MacWorld in Perspective: the consumer show

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  • Reply 21 of 37
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    [quote]Originally posted by moki:

    <strong>



    C'mon now -- look at the graphics card, processor speed (G4 as well), the assortment of CD drives available, and that it has an LCD screen. The price seems pretty damn nice to me, to be honest. The original iMac was offered initially at this price as well.



    I predict it will sell very, very well.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I predict it might sell okay if it were available. Not only do we forget that the high end machine is $1800, we forget that the $1299 machine isn't supposed to be available until March!



    Those specs might be great compared to the outdates iMac specs it is replacing but Apple has done nothing to dig themselves out of the hole they are in.



    As it now stands...



    The PowerMacs are a complete joke. No one anywhere is going to buy one.



    The only "new" iMac you can buy right now and have ship within the next 30 days is priced at $1800. It ships with a semi-current videocard but will it be current in March when some of these are just getting started out the door?



    The iBook is a great product. Sells well and I suspect it will continue to do so. Apple should have chipped in the 100 mhz bus on the 500 along with the price drop.



    The PowerMac got a combo drive but also got a nice $200 price hike to go with it.



    All of Apple's competitors are adding features and DROPPING prices. If they are unable to add features, they drop prices. Either way Apple is bucking the trend here with mediocre hardware spec-wise or availability-wise.



    Also consider...



    The G4 is a great processor when compared to the antique G3. The rest of the industry is comparing it to the P4 and Athlon XP. P4 is @2.2 ghz and again where will these chips be in March when the low end iMac is finally shipping.



    Dell is shipping a slimline case available with the same specs as the new iMac (1.6 ghz P4)(except the video card and an inexpensive firewire) TODAY for $1251. Gateway is selling a celeron 1.2 ghz bundle for $999 and again it is selling TODAY. The specs might not be as nice today but we have to compare it to the March iMac.



    As if that weren't breaking the camel's back. They are still 100 mhz machines with SDRAM. Apple is selling $1500 machines (new not outdated, heck not even shipping) with SDRAM and no dvd-r.



    I don't care what type of show it is, be it consumer or pro. The rest of the industry is updating monthly or minimum quarterly. Apple is updating every 6-9 months, and now the updates aren't even that much.



    Nick
  • Reply 22 of 37
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    [quote]Originally posted by moki:

    <strong>The price seems pretty damn nice to me, to be honest. The original iMac was offered initially at this price as well.</strong><hr></blockquote>But there are two ways to gauge price:

    1. value

    2. absolute price



    Like you say, the iMac has great value, because it has a G4 and flat panel and the high end has the SuperDrive, etc.



    But it also has a high absolute price. Some people just don't want to spend $1300 on a computer, especially when the average entry-level for home computers right now is several hundred cheaper.



    Same with the iPod: Great value for what it's got. But lots of people wouldn't spend $400 on an MP3 player.



    And comparing the prices of the 1998 iMac to the 2002 iMac is misleading. Look how much the average price of the home computer has dropped since then.
  • Reply 23 of 37
    proxyproxy Posts: 232member
    iphoto is the biggest thing of the show. I've showed it my family who were stunned by it and had a hard time believing it was free.



    Anyone who's thinking that Apple will leave it's pro range this close to the consumer range is mistaken. Apple is teasing us again, provoking debate, and in the next few weeks will spring some seriously fast stuff on us. Think about it, SJ's consistently said he had listened and given us what we wanted in the imac (G4 , LCD, and superdrive). Don't you think that he'll do exactly the same with the towers.



    Come on and join the party at having the best apps on the planet
  • Reply 24 of 37
    ryukyuryukyu Posts: 449member
    As disappointed as I am about no PowerMac upgrades, I think the iMac with all of its functionality is extremely cool.

    You have to keep in mind that when you're talking about comparing prices with PCs, that you're not getting anything like iTunes, iMovie, iDVD or iPhoto. Damn, that functionality makes the machines well worth their cost!!

    Yes, I would like to see Apple upgrade their machines more often, but where else can you get a computer that delivers the value that you get with Apple? Who else gives you, right out of the box, the ability to edit movies and put them on DVD? Who else give you all of the options, within one applications, that iPhoto has?

    So, being a professional, I want very fast PowerMacs, but I DO see the significance of what was released today, and if it were not for the consumer market, where do you think Apple might be today?

    Just my $.02.

  • Reply 25 of 37
    razzfazzrazzfazz Posts: 728member
    [quote]Originally posted by BRussell:

    <strong>

    And comparing the prices of the 1998 iMac to the 2002 iMac is misleading. Look how much the average price of the home computer has dropped since then.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Hmmm, from what I've seen, the average prices haven't really fallen that much, if at all.



    (Of course, you get more power and features per buck nowadays compared to back then, but that was not the point here.)



    Bye,

    RazzFazz
  • Reply 26 of 37
    kedakeda Posts: 722member
    I think Apple has a very different vision than many of you. The direct comparissons to the PC world mean nothing.



    By now, Apple knows that it cannot under bid the the PC 'consumer' machines. We've all seen the endless posts about what you can get on a PC for x amount of dollars, but the machine you end up with will not be a Mac.



    Until recently, the reasons for using a Mac were disappearing. Windows had copied enough of the Classic Mac interface to be usable and the 'ease' factor had all but vanished. I believe Apple is setting out to distinguish themselves from the rest of the industry. They are answering the question 'why use a Mac.'



    I am also disappointed that new PM systems didn't come out. But if you step back and look at the big picture, you will see that the moves that were made today will have more impact on the computer world than faster G4s.



    Suddenly, the PC makers are at a disadvantage. How can they respond to this iMac...they have no equivelant machine.



    I am blown away by todays announcements. The iMac is simply incredible. The more I think about it, the more I am sure that we will see a Pro-oriented event in the near future.



    Apple played us all. We bought the hype and loved it. Dont be mad.



    Apple may be tricky, but they are not stupid. We will see new PowerMacs soon.
  • Reply 27 of 37
    katekate Posts: 172member
    The iMac idea is to include everything and make it a bundle at a reasonable price.



    The price still is and was unreasonable given the competition and all iApps together are a very weak argument in the marketing battle.



    It is also even more unreasonable given that the competition lowers price and extends specs at a higher rate than Apple does. The current absolute price is that of a mid class machine, not entry level by all measure I think. The performance however is a bit sub midclass IMHO. This does not quite well match the current economics and consumer budgets.



    I fear the gap between Mac and PC has widened a lot now price/performance wise.



    Apple tries to sell these machines as luxury consumer computers with a wow-factor, but I fear this might wear off too soon. Absolute prices are far too high, a sub $1000 Mac is wanted in the product matrix I think.



    I would myself always spend more on something I feel more attracted to, but only up to a certain point and I think the current Apple selling policy stretches this to the limit. Hopefully only for me, maybe there are a lot of consumers with bigger budgets, but I'm in doubt of that.
  • Reply 28 of 37
    alexisalexis Posts: 82member
    [quote]Originally posted by moki:

    <strong>



    C'mon now -- look at the graphics card, processor speed (G4 as well), the assortment of CD drives available, and that it has an LCD screen. The price seems pretty damn nice to me, to be honest. The original iMac was offered initially at this price as well.



    I predict it will sell very, very well.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Agreed. The new iMac will definitely go very well for Apple. I plan on getting one soon, myself!



    --Alexis
  • Reply 29 of 37
    mokimoki Posts: 551member
    [quote]Originally posted by Kate:

    <strong>The iMac idea is to include everything and make it a bundle at a reasonable price.



    The price still is and was unreasonable given the competition and all iApps together are a very weak argument in the marketing battle.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    A friend of mine just bought a nice new home compaq machine, competition to Apple's iMac. It doesn't even come _close_ in terms of the abilities you get from it right out out of the box.



    Consumers think of what they can do with their computers. They aren't like people who obsess on the latest rumours or on MHz.
  • Reply 30 of 37
    razzfazzrazzfazz Posts: 728member
    [quote]Originally posted by Kate:

    <strong>Apple tries to sell these machines as luxury consumer computers with a wow-factor, but I fear this might wear off too soon. Absolute prices are far too high, a sub $1000 Mac is wanted in the product matrix I think.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Well, there actually is one. The old-style iMacs are still available, and start at $799.



    Bye,

    RazzFazz
  • Reply 31 of 37
    majukimajuki Posts: 114member
    My first thought at the keynote today was G5's when Steve announced all iMacs going G4.



    I was expecting them in the one more thing.



    Even without the pro line updated, I was impressed.



    This was clearly a consumer product boost, and I think we'll see the pro line follow suit at Tokyo in March. I believe that this keynote lived up to 80% of the hype. Have no fear, Apple will release killer new G5's. My only disappointment with the new iMac is the 100MHz bus and its use of SO-DIMMs for expansion. I believe that will be boosted in July.
  • Reply 32 of 37
    This Macworld is completely on target for Apple. They have been targeting the digital hub and their hardware and software offerings today clearly executes against that mission. Rather well I might add. The growing market is in the consumer realm and the increase in market share will also come from wooing consumers rather than preaching to the pro level chior. The new imac bests everything out there for the consumer, especially at $1800.



    Considering the role of the iMac in eyes of the press, stockholders and average joes out there it HAD to steal the show today. Anouncements form Microsoft and AMD in the coming days, as well as a PR hookup with Time magazine, the keynote time change, etc. all point to trying to best the competition with a product that they just don't have: an insanely great consumer package.



    Let us not forget that we are nerdy enough to read these forums. We are not the average joes or stockholders.We may salivate over the possibility of a G5 but frankly the iMac has been apples savior, not the high end machines.



    That being said, development of Final Cut, a partnership with Maya, rumored discussions with Avid all point to long term Pro Level strategies. I find it hard to believe that Apple would let this new iMac obsolete most of its pro line for long. If we don't see more pro level announcements tommorrow, I say we see them as soon as the new "sunflower" iMac wilts with the fickle stock holders (i.e. within two months) I also don't see this new iMac as bigger than the original iMac, especially by Steve's standards. It is reinvention not revolution. If Apple is going to live up to the hype they created we will see more tommorrow.



    Analysis: thanks for admirably stealing the show today, now lets see the goods.
  • Reply 33 of 37
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    Apple will never ever ever make their machines on par with the up-front pricing of other computer makers' machines. They do offer more value though. There will always be people who will see a cheaper price up front and buy the cheapest. There are also a lot of people who will see that once you add all the stuff to get the functionality (without the elegance perhaps) of Apple's machines, you have already spent as much or more as that. Let's not cater strictly to the cheapest prices possible. You really do get what you pay for.



    And, no, this does not mean that Apple can overcharge for stuff either. Apple's prices are competitive not bargain basement.
  • Reply 34 of 37
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    um, anyone notice that the 2.2 GHz pentium 4.1 is ALL OVER CNN?!?!? it's beginning to get nauseating all the free press they're getting, just by cranking up the Hz...
  • Reply 35 of 37
    ryukyuryukyu Posts: 449member
    [quote]Originally posted by Kate:

    [QB]



    The price still is and was unreasonable given the competition and all iApps together are a very weak argument in the marketing battle.

    QB]<hr></blockquote>



    You're kidding, right?

    Try to configure a PC with an LCD monitor and a DVD writer and then tell me the price is unreasonable. Then, to be able to do the things you can do with the iApps, you have to go and buy software for the PC.

    While these may not be a top priority for a professional, consumers will no doubt fins a lot of value in them.
  • Reply 36 of 37
    That new iMac is an awesome machine. If I were buying a new Mac, I'd get the iMac. It's got everything I need.



    What I would really like to see is another iMac with a larger LCD display. And this would be very easy for Apple to do, unlike with the older iMac where a complete redesign would be needed.



    Ditch the superdrive, add a 17" LCD, and sell it $1800. I'd be all over that!



    And now that the iMac has a G4, I think it's safe to assume that G5 powermacs will be here soon.
  • Reply 37 of 37
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    hey JYD, i agree... that imac is a sweet machine spec-wise and price point. and, as you mentioned, it will be MUCH easier for them to tack on a 17" lcd once the cost comes down a little, WITHOUT redesigning the entire enclosure again.



    yep, if i was in the market for a mac, the imac is an easy decision now (especially with superdrive).



    i am simply more concerned on behalf of apple's PR, especially with CES going on, MS's new web tablet, and Intel/AMD trying to on-up each other in the wings... but i will trust that steve and apple probably know more about what they're doing (and how to do it) than i ever will.



    [ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: rok ]</p>
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