Here's a thought for you then, why don't you go back and read the entirety of what was said so that it makes sense to you before you start hailing off and jumping in. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that when you're note taking that you only write what you believe is key, BUT you only do so because to write everything out is impossible! It's impossible to keep up with everything an instructor is saying and I've never said that the purpose of having a computer is to type notes verbatim. But you cannot deny that having the ENTIRE lecture recorded is much better than only having the notes that you were able to capture. Why have only the milk when you can have the whole cow and later decide if you only want milk or milk and beef? I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to understand....like I said, I'm currently in school and I've taken notes both ways, being able to listen back to an entire audio lecture is much more efficient for remember what was said.
That's great for adult learning. Where's the evidence that a 7-year old will learn the same way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Reasoned post -- with very good points!
I suspect that Apple will find a way to compete -- but it won't be on price.
We are just a few years away from when a user will be able to easily tell the machine what it wants it to do -- and the machine will create the apps and interconnections necessary in response ... Think of it as a Siri-driven HyperCard on steroids.
In the meanwhile, i expect we'll see some pretty compelling iPads.
I see iPads becoming more niche devices. So you use them in music class for example.
But by and large when we talk about the education market, children will still need to know how to read and write and think critically. And computers have to be a tool in that, not the end all, be all.
We also live in an era, when governments around the world are very, very strapped for cash. And taxpayers are quite resistant to tax increases. Good luck trying to argue for spending on $500 iPads in this environment. People in this forum sure enjoy their Apple products. But it's quite likely that all of us here, are, on average, better off than the average citizen in our respective countries. Good luck trying to convince voters to have school boards spend boatloads of dollars on iPads when a basic Chromebook will do what the teacher wants. There may well be schools or boards in wealthier areas that can afford it. But for the average school board? I doubt it. I think they'll relegate iPads to niche devices.
Example of the fiscal challenges I'm talking about:
It seems to me that the debate here is so far off what is important … though it may be that I didn't read all of the previous 12,000 posts.
This is a question of thick pad versus thin client notebook modalities. Both have advantages. The thing is that Apple tries to change the industry by driving specific form factors rather than merely meeting customer requests, so they get behind the curve they start occasionally. In schools there are uses for both, but obviously schools can't afford both. As thin clients get to be more popular as connectivity gets to be more stable and the cloud gets to be more sophisticated, then Apple will need to make a Chromebook too. It is already having much of its productivity suite running off the web and stored in the cloud and sandboxed for security and able to edit Word if necessary. They just have to make the device - find the spot between a Kindle and a Chromebook and when it all comes together, call it the iBook … again.
One last point I'd make is the advance of technology will only make this worse for Apple.
Look at the Chromebook PIxel. Imagine an updated version of that available for $300. It won't happen for a few years. But it will happen.
That is doubtful. Just for the reason Google is using pretty expensive materials in those machines. Ultra HD Panel, Aluminum, Glass Touchpad. It is like a Macbook Pro with Chrome OS. However the specs of the Pixel will definitely carry over to a $300 machine in a few years. I suspect Core i3's and 4GB of ram will be the norm soon. I like Chromebooks but I've always felt the Pixel has been something I haven't been able to wrap my head around. It's a pretty extravagant purchase for what you get.
And stop saying iPads cost $500. An individual can get an iPad4 from Apple for $350. I'm pretty sure a bulk order from a school can get it close to $300. Bluetooth keyboards can be had for $40. I just got a Logitech keyboard for my iPadAir for $40 at costco. So in total you can get the whole system for under $400].
I think you might be a few hundred off based on the deal offered to the LA school district.
"The iPad rollout in the L.A. Unified School District (LAUSD) just got a whole lot more expensive.
According to a new report from the Los Angeles Times, the revised school budget for LAUSD shows that each iPad will cost about $100 more than the previously reported price of $678. The new price per iPad is now $770.."
Your links are shit. Don't change the subject. Stick with your original assertion. Prove Google sells your personal information to advertisers or shut the **** up!
What do they do with that information? Are they just gathering it for fun? For charity? For kicks?
Or course they sell it to advertisers. Don't be naive.
None of the above
If Google actually sold your personal information, it would have gone out of business a long time ago as advertisers would just pay once for the data and then use that to target you directly. Google's ad business relies on collecting all your info and then hiding it from everyone else. The second step is not optional. Vendors keep paying Google to advertise on their behalf because only Google knows who is interested in what.
What do they do with that information? Are they just gathering it for fun? For charity? For kicks?
Or course they sell it to advertisers. Don't be naive.
None of the above
If Google actually sold your personal information, it would have gone out of business a long time ago as advertisers would just pay once for the data and then use that to target you directly. Google's ad business relies on collecting all your info and then hiding it from everyone else. The second step is not optional. Vendors keep paying Google to advertise on their behalf because only Google knows who is interested in what.
Thank you for explaining it so clearly. I was getting very upset trying to deal with such ignorance as expressed by sog. Right on! Agree 100%.
If Google actually sold your personal information, it would have gone out of business a long time ago as advertisers would just pay once for the data and then use that to target you directly. Google's ad business relies on collecting all your info and then hiding it from everyone else. The second step is not optional. Vendors keep paying Google to advertise on their behalf because only Google knows who is interested in what.
in other words, yes, they sell your personal details...but they don't sell your ID along with it. but they still sell your details.
If Google actually sold your personal information, it would have gone out of business a long time ago as advertisers would just pay once for the data and then use that to target you directly. Google's ad business relies on collecting all your info and then hiding it from everyone else. The second step is not optional. Vendors keep paying Google to advertise on their behalf because only Google knows who is interested in what.
in other words, yes, they sell your personal details...but they don't sell your ID along with it. but they still sell your details.
Wow! I come back after a good nights sleep and the thread ventured into a Mud-slinger... after I did my inebriated best to lighten it up a bit beforehand :no:
If anyone is still interested in the topic of education and tech, this morning in my RSS feed were a couple of related good reads. Quite a few controversial opinions, but the main thing that I think stands out, is that regardless of technology, children and older students are still being taught using old education methods and are not being sufficiently armed to be successful in the marketplace let alone earn a decent living in the future.
Naturally, Big Government and even Bigger Business interests and markets are laid to blame quite often. However I still maintain that a middle-ground between all of the powers that be needs to be found and it is the educators that need to do the innovating here. That is if they truly care about our young folk.
* A dire lack of good social and communication skills is my summary. The comments are quite interesting, and I was impelled to correct a lazy poster regarding Apple maps.
[I]But there's one major caveat: The respondents overwhelmingly agree that this lovely future where robots do the work and humans design the robots and everyone has leisure time and lots of money only exists in a fantasy future where the school systems pump out a shitload of Elon Musks and Sergey Brins—or, at the very least, people who can reliably work at the companies those guys own.
"The jobs that the robots will leave for humans will be those that require thought and knowledge. In other words, only the best-educated humans will compete with machines," Howard Rheingold, an internet sociologist, told Pew. [B][I][COLOR=red]"And education systems in the US and much of the rest of the world are still sitting students in rows and columns, teaching them to keep quiet and memorize what is told to them, preparing them for life in a 20th century factory.”[/COLOR][/I][/B] [/I]
[@]Dick Applebaum[/@] - Wow! Thanks for that enchanting read about "The Legend of Kamapua'a". I related in a feral sense, and since I've removed all mirrors from my studio... yeah... who knows?!
Memories of my Hawaii junket in the mid 80's reminded me of tinkling in my baggies the first time I saw the North Shore. After learning on the normal 5-10 footers up and down the SoCal/LA coast... I decided to (wisely I believe!) just enjoy the show and scenery. Over a couple of years I'd already eaten enough of Huntington Beach to know I was out of my league. I hear Puerto Rico has some solemn waves for the Senior Leagues, and I don't imagine finding the time to ever make it back to Hawaii. But if I do... oh that hotel looks scrumptious and decadently glorious!
[@]sog35[/@] - Man oh man are you ever pig-headed! (Moderators FYI: I'm staying on topic here... nothing personal)
Have you taken a moment to understand, that all of the links that you're posting to about Google's security/privacy failures and run-ins with governments all over the world... is because [I]everyone[/I] is keeping an eye on them! Everything they do is scrutinized and investigated by multiple security experts the world over. If and when... which they often do... fall out of line and put "individual privacy" at serious risk, they are forced to come clean.
You can't go on singling Google out with your rage, because anyone that goes on the internet is being followed. It's come to light even those that use anonymity services and Tor are NOT safe from prying eyes, cookies and trackers. In fact, it's not so much YOU that compromises your privacy, it's others that you know and communicate with... including your bank, local gov't, assorted agencies and data brokers that are outside of your internet surfing habits, or even Google's robots. They are the one's that you will not be able to control, probably ever. Google on the other hand has a huge target on their backs, as well does Apple, Microsoft, Facebook and Twitter. The first misstep and they're nailed to the wall, so calm down.
If YOU don't want to use anything Google, that is your choice. But preaching, Populist propagandizing, and bending truths to fit your narrative of "Everything Google Is Evil Crap" is not only wrong... but it is tiring ad infinitum.
By all means carry on being pig-headed against racism, foul economics, and analysts... :smokey:
PS. and leave Relic alone. While she's not a Die Hard Apple Freak like some of us, she has earned her right and the respect of many of us here for her informative posts about "the other side". Be happy someone's doing it for you and you don't have to sully yourself.... but then... rather unfortunately, your glass of opinion holds little water then, doesn't it? Silence is a virtue if yelling about things you no nothing about makes you to be a fool. Hearsay can lead to heresy, be careful out there.
Again I'm okay with an INDIVIDUAL choosing to buy a Chromebook and being tracted by Google. Thatsthere personal choice.
But I'm against FORCING 5 year old kids to be tracted with a Chromebook. FORCING them to setup a Google account (that you have to devulge your REAL FULL NAME) and being tract 24 hours a day. That is amoral and wrong.
As usual you are what is wrong. You have no idea what you are talking about. Kids under 13 are not tracked. Google has to comply with the COPPA Act. Google Apps for Education has completely different accounts than regular Google accounts.
Comments
Here's a thought for you then, why don't you go back and read the entirety of what was said so that it makes sense to you before you start hailing off and jumping in. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that when you're note taking that you only write what you believe is key, BUT you only do so because to write everything out is impossible! It's impossible to keep up with everything an instructor is saying and I've never said that the purpose of having a computer is to type notes verbatim. But you cannot deny that having the ENTIRE lecture recorded is much better than only having the notes that you were able to capture. Why have only the milk when you can have the whole cow and later decide if you only want milk or milk and beef? I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to understand....like I said, I'm currently in school and I've taken notes both ways, being able to listen back to an entire audio lecture is much more efficient for remember what was said.
That's great for adult learning. Where's the evidence that a 7-year old will learn the same way?
Reasoned post -- with very good points!
I suspect that Apple will find a way to compete -- but it won't be on price.
We are just a few years away from when a user will be able to easily tell the machine what it wants it to do -- and the machine will create the apps and interconnections necessary in response ... Think of it as a Siri-driven HyperCard on steroids.
In the meanwhile, i expect we'll see some pretty compelling iPads.
I see iPads becoming more niche devices. So you use them in music class for example.
But by and large when we talk about the education market, children will still need to know how to read and write and think critically. And computers have to be a tool in that, not the end all, be all.
We also live in an era, when governments around the world are very, very strapped for cash. And taxpayers are quite resistant to tax increases. Good luck trying to argue for spending on $500 iPads in this environment. People in this forum sure enjoy their Apple products. But it's quite likely that all of us here, are, on average, better off than the average citizen in our respective countries. Good luck trying to convince voters to have school boards spend boatloads of dollars on iPads when a basic Chromebook will do what the teacher wants. There may well be schools or boards in wealthier areas that can afford it. But for the average school board? I doubt it. I think they'll relegate iPads to niche devices.
Example of the fiscal challenges I'm talking about:
http://www.govtech.com/education/Do-Google-Chromebooks-Threaten-Apples-Dominance-in-Education.html
I don't want the data. I just want to know if it is possible to buy it from Google. Seriously, who do I contact at Google to arrange to buy some data?
If you need to ask you dont have enough money.
Google calls not the other way around.
And you know this how?
You are one who claims to be the expert in reading corporate financial reports. You should already know this stuff.
I know exactly how they make money.
They gather as much personal information about you and sell it to advertisers.
Prove it or shut the hell up!
It seems to me that the debate here is so far off what is important … though it may be that I didn't read all of the previous 12,000 posts.
This is a question of thick pad versus thin client notebook modalities. Both have advantages. The thing is that Apple tries to change the industry by driving specific form factors rather than merely meeting customer requests, so they get behind the curve they start occasionally. In schools there are uses for both, but obviously schools can't afford both. As thin clients get to be more popular as connectivity gets to be more stable and the cloud gets to be more sophisticated, then Apple will need to make a Chromebook too. It is already having much of its productivity suite running off the web and stored in the cloud and sandboxed for security and able to edit Word if necessary. They just have to make the device - find the spot between a Kindle and a Chromebook and when it all comes together, call it the iBook … again.
One last point I'd make is the advance of technology will only make this worse for Apple.
Look at the Chromebook PIxel. Imagine an updated version of that available for $300. It won't happen for a few years. But it will happen.
That is doubtful. Just for the reason Google is using pretty expensive materials in those machines. Ultra HD Panel, Aluminum, Glass Touchpad. It is like a Macbook Pro with Chrome OS. However the specs of the Pixel will definitely carry over to a $300 machine in a few years. I suspect Core i3's and 4GB of ram will be the norm soon. I like Chromebooks but I've always felt the Pixel has been something I haven't been able to wrap my head around. It's a pretty extravagant purchase for what you get.
Prove it?
Google gathers a ton of personal information?
Do you agree with that? YES or NO.
What do they do with that information? Are they just gathering it for fun? For charity? For kicks?
Or course they sell it to advertisers. Don't be naive.
Prove it.
I think you might be a few hundred off based on the deal offered to the LA school district.
"The iPad rollout in the L.A. Unified School District (LAUSD) just got a whole lot more expensive.
According to a new report from the Los Angeles Times, the revised school budget for LAUSD shows that each iPad will cost about $100 more than the previously reported price of $678. The new price per iPad is now $770.."
Chromebooks even including the $30/device administration fee can still come in under $300... and come with a three year hardware warranty.
http://www.google.com/edu/chromebooks/#benefits
https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/www.google.com/en/us/intl/en/chromebook/static/pdf/Chromebooks_for_Education.pdf
Google using a picture of your face to sell ads
You cannot prove your allegations so you attempt to shift the discussion when cornered.
If you sign up for Google + and upload your picture and then write reviews, they might use your photo.
Get back on topic and prove that Google sells your personal information to advertisers or shut the **** up!
Wow. So Apple is really screwing over the schools districts then since a student can get in on one for just $400? That down't sound like Apple.
Your links are shit. Don't change the subject. Stick with your original assertion. Prove Google sells your personal information to advertisers or shut the **** up!
Does google gather your information?
Yes or no
Does google send you ads?
Yes or no
Who pays for those ads? Other companies besides Google?
Yes or no
Squirming little **** head. I'm done with you.
Prove it?
Google gathers a ton of personal information?
Do you agree with that? YES or NO.
What do they do with that information? Are they just gathering it for fun? For charity? For kicks?
Or course they sell it to advertisers. Don't be naive.
None of the above
If Google actually sold your personal information, it would have gone out of business a long time ago as advertisers would just pay once for the data and then use that to target you directly. Google's ad business relies on collecting all your info and then hiding it from everyone else. The second step is not optional. Vendors keep paying Google to advertise on their behalf because only Google knows who is interested in what.
Prove it?
Google gathers a ton of personal information?
Do you agree with that? YES or NO.
What do they do with that information? Are they just gathering it for fun? For charity? For kicks?
Or course they sell it to advertisers. Don't be naive.
None of the above
If Google actually sold your personal information, it would have gone out of business a long time ago as advertisers would just pay once for the data and then use that to target you directly. Google's ad business relies on collecting all your info and then hiding it from everyone else. The second step is not optional. Vendors keep paying Google to advertise on their behalf because only Google knows who is interested in what.
Thank you for explaining it so clearly. I was getting very upset trying to deal with such ignorance as expressed by sog. Right on! Agree 100%.
in other words, yes, they sell your personal details...but they don't sell your ID along with it. but they still sell your details.
If Google actually sold your personal information, it would have gone out of business a long time ago as advertisers would just pay once for the data and then use that to target you directly. Google's ad business relies on collecting all your info and then hiding it from everyone else. The second step is not optional. Vendors keep paying Google to advertise on their behalf because only Google knows who is interested in what.
in other words, yes, they sell your personal details...but they don't sell your ID along with it. but they still sell your details.
You can opt out of Google everything
If anyone is still interested in the topic of education and tech, this morning in my RSS feed were a couple of related good reads. Quite a few controversial opinions, but the main thing that I think stands out, is that regardless of technology, children and older students are still being taught using old education methods and are not being sufficiently armed to be successful in the marketplace let alone earn a decent living in the future.
Naturally, Big Government and even Bigger Business interests and markets are laid to blame quite often. However I still maintain that a middle-ground between all of the powers that be needs to be found and it is the educators that need to do the innovating here. That is if they truly care about our young folk.
The Guardian: [URL=http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/07/computer-science-graduates-victims-dirigiste-education?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2&commentpage=1][B]Why computer science graduates can’t talk themselves into jobs[/B]
Maths and science graduates are victims of a dirigiste British education policy that fails both labour market and individual[/URL]
* A dire lack of good social and communication skills is my summary. The comments are quite interesting, and I was impelled to correct a lazy poster regarding Apple maps.
Motherboard - Vice: [URL=http://motherboard.vice.com/read/if-schools-dont-change-robots-will-bring-on-a-permanent-underclass-report][B]If Schools Don't Change, Robots Will Bring On a 'Permanent Underclass': Report[/B]
[/URL]
* My favorite passage from the article:
[I]But there's one major caveat: The respondents overwhelmingly agree that this lovely future where robots do the work and humans design the robots and everyone has leisure time and lots of money only exists in a fantasy future where the school systems pump out a shitload of Elon Musks and Sergey Brins—or, at the very least, people who can reliably work at the companies those guys own.
"The jobs that the robots will leave for humans will be those that require thought and knowledge. In other words, only the best-educated humans will compete with machines," Howard Rheingold, an internet sociologist, told Pew. [B][I][COLOR=red]"And education systems in the US and much of the rest of the world are still sitting students in rows and columns, teaching them to keep quiet and memorize what is told to them, preparing them for life in a 20th century factory.”[/COLOR][/I][/B]
[/I]
[@]PhilBoogie[/@], [@]Dick Applebaum[/@], [@]Relic[/@]
This new gadget looks interesting... the price as well(!)
[URL=http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2014/08/05/ractivs-touch-gesture-control-system-mac-ios-pc-tvs-now-available-buy-75/]Ractiv’s Touch+ multi-platform gesture control device is now available to buy for $75[/URL]
[IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/46835/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
[@]Dick Applebaum[/@] - Wow! Thanks for that enchanting read about "The Legend of Kamapua'a". I related in a feral sense, and since I've removed all mirrors from my studio... yeah... who knows?!
Memories of my Hawaii junket in the mid 80's reminded me of tinkling in my baggies the first time I saw the North Shore. After learning on the normal 5-10 footers up and down the SoCal/LA coast... I decided to (wisely I believe!) just enjoy the show and scenery. Over a couple of years I'd already eaten enough of Huntington Beach to know I was out of my league. I hear Puerto Rico has some solemn waves for the Senior Leagues, and I don't imagine finding the time to ever make it back to Hawaii. But if I do... oh that hotel looks scrumptious and decadently glorious!
Have you taken a moment to understand, that all of the links that you're posting to about Google's security/privacy failures and run-ins with governments all over the world... is because [I]everyone[/I] is keeping an eye on them! Everything they do is scrutinized and investigated by multiple security experts the world over. If and when... which they often do... fall out of line and put "individual privacy" at serious risk, they are forced to come clean.
You can't go on singling Google out with your rage, because anyone that goes on the internet is being followed. It's come to light even those that use anonymity services and Tor are NOT safe from prying eyes, cookies and trackers. In fact, it's not so much YOU that compromises your privacy, it's others that you know and communicate with... including your bank, local gov't, assorted agencies and data brokers that are outside of your internet surfing habits, or even Google's robots. They are the one's that you will not be able to control, probably ever. Google on the other hand has a huge target on their backs, as well does Apple, Microsoft, Facebook and Twitter. The first misstep and they're nailed to the wall, so calm down.
If YOU don't want to use anything Google, that is your choice. But preaching, Populist propagandizing, and bending truths to fit your narrative of "Everything Google Is Evil Crap" is not only wrong... but it is tiring ad infinitum.
By all means carry on being pig-headed against racism, foul economics, and analysts... :smokey:
PS. and leave Relic alone. While she's not a Die Hard Apple Freak like some of us, she has earned her right and the respect of many of us here for her informative posts about "the other side". Be happy someone's doing it for you and you don't have to sully yourself.... but then... rather unfortunately, your glass of opinion holds little water then, doesn't it? Silence is a virtue if yelling about things you no nothing about makes you to be a fool. Hearsay can lead to heresy, be careful out there.
I vote for this post to become a sticky.
Well said, sir. And the fact that you take the time to write this up all the more respect to you.
Again I'm okay with an INDIVIDUAL choosing to buy a Chromebook and being tracted by Google. Thats there personal choice.
But I'm against FORCING 5 year old kids to be tracted with a Chromebook. FORCING them to setup a Google account (that you have to devulge your REAL FULL NAME) and being tract 24 hours a day. That is amoral and wrong.
As usual you are what is wrong. You have no idea what you are talking about. Kids under 13 are not tracked. Google has to comply with the COPPA Act. Google Apps for Education has completely different accounts than regular Google accounts.
+1 Can't believe why some won't take a hint and simply sog off