The GeForce 2MX is not a high end video card and never was. They go for around $40 to $60. Because of Apple and Steve Job's amazing RDF, they can make people think that the GF2MX is a very nice card.
But the fact is, it is a budget card today. A year from now, you will not be able to play the latest games acceptably. Quake 3 is what, 2 years old? I just checked out numbers for the new Northwood overclocked to 2.5GHz?with a GF3 500, it pushed over 320 fps in Quake 3. It's craptastically high, and for most people over 60-80fps is not really distinguishable. However, people with a system like that can feel free to pump up the graphics settings so the game looks gorgeous and silky smooth.
I see why Apple put the GF2MX in?it's a good card, not excellent, but it will work for the so-called "consumers" who will pay $1800 for their desktop. The fact that Apple's G4 towers use GF2MXs is just plain embarrassing, considering their price. For the price Apple charges, we should have no less than a GF3.
And Applenut, a GF3 card is not more than an XBox, and seb, I don't know what gaming idiot would pay over $400 for a card, considering even a Gainward custom overclocked Titanium 500 is $313.
BTW, a Gainward GF3 Ti 200 is $165 at NewEgg. A PNY is a few dollars cheaper.
The graphics card in the new iMac is purfect for the target market. The Geforce2MX isnt the latest thing on the block but its a very nice card.
Im running an 'old' TNT2 Ultra in my PC and it even runs every game I want, with a 533 o/c 850mhz Celleron. A 800Mhz G4 and a Geforce2MX is will play every game you throw at it just fine. For quite a long time. And it utterly beats the shit out of the Rage 128 16MB SDR card that used to be in there.
One other problem is that we "know" they will still be using the GF2 for at least the next year and more if we know Apple. The graphics card wont get bumped in 2002.
Is the GF2MX on some sort of very short AGP slot -- like the cube -- or is it fully integrated? I read an article that said the cube was a take off from work being done on the LCD iMac and not the other way around???
I think it's fully integrated, but it may be in some sort of 'very' short card on a standard pin out. That'd be an interesting proposition. The market for expansion would probably be limited but it'd make the job of updating the machine much easier for Apple if they've used a daughter-card and AGP slot similar too the cube.
Ok folks I think there is a legitimate gripe here. This is one thing I hate with Apples consumer level machines. I don't think people realize how many more new mac users would pop up if the graphics cards were user upgradable. This is a major problem, even the towers had few choices untill recently. And don't give me the story that this card is good enough and most consumers dont play games thing, thats bull. Check out Wolfenstein, Quake3...and alot of games that are on the way soon. We can play them, but at reduced res and with all the candy off. The fastest thing to become outdated on my machine is the video card. This geforce2 card is already old. I own four macs right now, and one Athlon for gaming. Its too bad because I would love to play on my mac. I will be buying a new mac tower, wish they were upped at macworld, but thats because I know I will need to upgrade in the future ,...and the future comes fast nowadays. We need to look at this with an open mind. The iMac is great, even though it cant be upgraded, I still love it. But why cant something like the graphics card be upgraded. Its stupid.
The choice of a geforce 2 mx card for the new i mac seem logical. The geforce 2 mx card of my G4 533 is incredibily better than the rage 128 card we used to know. I was not expecting to see a geforce 3 : nearly all basic multimedia cards are geforce 2 mx in the PC market, the geforce 3 is only for high end configuration.
Futhermore, the card of the I mac include DDR memory : that's mean an increase by a factor of 10 to 20 % of the performance (i bet it's the same differential of performance between a geforce sdram and a geforce ddr ram). So i think the new i mac will have better results than my G4 533.
nobody can say when apple will upgrade is video card : only apple knows. Nothing will prevent Apple to upgrade if he thinks he will have more sell.
hmm strange, I thought all Nvidia cards from the GeForce2MX and up used DDRam. Anyways, most comp stores here still ship TNT's and 2MX's so I don't see a problem... sheesh, I'm still running my old Diamond Monster 3DII card in my PeeCee, and have found consoles to be more than upto the task for gaming < except for RPG's>...
More importantly!!! That card would have pumped the price of the iMac so high it wouldn't be so much of a "bargain for a BMW".
[quote]It's so simple. For $1800 a GF2 doesn't cut it. <hr></blockquote>
Considering that NVIDIA created this card specifically for this iMac and considering it actually as higher performance than the normal GF2, what's wrong with it? It has 32 MB of VRAM, 2x the amount that the CRT iMacs had, and considering that I can run ANY game on the Mac platform with my 8 MB video card in my Pismo, what's the problem?
The card in the new iMac is great. I guess you can't please all of the people all of the time, but apparently, you can't please Scott_H ever.
There is a difference between dropping support and no longer upgrading via software. The tray loading iMac is still supported to run properly and better than when new via OS 9.2.2 which is the better than the OS it shipped with. You can run a new technology OS X on it but do not get the OpenGL support you crave for your Rage card. Supported does not equal "All technological advanced features will be updated freely forever."
It is your decision whether or not a three and a half year old computer meets it design/purchase goals or not. It is not fair to say the computer company is unfair to not give you a modern toy (by your definition) three years plus after it was bought. I have a Wallstreet and a Bondi iMac in the house. They still do great and do what I want them to and bought them for. My DP500 does the advanced stuff I need it to. I do not feel your pain even though I have just as much if not more invested as you. Grow up and stop whining, you are in danger of trolling after carrying on this way for almost a year now.
Instead of just being an asshole, why don't you read his post more carefully. There's a lot of good points that you fail to relize.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope. I read it. He goes out of his way to make excuses for Apple. He's on the "blame the user" path.
There is a difference between dropping support and no longer upgrading via software. The tray loading iMac is still supported to run properly and better than when new via OS 9.2.2 which is the better than the OS it shipped with. You can run a new technology OS X on it but do not get the OpenGL support you crave for your Rage card. Supported does not equal "All technological advanced features will be updated freely forever."
It is your decision whether or not a three and a half year old computer meets it design/purchase goals or not. It is not fair to say the computer company is unfair to not give you a modern toy (by your definition) three years plus after it was bought. I have a Wallstreet and a Bondi iMac in the house. They still do great and do what I want them to and bought them for. My DP500 does the advanced stuff I need it to. I do not feel your pain even though I have just as much if not more invested as you. Grow up and stop whining, you are in danger of trolling after carrying on this way for almost a year now.
just shut up. supported means supported. don't start bullshiting. if you disagree who cares. obviously its not you who is affected by it so why do you even care?
Comments
But the fact is, it is a budget card today. A year from now, you will not be able to play the latest games acceptably. Quake 3 is what, 2 years old? I just checked out numbers for the new Northwood overclocked to 2.5GHz?with a GF3 500, it pushed over 320 fps in Quake 3. It's craptastically high, and for most people over 60-80fps is not really distinguishable. However, people with a system like that can feel free to pump up the graphics settings so the game looks gorgeous and silky smooth.
I see why Apple put the GF2MX in?it's a good card, not excellent, but it will work for the so-called "consumers" who will pay $1800 for their desktop. The fact that Apple's G4 towers use GF2MXs is just plain embarrassing, considering their price. For the price Apple charges, we should have no less than a GF3.
And Applenut, a GF3 card is not more than an XBox, and seb, I don't know what gaming idiot would pay over $400 for a card, considering even a Gainward custom overclocked Titanium 500 is $313.
BTW, a Gainward GF3 Ti 200 is $165 at NewEgg. A PNY is a few dollars cheaper.
<strong>
I'm sure more people want to play games on the iMac than burn DVDs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Woah. I finally agree with you about something.
Im running an 'old' TNT2 Ultra in my PC and it even runs every game I want, with a 533 o/c 850mhz Celleron. A 800Mhz G4 and a Geforce2MX is will play every game you throw at it just fine. For quite a long time. And it utterly beats the shit out of the Rage 128 16MB SDR card that used to be in there.
I think it's fully integrated, but it may be in some sort of 'very' short card on a standard pin out. That'd be an interesting proposition. The market for expansion would probably be limited but it'd make the job of updating the machine much easier for Apple if they've used a daughter-card and AGP slot similar too the cube.
Before we complain about the card, did anyone forget that the iBooks still has an ATI Rage 8MB VRAM card. Now, that is pathetic!
[WOW, grammer is bad when sleep]
[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: MajorMatt ]</p>
Futhermore, the card of the I mac include DDR memory : that's mean an increase by a factor of 10 to 20 % of the performance (i bet it's the same differential of performance between a geforce sdram and a geforce ddr ram). So i think the new i mac will have better results than my G4 533.
nobody can say when apple will upgrade is video card : only apple knows. Nothing will prevent Apple to upgrade if he thinks he will have more sell.
In fact, DDR-SDRAM 64 bit-wide is a little slower than SDRAM 128 bit-wide.
The only DDR that rocks is the DDR-SDRAM 128 bit-wide you have on the GeForce3 and the ATI Radeon.
For the GeForce2 MX, both exist (64 and 128 bit, depends on the model you buy). For the new iMac and its 2MX chip, I don't know which is used though.
More importantly!!! That card would have pumped the price of the iMac so high it wouldn't be so much of a "bargain for a BMW".
Considering that NVIDIA created this card specifically for this iMac and considering it actually as higher performance than the normal GF2, what's wrong with it? It has 32 MB of VRAM, 2x the amount that the CRT iMacs had, and considering that I can run ANY game on the Mac platform with my 8 MB video card in my Pismo, what's the problem?
The card in the new iMac is great. I guess you can't please all of the people all of the time, but apparently, you can't please Scott_H ever.
I'd prefer the 6MB Rage that was in the Rev. b and a $100 cheaper iMac. Even $50 cheaper would be worth it, if you don't need to play 3d games.
The problem is not that it's a bad card, it's that there is no way (I assume) to upgrade it.
I wish there was an option to BTO a gaming card, so those of us who don't want one can have a cheaper iMac.
If they're just going to have one card standard, and obviously there are benefits to doing so, this GeForce card is the perfect choice.
Remember that the low-end Wintels have "integrated intel graphics" i.e., no graphics card.
<strong>Scott,
There is a difference between dropping support and no longer upgrading via software. The tray loading iMac is still supported to run properly and better than when new via OS 9.2.2 which is the better than the OS it shipped with. You can run a new technology OS X on it but do not get the OpenGL support you crave for your Rage card. Supported does not equal "All technological advanced features will be updated freely forever."
It is your decision whether or not a three and a half year old computer meets it design/purchase goals or not. It is not fair to say the computer company is unfair to not give you a modern toy (by your definition) three years plus after it was bought. I have a Wallstreet and a Bondi iMac in the house. They still do great and do what I want them to and bought them for. My DP500 does the advanced stuff I need it to. I do not feel your pain even though I have just as much if not more invested as you. Grow up and stop whining, you are in danger of trolling after carrying on this way for almost a year now.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple Apologist (TM)
<strong>
Apple Apologist (TM)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Instead of just being an asshole, why don't you read his post more carefully. There's a lot of good points that you fail to relize.
<strong>
Instead of just being an asshole, why don't you read his post more carefully. There's a lot of good points that you fail to relize.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope. I read it. He goes out of his way to make excuses for Apple. He's on the "blame the user" path.
<strong>Scott,
There is a difference between dropping support and no longer upgrading via software. The tray loading iMac is still supported to run properly and better than when new via OS 9.2.2 which is the better than the OS it shipped with. You can run a new technology OS X on it but do not get the OpenGL support you crave for your Rage card. Supported does not equal "All technological advanced features will be updated freely forever."
It is your decision whether or not a three and a half year old computer meets it design/purchase goals or not. It is not fair to say the computer company is unfair to not give you a modern toy (by your definition) three years plus after it was bought. I have a Wallstreet and a Bondi iMac in the house. They still do great and do what I want them to and bought them for. My DP500 does the advanced stuff I need it to. I do not feel your pain even though I have just as much if not more invested as you. Grow up and stop whining, you are in danger of trolling after carrying on this way for almost a year now.
[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: AirSluf ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
just shut up. supported means supported. don't start bullshiting. if you disagree who cares. obviously its not you who is affected by it so why do you even care?