automatisation, but you forget something : robots are getting better at learning new things, it wont take a long time before it will take less time to automatize a new skill than for an human to acquire it. At this point you'll need to think about another solution to the problem than simple skill acquisition.
Not mentioned is the possibility, and IMO likelihood, that [B]Google technology will now be assisting in the building of iPhones[/B]. :err: Foxconn has been working with them for over a year on this project.
... and without Apple's Foxconn business Google might not be ramping this project up yet. Yeah, they still need each other.
Let them automate. The investment cost incurred buying, installing and maintaining such cutting edge equipment will outstrip any savings. They'll want to pass on that cost to their customers [Apple, etc] and Apple will walk to a competitor.
Full automation has never been successful at levels worth scrapping human oversight and coordination. Automated control systems are developed and flawed just like human beings. Kinematics is a great subject most M.E. programs never teach, and E.E. curriculum breeze over during a Robotics series.
Taking humans out of the loop is always a huge increase in development and time loss. Marrying the two is where you reach optimization points.
Attempting to extort your staff labor fees by threatening to obsolete humans is asking for your corporation to start churning out crap and later having mass recalls.
Um, you do know just how automated the manufacture of many of the components that go into a smartphone is, don't you? No human can solder the leads that connect a modern integrated circuit to its package, for example. Such tasks are performed by machines because they must be. The final assembly of a smartphone is actually a less demanding automation task than the creation of most of the subcomponents that go into it. It's foolish to imagine assembly cannot be economically automated to the same degree the manufacture of its subcomponents currently is. But you are correct that there will still be humans involved, just far fewer than there are currently.
Ultimately, there is, of course, a simple solution to the problem of a reduction in jobs for humans. Less humans. Just slow down the manufacture of humans (see, China's one-child policy) until there is a balance between supply and demand in a future world. Hey, there's even a utopian aspect to this. Less humans means less demand for resources. Resources are more efficiently utilized in an automated manufacturing sector (no need for giant dormitories, cafeterias, food deliveries to said cafeterias, transportation of workers to/from factories (a daily fuel expenditure in contexts where workers commute from their own homes, like in Detroit's automotive factories, for example, etc). Fewer people means less demand for products, which means smaller factories and fewer resources used to supply the aggregate need. Fewer people means lower need for food production, meaning more land available for nature. There's no law that says we need to keep manufacturing humans at the rate we do. A planet with fewer is inherently more sustainable.
Ultimately, there is, of course, a simple solution to the problem of a reduction in jobs for humans. Less humans. Just slow down the manufacture of humans.
Mmm, nah. That’s not how a sane species rolls.
Hey, there's even a utopian aspect to this.
Oh, so even more incentive not to do it.
A planet with fewer is inherently more sustainable.
Some people say, “We only have one planet; we can’t waste it.” Smart people say, “We only have one planet; LET’S GET OFF OUR HINDERS AND FIX THAT.”
Comments
Let them automate. The investment cost incurred buying, installing and maintaining such cutting edge equipment will outstrip any savings. They'll want to pass on that cost to their customers [Apple, etc] and Apple will walk to a competitor.
Full automation has never been successful at levels worth scrapping human oversight and coordination. Automated control systems are developed and flawed just like human beings. Kinematics is a great subject most M.E. programs never teach, and E.E. curriculum breeze over during a Robotics series.
Taking humans out of the loop is always a huge increase in development and time loss. Marrying the two is where you reach optimization points.
Attempting to extort your staff labor fees by threatening to obsolete humans is asking for your corporation to start churning out crap and later having mass recalls.
Will the ROBOTS self destruct/become suicidal if they fall behind on production?
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Will the ROBOTS self destruct/become suicidal if they fall behind on production?
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
Wow, the comments in this thread have been anything but P.C. These robots won't replace workers but increase production output, which means more workers will still be needed to put together the smaller more intricate parts in the assembly line. The working conditions at Foxconn have improved but only so much as to appease international criticism, the fact still remains that no self respecting westerner would ever work in a place like that. If it wasn't for the very publicized deaths at Foxconn in the first place, the fact of the matter is Apple, HP, Samsung and who ever else uses them would have continued to turn a blind eye. I would like to see manufacturing of these products brought back to their countries of origin. Even if we don't care about what is basically slave labor then maybe how about slowing down China's grab for world domination because at this point though it's only a matter of time when China will be using us for cheap labor. So enjoy those iPad's while you can.
The problem is you don't know the implementation so you don't really know how many robots are required per line. Without better quotes it is just a guessing game as to what the output would be. I Actually think he was going out of his way to be a bit vague.
I'd love to see how theses new production lines are implemented. Further I suspect the reason for the robot's is the likely hood of advanced "circuit boards" and other components not suited for human hands.
But any Droid Army would run Android 2.3, and we all know Google can do no evil.
Oops. I meant Star Wars "Trade Federation" droids, not the cheap-copy-of-Apple Google droids.
My question exactly! Does Foxxconn realize that it's opening the door for Apple (or anyone else) to buy a few if these robots and install them in the US?
Then Apple can put a sticker on each unit that says "Designed in California. Made in the US. But not by Americans"
Well, one possible new use of unskilled labour might be looking after the elderly, with aging population issues?
Eventually the whole idea of identical mass produced devices will go by the wayside, because it is not ideal. It is the 1800/1900s way of doing things. Ideally, whatever situation you find yourself in, you want the ability to manufacture a custom device for that situation on the spot. e.g. your backpack contains a personal mini-factory.
The Robots still need to be serviced and repurposed, so the technical level of the worker is elevated while the number of workers is reduced. As I see it Foxxcon gains in being able to handle peaks and valleys of demand easier than with human workers. It's like the olden days when you had a horse you still needed to feed, water, exercise and etc. whether you were going anywhere that week or not. The car made it easier to save money and effort between needs and could go longer and further then a horse could when a higher need popped up.
Another advantage to robots is the high repeatability of results. They don't get bored, tired of have a bad day.
It simply goes back to the need for individuals to prepare themselves for new, possibly different jobs with different skil sets. This means re-education. There's absolutely nothing wrong or unfair about this. It's call progress. If companies can progress, so can and should individuals progress in acquiring new job skills.
I'm all for automatisation, but you forget something : robots are getting better at learning new things, it wont take a long time before it will take less time to automatize a new skill than for an human to acquire it. At this point you'll need to think about another solution to the problem than simple skill acquisition.
... and without Apple's Foxconn business Google might not be ramping this project up yet. Yeah, they still need each other.
Um, you do know just how automated the manufacture of many of the components that go into a smartphone is, don't you? No human can solder the leads that connect a modern integrated circuit to its package, for example. Such tasks are performed by machines because they must be. The final assembly of a smartphone is actually a less demanding automation task than the creation of most of the subcomponents that go into it. It's foolish to imagine assembly cannot be economically automated to the same degree the manufacture of its subcomponents currently is. But you are correct that there will still be humans involved, just far fewer than there are currently.
See my comment (#31).
Mmm, nah. That’s not how a sane species rolls.
Oh, so even more incentive not to do it.
Some people say, “We only have one planet; we can’t waste it.” Smart people say, “We only have one planet; LET’S GET OFF OUR HINDERS AND FIX THAT.”