Apple shoots down Chinese state media accusations targeting iOS privacy, location tracking

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 46
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    antkm1 wrote: »
    Yes robots would help keep production costs down if Apple were to bring full production back to the USA. That would be nice to see, but you're also going to get push-back from Apple haters and politicians saying robots take away good paying jobs from skilled laborers ready and willing to do that work. But I would love to see more production in the US.
    However, that would be kind of a slap in the face to china. A country that Apple needs to keep happy since that population is of great desire for the further growth of the platform. And don't forget China owns a majority of the US debt. So it's a very delicate political and economic ground.

    No, China doesn't even own a majority of foreign owned
    U. S. debt ( at 23%) so that's incorrect.

    http://useconomy.about.com/od/worldeconomy/p/What-Is-the-US-Debt-to-China.htm
  • Reply 22 of 46
    ajbdtc826ajbdtc826 Posts: 190member
    jfc1138 wrote: »
    No, China doesn't even own a majority of foreign owned
    U. S. debt ( at 23%) so that's incorrect.

    http://useconomy.about.com/od/worldeconomy/p/What-Is-the-US-Debt-to-China.htm
    NPV= a lot more than 23%. I would give you the benefit of the doubt since it was only 16% last year which only further proves the point. Sure it's a minority now, China did it right and has us under their their thumb pretty shortly.
  • Reply 23 of 46
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member

    I see many posters here attacking China are either ignorant or selfish.  Do they know all trade news between US and China?  Especially do they know US government especially Congress has repeatedly use national security as excuse to forbid business deals with China?  There are two big examples I remember.  First, Congress has stopped a Chinese company to buy a US oil company with national security as excuse.  Second, Congress has banned Huawei of selling equipment to US using national security as excuse again.  And Huawei has disputed it just like Apple is doing.  I see what CCTV security talk of Apple iPhone is very much a retaliation of the Huawei case.  

  • Reply 24 of 46
    adamcadamc Posts: 583member

    What exports?

     

    US goods are made all over the world and especially in China.

  • Reply 25 of 46
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,409member
    normm wrote: »
    antkm1 wrote: »
    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">And don't forget China owns a majority of the US debt. So it's a very delicate political and economic ground.</span>
    China owns 7% of the US debt.  Also, US treasury bond interest rates are currently so low that it wouldn't make much difference if they dumped that: the inflation-adjusted interest rates on 5 year treasuries has been negative since 2011. And most economists think that if China acted in a way that lowered the value of the dollar a bit, that would actually be a net benefit for the US economy, because of increased exports.

    I think you are confused regarding what moves asset prices: it's buy/sell decisions by the marginal investor, not the average investor. If you know that difference, you'll realize that dumping 7% -- even 1% -- can have a massive price (and hence interest rate) impact.
  • Reply 26 of 46
    froodfrood Posts: 771member

    China issued a similar concern with Android having @90% market share as being a national security issue.  Much as you may love either Android or Apple, the Chinese government is right.

     

    Put the shoe on the other foot.  If 90% of phone users in the US (or Europe, or wherever) used Xiaomi software, and Huawei made a popular phone that they maintained almost complete control of- you betcha the US government would issue a security warning and many people would back them, I sure would.

     

    Frequent locations and improve maps can be disabled, but many people won't, or won't even be aware of it.  Like Google, Apple takes all location data and will only provide it anonymously to third parties... But since just about every App and its grandmother requires permission most people at any time have one App or another that is tracking them.  The data is not anonymous to Apple, which can correlate any user to their past and present Apple ID's.

     

    Not that Apple doesn't act in good faith and keep users information as safe as it can- but from the Chinese governments perspective that is about as secure as Huawei being entrusted with hundreds of millions of US users' information.

     

    Chinese will crack the whip much harder fairly soon citing national security and giving the rapidly growing home team manufacturers a big boost.  

  • Reply 27 of 46
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    antkm1 wrote: »
    Yes robots would help keep production costs down if Apple were to bring full production back to the USA. That would be nice to see, but you're also going to get push-back from Apple haters and politicians saying robots take away good paying jobs from skilled laborers ready and willing to do that work. But I would love to see more production in the US.
    However, that would be kind of a slap in the face to china. A country that Apple needs to keep happy since that population is of great desire for the further growth of the platform. And don't forget China owns a majority of the US debt. So it's a very delicate political and economic ground.

    The truth is hat even with robots, the workforce here would increase substantially for supervision/QA and general things they might not want a robot doing. Hundreds of jobs? Unlikely- more like thousands. That's how they should announce it. Instead of even mentioning robots- just say "bringing manufacturing back stateside creating x thousand jobs" It'd be a win everywhere.
  • Reply 28 of 46
    Don't read too much into what the Chinese government says, they were merely responding to US concerns about Lenovo and Huawai.
  • Reply 29 of 46
    cjcampbellcjcampbell Posts: 116member
    Does anyone else find it ironic that the state media of a totalitarian country worries about 'privacy?'
  • Reply 30 of 46
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    jobs and cook have stated that assembly in china isn't just a matter of cheaper labor. the entire global electronic components industry is there so that's where it makes the most sense to be.
  • Reply 31 of 46
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    aussiepaul wrote: »
    Apple needs to bring back the I'm a Mac style adds but this time with "I'm an iPhone" pitting themselves directly against google and Samsung. Customers like facts, especially when delivered in a comical way. New actors of course. This time the Apple side should be a woman. Siri maybe lol. Apples latest feel good adds make me queasy...

    nope. ads like those are only run by the challenger, not the reigning top player.
  • Reply 32 of 46
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    blazar wrote: »
    Great point... Robotics... Done in the USA... Could spark a new american revolution and correct trade defecits in our favor.

    quick, get this written up and sent to the president.
  • Reply 33 of 46
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    frood wrote: »
    China issued a similar concern with Android having @90% market share as being a national security issue.  Much as you may love either Android or Apple, the Chinese government is right.

    Put the shoe on the other foot.  If 90% of phone users in the US (or Europe, or wherever) used Xiaomi software, and Huawei made a popular phone that they maintained almost complete control of- you betcha the US government would issue a security warning and many people would back them, I sure would.

    Frequent locations and improve maps can be disabled, but many people won't, or won't even be aware of it.  Like Google, Apple takes all location data and will only provide it anonymously to third parties... But since just about every App and its grandmother requires permission most people at any time have one App or another that is tracking them.  The data is not anonymous to Apple, which can correlate any user to their past and present Apple ID's.

    Not that Apple doesn't act in good faith and keep users information as safe as it can- but from the Chinese governments perspective that is about as secure as Huawei being entrusted with hundreds of millions of US users' information.

    Chinese will crack the whip much harder fairly soon citing national security and giving the rapidly growing home team manufacturers a big boost.  

    I guess you didn't read their response very closely. you know, like where they said frequent locations isn't stored anywhere on apples servers and csmt be accessed by apps.
  • Reply 34 of 46
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,656member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post





    Yes robots would help keep production costs down if Apple were to bring full production back to the USA. That would be nice to see, but you're also going to get push-back from Apple haters and politicians saying robots take away good paying jobs from skilled laborers ready and willing to do that work. But I would love to see more production in the US.

    However, that would be kind of a slap in the face to china. A country that Apple needs to keep happy since that population is of great desire for the further growth of the platform. And don't forget China owns a majority of the US debt. So it's a very delicate political and economic ground.

    1.  China does not own a majority of U.S. debt.  As of July 2011, 19% of U.S. debt was held by the Social Security Trust Fund, 11.3% by the U.S. Treasury, 8% by China, 6.6% by U.S. households, 6.4% by Japan, 3.5% by state and local governments and then it goes down from there.   Basically, we owe most of the debt to ourselves. 

     

    2.  The way you solve the political problems of using robots is to not call them robots.   When a factory uses machines to assist workers, no one complains (or even notices).   All of the factories of the American car companies are highly automated.   When we see video of machines doing IC insertion or a machine that dips a circuit board into solder, we don't really think of those machine tools as robots.   But the minute you call them robots or have the machines resemble a human (with recognizable two arms and legs), then everyone gets upset and thinks robots are replacing workers.    

     

    While we're never going to return to the days of factories that employ 50,000 or more workers, if Apple were to build highly automated factories in the U.S., it would result in at least some jobs.   Probably just a few hundred per factory, in order to program and maintain the machines, to bring in source material or ship product out, or to perform QC, but that's better than having those jobs in China and other places.  

     

    3.  IMO, the most ethical way for large manufacturing companies to work (although not necessarily the most efficient) is to manufacture products close to the markets in which they sell those products, so that people in the regions that buy those products can benefit from the associated jobs. This would also save shipping costs and reduce the associated environmental impacts.   So if Apple were to move some manufacturing to the U.S. or Europe or elsewhere, that wouldn't necessarily mean they would end all manufacturing in China.    They would continue to manufacture in China to serve that market.        

  • Reply 35 of 46
    Frequent Locations data, I'd be interested to see a user reset their iPhone and then restore from a backup. I wonder if all that frequent location data is lost and finding your way around takes longer.
  • Reply 36 of 46
    cferrycferry Posts: 26member
    "And don't forget China owns a majority of the US debt."

    This is simply not true. Americans own the largest share of their own debt, much more than China.

    http://www.factcheck.org/2013/11/who-holds-our-debt/
  • Reply 37 of 46
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by NolaMacGuy View Post

    the entire global electronic components industry is there...

     

    Well, assembly is there. The chips are made here.

  • Reply 38 of 46
    boredumbboredumb Posts: 1,418member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post

     



    According to that article, China owns 25% of Foreign-owned U.S. Debt. 

    Try this: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

     

    So the debt is currently just under $17.6 trillion.  A recent post from zoetmb breaks down percentages and appears to use about that figure in doing so.  About 30% of the debt is foreign-owned.

  • Reply 39 of 46
    mhiklmhikl Posts: 471member

    I got bored and stopped reading after "Regarding the new allegations . . ."

    Hope the Chinese have a longer attention span than I.

  • Reply 40 of 46
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    This is the import difference between Apple and Google business models and why people can not compare Apple and Google when it comes to privacy.

    "unlike many companies, our business does not depend on collecting large amounts of personal data about our customers."

    Google whole business model depends on gathering your personal information without the ability to do this they can not prove to Advertiser their ads are getting in front of the right people. Google profits depend on this. Apple profits depend on seeing good hardware and servers.
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