Schools lament shortcomings of Apple's iPad as some opt instead for Chromebooks

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  • Reply 81 of 337

    Apple perhaps missed an opportunity by not sitting down with these guys to understand their basic requirements. They could have built something to the exact specs. The iPad was never designed to be an educational workhorse. Maybe that is what they will do now...

  • Reply 82 of 337
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

     

    Sounds to me like Apple dropped the ball here.  In their arrogance, they've not bothered to do their homework.  I.e., they should have sent teams out to pilot schools and organizations, and found out what these problems are in advance, and then fixed them.  SHOW the way to connect keyboards, OR offer the MBA. Provide seamless integration with existing educational software, SHOWING that the device works and  how it is administered. TRAIN school IT admins in how to deploy and maintain the software. TEACH developers of edu software how to code and design their apps for the iPad and/or MBA. ENSURE that "problems" are designed so that they can be viewed on an iPad easily.   Apple left too much up to chance here. That's what I mean by "arrogance".  And once they get everything working properly, then send teams out on roadshows to DEMONSTRATE FUNCTION and EASE.

    Instead, it seems Apple has squandered a good bit of goodwill.


    you can get a chrome book or windows laptop with a larger (not better) screen for that same $499 list price.  Apple isn't discounting MBAs that much.

     

    As for the software, I think Apple did assume that authoring would keep up with their innovation, but in reality, most teachers would just want to 'blog' a set of problems, and let their students type and email  in the answers.   A chrome book is fine for that (and gmail and google docs, etc.)

    The biggest thing we are dealing with are teachers moving from books with handouts, handwritten math tess, overheads/chalkboards AND PCs to a fully online classroom.   Apple doesn't have the sort of classroom integration blocking and tackling, that Google Apps has, even share point.   

     

    Yes, Apple jumped into the water, not knowing how deep or shallow it was, assuming that those lumps of PCs in the corner could be easily defeated by digital textbooks and iPads.   The teaching profession wasn't ready, and their '20 years invested' in learning how to use a PC in the classroom, PC based  grading, etc etc, wasn't overcome by whizzy apps and authoring tools...

     

    I think your points are well presented, however, I think Apple wanted the apps and the authoring people to do that legwork.  Sort of chicken and the egg.

     

    This will be several years in the making.   I'm not worried about kids and the school supplied devices.  Colleges, that's another story.

  • Reply 83 of 337
    I'll try to keep this short...

    I'm a middle school / high school math and tech ed teacher who has given district wide professional development on how to use the iPad in the classroom. I've used iPads, iPhones, iPads, Android tablets, MacBooks, and Apple TV in the classroom with students in a variety of ways. I think there are bigger questions educators must ask themselves before purchasing any new tech as it's not cheap and it matters what experiences we offer for students.

    Q: Does my lesson develop 21st century skills?
    A: Yes, if students are genuinely thinking critically, communicating, collaborating, and being creative.

    Q: How will new tech in the classroom support my lesson?
    The answer depends on how creative the teacher is with incorporating technology with lessons in meaningful ways.

    Personally, from experience, I think of "post PC devices" (smart phones & tablets) as the new graphing calculator, but 10 times better!. In it's day, the graphing calculator was this awesome multi tool that students in math classes would love if the teacher knew how to incorporate it in a meaningful way with the lesson, and if the teacher was successful, the student would learn the calculator functions and use it to their advantage to tackle math problems on their own. Fast forward to today, and the post PC devices are becoming not only amazing multi tools useful in all subjects, but they are fun to use and everyone is familiar with how they operate.

    Chromebook? No, it's not a post PC device the same way smart phones and tablets are.

    iPad? Yes, it's the clear dominant post PC device.

    FYI, for those upset about price and keyboards. Show me a student in middle and high school that would have a hard time thumbing in anything on an iPod touch. It's cheaper than an iPad, easy to input with, email, search web, tweet, take pictures, draw, communicate, collaborate, think critically and creative.
  • Reply 84 of 337
    mvigodmvigod Posts: 172member

    I could see the argument that laptops better than a tablet for students.  Tablets also more expensive and smaller screen.  A cheap laptop or chromebook is a better option IMHO.  Add a keyboard to a tablet and you have a very expensive piece of hardware compared to something like a chromebook.  

     

    If apple had a larger 12" ipad that was also very light and the same price point as a chromebook then it would be a good option but that won't ever happen.  

     

    Big headwind for apple.  Mfg's are going to try and get laptops to schools for under 100 bucks or free even.  Hard to compete with that.

  • Reply 85 of 337
    koopkoop Posts: 337member

    I have almost zero doubt that Google with the Chromebook will dominate the educational system within five years or so. I owned a Samsung Chromebook a couple years back and I would consider it perfect for schools and students. iPads are too expensive (especially with keyboard peripherals) and never intended to get real work done. A school that runs on the cheap Google Apps platform and uses the Chromebook ends up saving money on the hardware and software. The only way I can see Apple maybe curbing this is too release an iPad Pro with an Apple designed keyboard and productivity features, or releasing an Macbook Air (Educational Edition) with a lower price tag (and lower specs). Even then they could never catch Google on price.

     

    Not intending to trash Apple here. I have an iPad Air and a Macbook Pro and love them both. But I tried to use my iPad Air with an attached keyboard for class and schoolwork, even with the new Microsoft Office. I simply struggled to edit documents, get my keyboard to pair, or i'd forget to charge the peripheral entirely. So I coughed up and got a Macbook and put Office on it. Obviously I have my own expendable income, and i'd understand a school's hesitation on such expensive pieces of machinery. I think Chromebooks are the middle ground here.

     

    College students should however forget a Chromebook and get a Macbook Air/Pro without hesitation though.

  • Reply 86 of 337
    The meaningful comparison here is the results, not the specs of the equipment. Which students do better? Those from school systems using iPads? Or those using ChromeBooks?
  • Reply 87 of 337
    koopkoop Posts: 337member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    If price was the key the Netbooks would have dominated education 5 years ago.


     

    Netbooks did everything badly. Chromebooks do one thing well. Google Apps just wasn't "there" five years ago either.

  • Reply 88 of 337

    So I'm completely wrong.  Thanks.

  • Reply 89 of 337
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fuzzypaws View Post



    I would tend to think that if Apple is pushing iPads for school or work deployment, a keyboard case/stand would be standard issue. And if it's not, that's a failure of their marketing. Maybe this is the sort of thing they need IBM to help them wrap their heads around.

     

    huh? whats stopping schools/offices from deploying iPad keyboards as standard today? how can that be apple's fault? these aren't secret accessories...

  • Reply 90 of 337
    tommcintommcin Posts: 108member
    The Education systems that do not know about attaching keyboards to iPads says more about the administrators and teachers than the iPads.
  • Reply 91 of 337
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Not if it’s not backed up with fact! But “You’re morons; here’s why...” can be an effective tool at embarrassment, which is one of the greatest teachers of all.


     

    I'm thinking that highly effective teachers and highly effective salespeople will both disagree with you.  As I am neither, I can't really say for sure.

  • Reply 92 of 337
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Originally Posted by navpro33 View Post

    So I'm completely wrong.  Thanks.



    Your evidence that the iPad cannot be used for content creation is where, exactly?

  • Reply 93 of 337
    Wolfram Alpha App, Ithoughts HD app, Keynote, Paper53, and Soulver should be enough to challenge anyone. The thing about any classroom technology that makes it pointless, is that it is not personal technology. If you can't send and receive info via email or whatever, then the instrument is not much of a tool.
  • Reply 94 of 337
    pfisherpfisher Posts: 758member
    sflocal wrote: »
    The chromebookes used in my 13y/o nephew's school system has been a disaster. My nephew always approaches me to help me diagnose/fix his chromebook, resolve WiFi connectivity issues, and spends more time getting fixed (under warranty) than he gets to use it.

    Is this what the school system thinks is "useful"?

    sog35 wrote: »
    What can you do on a chromebook besides surfing the web, email, and google docs?

    I'm being serious here.

    For school kids a chromebook is fine for learning. And far cheaper. You can do a lot more than what you stated. But going back to school a chromebook is fine. An iPad is fine too. Not pushing one or the other.
  • Reply 95 of 337
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

    Im thinking that highly effective teachers...

     

    Certainly you’ll never see it here, but from peers it’s pervasive. Apple should network with corporations that switched to iPads and get THEM to berate the morons who forgo them.

  • Reply 96 of 337
    croprcropr Posts: 1,053member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TechManMike View Post

     

    For instance, if I were in middle school or high school and was given and iPad, my primary method of taking notes wouldn't be typing them, it would be recording the teacher's lesson with a simple voice recorder app.


    This cannot be an efficient.  Reading the notes of a 1 hour lesson takes 10 minutes, listening the recording takes an hour.  In order to fully master the content of the lesson for the exams, you need to read/listen 2 or 3 times, so the audo recording is not really practical.

     

    Anf taking notes is a lot easier on a device with an integrated keyboard and a 13" screen.

  • Reply 97 of 337
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,256member
    sog35 wrote: »
    Thats exactly the problem.

    They do only ONE THING.  Once schools realize this they will dump it. 

    You haven't actually read thru any one of the three links I gave you? I'm pretty sure you never actually tried a Chromebook for even a few minutes either. What are you basing your opinion on?
  • Reply 98 of 337
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Thats exactly the problem.

     

    They do only ONE THING.  Once schools realize this they will dump it. 


    "Marshall's experience with Chrome­books doesn't surprise Bob O'Donnell, who surveyed K–12 Chromebook early adopters for research firm IDC. "We found that the Chromebook's more reliable operation significantly reduced time lost in the classroom due to PC downtime, help desk calls and operating system maintenance," says O'Donnell, IDC's ­program vice president for clients and displays. "This translated to an average savings of $84 per device in productivity."

    That proved to be the case for Iowa's Council Bluffs Community School District, which beta-tested 500 Chromebooks for its 9,000 students in early 2011, before they became commercially available to the masses.

    According to Director of Information Systems David Fringer, CBCSD teachers "transition frequently from lids up to lids down and back." With Chromebooks, he says, "it takes only four to five seconds before the ­computers are up again."

    Today, the district owns about 4,300 Chromebooks. All ninth- through 12th-grade students at CBCSD's two high schools received Chromebooks for the current school year. Students in the other 16 schools also have access to the devices, which are kept on mobile carts. Fringer says the district will expand the one-to-one program to students in grades six through eight during the 2013–2014 school year and to third- through fifth-grade students the following year."

     

    http://www.edtechmagazine.com/k12/article/2012/12/why-schools-are-turning-google-chromebooks

  • Reply 99 of 337
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    You haven't actually read thru any one of the three links I gave you? I'm pretty sure you never actually tried a Chromebook for even a few minutes either. What are you basing your opinion on?

    The prevailing theory here is that "if it's not Apple it's crap."  It's amusing to see folks here shocked that some schools prefer Chromebooks.  They're half the price and apparently do what the schools need.  I love my iPad, but pounding out a research paper on it would be a huge PITA.  Forcing schools to spend $40 on a BT keyboard (or $79 for the Apple version) is not a good idea because it's more money that they don't have.

  • Reply 100 of 337
    Unless you are programming, the iPad should be enough for most students. I am using my iPad for my Master's as well as writing an e-book. What's the issue? My iPad keyboard is fine. Granted I can only type with two to three fingers...

    I would guess to assume the decision to purchase Chromebooks was political instead of objective. I would also assume that most IT Departments are behind in their mobile efforts and the people making the decisions are not well informed.

    It's not rocket science... Chromebooks instead of iPads is just a poor choice by inept IT managers and teachers.

    Good luck with that garbage...
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