Drawing on the screen is sort of a niche feature. It is occasionally useful in the manner that it was demonstrated, but for the most part it is rarely needed. If you were doing real art with lots of pressure sensitive brushes, a Wacom would be a much better tool.
I would agree with this. Today I use a Wacom tablet with my MacBook Pro for art. While drawing directly on a Tablet PC was neat, using pen input for anything else in Windows felt like a UX compromise. I mean, the notion of "right-click" was still present, because it was deeply embedded into Windows and desktop applications like Photoshop, but if you had designed a pen computer from the ground up, you wouldn't impose the concept of "right-click". The Apple Newton, for all its faults, had the right idea: use gestures instead (or long-press).
Even though the Surface Pro is better and lighter than the older generation tablet PC hardware, I think you hit the nail on the head: pen input is a niche. And it's definitely not "new" to the Windows platform, despite what Microsoft trolls assert.
iPad 4: 1.44kg. Surface Pro 3: 1.76kg. Your math is off, the difference is 320g. And it's not just the weight, it's also the thickness and the sharp angles. Give it a try and you'll understand.
I think we're getting our numbers from different sources? The Apple store says "Weight (Wi?Fi): 652 g" and on the MS store it says "Weight 0.79 kg". The thickness of the SP3 is tolerable at 9.14 mm which is less then the iPad at 9.4mm.
I think I've had a sample of every Microsoft experimental tablet-PC hybrid. Most of them were pretty horrible. I have nothing against the Surface except that it is a costly compromise. Once they essentially require a keyboard and mouse well why not just give it a proper one? The 3rd gen Surface would probably be a great ultra book PC. I just can't see myself wanting to use it as a tablet, even in a pinch. The iPad Air is as large as any tablet should ever be and its aspect ratio is perfect for portrait mode.
There's more than enough market space for both Apple and Microsoft to be successful. Customers will decide whose vision for a personal computing device fits their needs. I don't know where the belief that one competitor has to completely annilate the others ever became the expectation, even if some competitors want you to believe it. The bottom line is that Microsoft owned more than 90% of the market at one point but they frittered it away with hubris and lack of vision. They have yet to right the ship. Windows 8 is still a train wreck and Surface isn't demonstrating anything other than their inability to separate from their past. How does Microsoft see themselves today? Are they a software powerhouse or a fledgling devices company? I don't think they really know and the Surface device exactly reflects that assertion.
Microsoft is lost and trying to find their way.
I agree with the general thrust of your post, apart from your comment about iPad size.
The iPad Air probably is the ideal size for most people, but I feel that there is a large enough market to make it worth Apple's while to make a bigger one. Seeing as I see iPads completely replacing laptops eventually, there will be scope for significantly larger sizes. I, personally, would love a larger iPad for playing music on the piano. I could then also use it for composing music.
Is that including the keyboard, perchance? (Would you use a Surface exclusively without one?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PScooter63
Is that including the keyboard, perchance? (Would you use a Surface exclusively without one?)
No this is without keyboard. LordJohnWhorfin was talking about the SP3 being cumbersome and heavy as a tablet so I was sticking to those figures without. The keyboard is an extra 4.8mm.
To answer your question I would not own a Surface without keyboard. I would be losing 50%+ potential usability. Which is a shame the keyboard isn't included.
Is that including the keyboard, perchance? (Would you use a Surface exclusively without one?)
Yep that is always the ms surface hustle... They are always dynamically moving the goalposts.
Compare the screen size to the iPad air, take off the keyboard and pen and compare weight to the 13 macbook air and on and on..
It is painfully obvious (to anyone besides the MS fanboys) that the surface can't really compete in real functionality & usability with any of those. This has always been true, MS has been repackaging this all in one tripe (and it has been failing, again and again) for 2 decades, the only people who seem oblivious to this (then and now) are the aforementioned fanboys.
Compare the screen size to the iPad air, take off the keyboard and pen and compare weight to the 13 macbook air and on and on..
It is painfully obvious (to anyone besides the MS fanboys) that the surface can't really compete in real functionality & usability with any of those. This has always been true, MS has been repackaging this all in one tripe (and it has been failing, again and again) for 2 decades, the only people who seem oblivious to this (then and now) are the aforementioned fanboys.
Yes the screen size is larger than the iPad air but why take the accessories off? It's both thinner and lighter with the accessories.
Can you elaborate on why a device running a full desktop operating system cannot compete in 'real functionality' (sounds like something you made up) and usability? Can I run full Office, Photoshop and all the other programs (outnumbering those on the Macbook), do some gaming (both casual and intense) and also watch movies? Yes I can. Sounds functional to me.
In fact you can do those things using it as a laptop but also pop off the keyboard and go as a tablet. Where is it lacking in functionality and usability? Using specifics and not insults like fanboy.
Problem with surface: when not in metro mode, the screen is too small. When in metro mode, tablet is too bulky.
Apple made sacrifices to create the best possible tablet on the market. They said goodbye to their entire software line up. And it paid off, developers filled the gap with all kinds of touch apps for the iPad. Now here we are years later, and still not many great touch apps for Surface. Apple gambled away the x86 architecture in order to make a tablet that looked like it belonged in the future - thin, sleek, awesome battery life, completely built around touch input. All they needed were the developers to get on board. Fast forward a few years, and the developers have. Now we have the perfect vision of the future of computers. Realised by Steve Jobs, and a fantastic group of people behind the scenes. Windows still has its head is in the past, because those were its glory days.
An interesting turn of events when MS has to try to convince people not to buy a Mac.
Interesting too that they appear to have moved into a "Cra**led" campaign and dropped their "Scr**gled" disinformation efforts. I guess Nadella replaced the picture on Ballmer's old dartboard.
The Surface 3 is really excellent. One piece for the keyboard. One piece for the screen. One piece for the kickstand. One piece for the power charger. One piece for the Pen.
Wow this is the world we are all dreaming of. Simplicity and no complexity. But not with the Surface
The surface's problem is Windows, that pos MS OS which just won't go away !
Yes the screen size is larger than the iPad air but why take the accessories off? It's both thinner and lighter with the accessories.
Can you elaborate on why a device running a full desktop operating system cannot compete in 'real functionality' (sounds like something you made up) and usability? Can I run full Office, Photoshop and all the other programs (outnumbering those on the Macbook), do some gaming (both casual and intense) and also watch movies? Yes I can. Sounds functional to me.
In fact you can do those things using it as a laptop but also pop off the keyboard and go as a tablet. Where is it lacking in functionality and usability? Using specifics and not insults like fanboy.
Ok ill bite (though I think you have the apple hater blinders on so nothing anyone shows you will make any difference)
It's not a good laptop even compared to other windows laptops (compared to an 13" air it gets creamed both in performance and battery life) Add to that using a kickstand to prop up the screen of a laptop is laughable at best (usability wise) So it's not a very good laptop (even compared to windows laptops, and it's really not even in the same league as the air).
And, it's not a good tablet, compared to the iPad air it's battery life is limited (most are claiming under 7 hrs for real runtimes as apposed to the iPads which 10-12 hrs (even more playing video) The interface is bad because the only one that really works on a tablet (sorta) is the new windows 8/metro which has little or no software. attempt ion to run regular winnows on a tablet is difficult/clumbersome at best.
It is a disjointed chimera attempting to be all things but actually good at nothing. You really don't see the MS has been attempting to foist a similar product (in one form or another) for 20 years?
(i.e. universal windows desktop on a tablet)
If you can't see that, I really can't help you. I don't think anyone can.
P.S.
Wait after rereading your post; you think the surface is thinner and lighter than an iPad air?
Never-mind the above facts and reasoning, you are obviously in an alternate reality.
Actually it is. I really really like Windows 8.1 and that's coming from a staunch Apple supporter.
Sure Windows 8 HAD some issues but the 8.1 Update 1 has fixed most of them. People are turned off by the lack of Start menu but frankly I abhorred the Start menu. Think about this. If you never pinned an app to the Start menu you had to go through this process to use it:
Start / All Programs / Microsoft Office / Word
With Windows 8 Start Screen you go like this:
Start / Word
Think of it like Launchpad and you've got Windows 8 down pat. It's a much much better platform than Windows 7.
I am not a fan a Surface 3 and I would not buy it, but a Surface3 has USB3 ports and a mini display port so one can connect an exta drive or a big screen to it. So next time check the facts before you post.
In fact you can output to multiple monitors. Not to forget the docking station too allowing more outputs. You can't do that with an iPad so need to purchase a Macbook but there's so many things you can't do on the Macbook so need to buy an iPad. It's a vicious circle of owning multiple devices, where with the Surface you have a tablet and PC in one. It will do everything you need it to. Office productivity, gaming, entertainment. Don't see why all the hate on what is a good product.
Being able to do stuff on a portable device is nothing new. What apple has done is optimize the potibility experience bt lowering the weight and increasing the battery time. This is what sells MBAs and iPads, because most work on portabe devices is not that CPU/GPU intensive.
Ok ill bite (though I think you have the apple hater blinders on so nothing anyone shows you will make any difference)
It's not a good laptop even compared to other windows laptops (compared to an 13" air it gets creamed both in performance and battery life) Add to that using a kickstand to prop up the screen of a laptop is laughable at best (usability wise) So it's not a very good laptop (even compared to windows laptops, and it's really not even in the same league as the air).
And, it's not a good tablet, compared to the iPad air it's battery life is limited (most are claiming under 7 hrs for real runtimes as apposed to the iPads which 10-12 hrs (even more playing video) The interface is bad because the only one that really works on a tablet (sorta) is the new windows 8/metro which has little or no software. attempt ion to run regular winnows on a tablet is difficult/clumbersome at best.
It is a disjointed chimera attempting to be all things but actually good at nothing. You really don't see the MS has been attempting to foist a similar product (in one form or another) for 20 years?
(i.e. universal windows desktop on a tablet)
If you can't see that, I really can't help you. I don't think anyone can.
P.S.
Wait after rereading your post; you think the surface is thinner and lighter than an iPad air?
Never-mind the above facts and reasoning, you are obviously in an alternate reality.
No it's thinner and lighter than the MBA, sorry should have explained it better.
Some of the things you say are true but others would need some sources behind them. For example the MBA creaming the Surface in performance is not supported by any performance comparisons or benchmark test run by multiple tech blogs. Looking at Anandtech, PC Advisor, Engadget, Techradar there is no creaming evident. The MBA is better in some areas but marginally. If performance is a big issue then there is the i7 Surface.
The kickstand is what makes it more usable, not less. It's a tablet form factor with a kickstand that allows it to sit freely in 'laptop mode'. It can sit on the desk, in your lap or on the plane drop table. It also allows full range of motion which is useful for my artistry work where I like to have whatever I'm drawing on at and angle and also allowing my palm to rest on it without interfering. If you feel having a kickstand is unsightly and doesn't fit with the beautiful one-piece device then that's fine, but saying it has usability issues is laughable.
If you don't want to sit at your desk and use the kickstand long-term (who would), then use the docking station and turn it into a more traditional PC.
Compared with the majority of Windows laptops (el cheapos) it is excellent, both in hardware and build quality. There are premium Windows laptops that are better but that takes nothing away from the Surface. I would argue it's the best hybrid on the market. The Lenovo Yoga is the closest.
Sure battery is not as good. Can't argue with that. They'll tweak a bit more out of it.
Spend time with it and the interface works. The 3:2 aspect ratio and time they've spend on optimising scaling means there isn't an issue with classic desktop being too small. You get more information on the screen and in beautiful retina display quality.
MS have been trying for a long time and are getting better products out each year. The idea of a perfect all-in-one device is great in my mind, but we're not there yet. As of now the Surface fits my need of one device, with portability, performance, laptop and tablet modes, a pen, touchscreen and the ability to wind down with a game of something. Now I never have to carry 2 devices (excluding the phone (I confess it's a Lumia 1020)).
I remember seeing a YouTube video of a 100 year old woman who loves with her iPad because its bright screen and large fonts made it possible for her to read books and even write poetry. And it was the first computer she had ever owned, and she was using it like she had always known how to. There are also two-year olds who know how to use an iPad. The way Apple uses the touch screen isn't to be cool or to be a novelty. It's part of a larger effort to simplify human-computer interaction to its essence; to remove technology as a layer between the user and their content. Hence the lack of visible "chrome" in the iOS UI.
But the whole post-PC movement goes beyond the UI. Apple seems to have removed all the artifacts of traditional computing from getting between the user and content. The iPad for example, doesn't impose file management duties on users. I used to remember trying to explain to an adult computer novice what a C: and drive was, and why they had to think about it. Or what defragging was, or why their computer was "slow" or why they couldn't simply turn off the computer using the switch on their surge suppressor. And in retrospect, operating systems and the old PC paradigm of computing just coasted along, never getting substantially easier. The iPad was a chance to make a clean break with the old paradigm, and I think Apple took it to its logical conclusion, and as a result, the iPad is unusually accessible for non-technical types.
Windows fans usually thumb their noses at iPad because it isn't what they expect from a computer, and that's perfectly fine with me. I'm glad Apple didn't slap a touchscreen on a Mac and call it "new"; instead they rethought what a computer could be and created the first truly successful post-PC.
EDIT: Ooops... misread as an Air instead of Macbook Air. . The Pro3 actually weighs less than that Macbook I think.
EDIT2: the Macbook Air is heavier by about half a pound.
Surface Pro 3: 2.42 pounds (with keyboard)
MacBook Air: 2.96 pounds
People have too much incorrect information. If we want to have proper discourse on all these great technology devices then let's get facts straight. I've spent a lot of time here correcting people about weights and sizes. Unbelievable as it is the Surface is very thin and very light.
Comments
I would agree with this. Today I use a Wacom tablet with my MacBook Pro for art. While drawing directly on a Tablet PC was neat, using pen input for anything else in Windows felt like a UX compromise. I mean, the notion of "right-click" was still present, because it was deeply embedded into Windows and desktop applications like Photoshop, but if you had designed a pen computer from the ground up, you wouldn't impose the concept of "right-click". The Apple Newton, for all its faults, had the right idea: use gestures instead (or long-press).
Even though the Surface Pro is better and lighter than the older generation tablet PC hardware, I think you hit the nail on the head: pen input is a niche. And it's definitely not "new" to the Windows platform, despite what Microsoft trolls assert.
iPad 4: 1.44kg. Surface Pro 3: 1.76kg. Your math is off, the difference is 320g. And it's not just the weight, it's also the thickness and the sharp angles. Give it a try and you'll understand.
I think we're getting our numbers from different sources? The Apple store says "Weight (Wi?Fi): 652 g" and on the MS store it says "Weight 0.79 kg". The thickness of the SP3 is tolerable at 9.14 mm which is less then the iPad at 9.4mm.
I agree with the general thrust of your post, apart from your comment about iPad size.
The iPad Air probably is the ideal size for most people, but I feel that there is a large enough market to make it worth Apple's while to make a bigger one. Seeing as I see iPads completely replacing laptops eventually, there will be scope for significantly larger sizes. I, personally, would love a larger iPad for playing music on the piano. I could then also use it for composing music.
The thickness of the SP3 is tolerable at 9.14 mm which is less then the iPad at 9.4mm.
Is that including the keyboard, perchance? (Would you use a Surface exclusively without one?)
Is that including the keyboard, perchance? (Would you use a Surface exclusively without one?)
Is that including the keyboard, perchance? (Would you use a Surface exclusively without one?)
No this is without keyboard. LordJohnWhorfin was talking about the SP3 being cumbersome and heavy as a tablet so I was sticking to those figures without. The keyboard is an extra 4.8mm.
To answer your question I would not own a Surface without keyboard. I would be losing 50%+ potential usability. Which is a shame the keyboard isn't included.
Is that including the keyboard, perchance? (Would you use a Surface exclusively without one?)
Yep that is always the ms surface hustle... They are always dynamically moving the goalposts.
Compare the screen size to the iPad air, take off the keyboard and pen and compare weight to the 13 macbook air and on and on..
It is painfully obvious (to anyone besides the MS fanboys) that the surface can't really compete in real functionality & usability with any of those. This has always been true, MS has been repackaging this all in one tripe (and it has been failing, again and again) for 2 decades, the only people who seem oblivious to this (then and now) are the aforementioned fanboys.
Compare the screen size to the iPad air, take off the keyboard and pen and compare weight to the 13 macbook air and on and on..
It is painfully obvious (to anyone besides the MS fanboys) that the surface can't really compete in real functionality & usability with any of those. This has always been true, MS has been repackaging this all in one tripe (and it has been failing, again and again) for 2 decades, the only people who seem oblivious to this (then and now) are the aforementioned fanboys.
Yes the screen size is larger than the iPad air but why take the accessories off? It's both thinner and lighter with the accessories.
Can you elaborate on why a device running a full desktop operating system cannot compete in 'real functionality' (sounds like something you made up) and usability? Can I run full Office, Photoshop and all the other programs (outnumbering those on the Macbook), do some gaming (both casual and intense) and also watch movies? Yes I can. Sounds functional to me.
In fact you can do those things using it as a laptop but also pop off the keyboard and go as a tablet. Where is it lacking in functionality and usability? Using specifics and not insults like fanboy.
Apple made sacrifices to create the best possible tablet on the market. They said goodbye to their entire software line up. And it paid off, developers filled the gap with all kinds of touch apps for the iPad. Now here we are years later, and still not many great touch apps for Surface. Apple gambled away the x86 architecture in order to make a tablet that looked like it belonged in the future - thin, sleek, awesome battery life, completely built around touch input. All they needed were the developers to get on board. Fast forward a few years, and the developers have. Now we have the perfect vision of the future of computers. Realised by Steve Jobs, and a fantastic group of people behind the scenes. Windows still has its head is in the past, because those were its glory days.
Interesting too that they appear to have moved into a "Cra**led" campaign and dropped their "Scr**gled" disinformation efforts. I guess Nadella replaced the picture on Ballmer's old dartboard.
The Surface 3 is really excellent. One piece for the keyboard. One piece for the screen. One piece for the kickstand. One piece for the power charger. One piece for the Pen.
Wow this is the world we are all dreaming of. Simplicity and no complexity. But not with the Surface
The surface's problem is Windows, that pos MS OS which just won't go away !
It's too big to be a tablet
Yes the screen size is larger than the iPad air but why take the accessories off? It's both thinner and lighter with the accessories.
Can you elaborate on why a device running a full desktop operating system cannot compete in 'real functionality' (sounds like something you made up) and usability? Can I run full Office, Photoshop and all the other programs (outnumbering those on the Macbook), do some gaming (both casual and intense) and also watch movies? Yes I can. Sounds functional to me.
In fact you can do those things using it as a laptop but also pop off the keyboard and go as a tablet. Where is it lacking in functionality and usability? Using specifics and not insults like fanboy.
Ok ill bite (though I think you have the apple hater blinders on so nothing anyone shows you will make any difference)
It's not a good laptop even compared to other windows laptops (compared to an 13" air it gets creamed both in performance and battery life) Add to that using a kickstand to prop up the screen of a laptop is laughable at best (usability wise) So it's not a very good laptop (even compared to windows laptops, and it's really not even in the same league as the air).
And, it's not a good tablet, compared to the iPad air it's battery life is limited (most are claiming under 7 hrs for real runtimes as apposed to the iPads which 10-12 hrs (even more playing video) The interface is bad because the only one that really works on a tablet (sorta) is the new windows 8/metro which has little or no software. attempt ion to run regular winnows on a tablet is difficult/clumbersome at best.
It is a disjointed chimera attempting to be all things but actually good at nothing. You really don't see the MS has been attempting to foist a similar product (in one form or another) for 20 years?
(i.e. universal windows desktop on a tablet)
If you can't see that, I really can't help you. I don't think anyone can.
P.S.
Wait after rereading your post; you think the surface is thinner and lighter than an iPad air?
Never-mind the above facts and reasoning, you are obviously in an alternate reality.
[...]
If you can't see that, I really can't help you. I don't think anyone can.
If only the sales figures agreed with him. But they tell a much different story...
The MacBook Air is also much much lighter than a Surface Pro from what I've seen.
It runs Windows 8. That is not a selling point.
Actually it is. I really really like Windows 8.1 and that's coming from a staunch Apple supporter.
Sure Windows 8 HAD some issues but the 8.1 Update 1 has fixed most of them. People are turned off by the lack of Start menu but frankly I abhorred the Start menu. Think about this. If you never pinned an app to the Start menu you had to go through this process to use it:
Start / All Programs / Microsoft Office / Word
With Windows 8 Start Screen you go like this:
Start / Word
Think of it like Launchpad and you've got Windows 8 down pat. It's a much much better platform than Windows 7.
Yup nearly half the weight of a Pro3.
EDIT: Ooops... misread as an Air instead of Macbook Air. . The Pro3 actually weighs less than that Macbook I think.
EDIT2: the Macbook Air is heavier by about half a pound.
Surface Pro 3: 2.42 pounds (with keyboard)
MacBook Air: 2.96 pounds
Being able to do stuff on a portable device is nothing new. What apple has done is optimize the potibility experience bt lowering the weight and increasing the battery time. This is what sells MBAs and iPads, because most work on portabe devices is not that CPU/GPU intensive.
MS just doesn't GET IT.[/
It's too big to be a tablet
Ok ill bite (though I think you have the apple hater blinders on so nothing anyone shows you will make any difference)
It's not a good laptop even compared to other windows laptops (compared to an 13" air it gets creamed both in performance and battery life) Add to that using a kickstand to prop up the screen of a laptop is laughable at best (usability wise) So it's not a very good laptop (even compared to windows laptops, and it's really not even in the same league as the air).
And, it's not a good tablet, compared to the iPad air it's battery life is limited (most are claiming under 7 hrs for real runtimes as apposed to the iPads which 10-12 hrs (even more playing video) The interface is bad because the only one that really works on a tablet (sorta) is the new windows 8/metro which has little or no software. attempt ion to run regular winnows on a tablet is difficult/clumbersome at best.
It is a disjointed chimera attempting to be all things but actually good at nothing. You really don't see the MS has been attempting to foist a similar product (in one form or another) for 20 years?
(i.e. universal windows desktop on a tablet)
If you can't see that, I really can't help you. I don't think anyone can.
P.S.
Wait after rereading your post; you think the surface is thinner and lighter than an iPad air?
Never-mind the above facts and reasoning, you are obviously in an alternate reality.
No it's thinner and lighter than the MBA, sorry should have explained it better.
Some of the things you say are true but others would need some sources behind them. For example the MBA creaming the Surface in performance is not supported by any performance comparisons or benchmark test run by multiple tech blogs. Looking at Anandtech, PC Advisor, Engadget, Techradar there is no creaming evident. The MBA is better in some areas but marginally. If performance is a big issue then there is the i7 Surface.
The kickstand is what makes it more usable, not less. It's a tablet form factor with a kickstand that allows it to sit freely in 'laptop mode'. It can sit on the desk, in your lap or on the plane drop table. It also allows full range of motion which is useful for my artistry work where I like to have whatever I'm drawing on at and angle and also allowing my palm to rest on it without interfering. If you feel having a kickstand is unsightly and doesn't fit with the beautiful one-piece device then that's fine, but saying it has usability issues is laughable.
If you don't want to sit at your desk and use the kickstand long-term (who would), then use the docking station and turn it into a more traditional PC.
Compared with the majority of Windows laptops (el cheapos) it is excellent, both in hardware and build quality. There are premium Windows laptops that are better but that takes nothing away from the Surface. I would argue it's the best hybrid on the market. The Lenovo Yoga is the closest.
Sure battery is not as good. Can't argue with that. They'll tweak a bit more out of it.
Spend time with it and the interface works. The 3:2 aspect ratio and time they've spend on optimising scaling means there isn't an issue with classic desktop being too small. You get more information on the screen and in beautiful retina display quality.
MS have been trying for a long time and are getting better products out each year. The idea of a perfect all-in-one device is great in my mind, but we're not there yet. As of now the Surface fits my need of one device, with portability, performance, laptop and tablet modes, a pen, touchscreen and the ability to wind down with a game of something. Now I never have to carry 2 devices (excluding the phone (I confess it's a Lumia 1020)).
But the whole post-PC movement goes beyond the UI. Apple seems to have removed all the artifacts of traditional computing from getting between the user and content. The iPad for example, doesn't impose file management duties on users. I used to remember trying to explain to an adult computer novice what a C: and
Windows fans usually thumb their noses at iPad because it isn't what they expect from a computer, and that's perfectly fine with me. I'm glad Apple didn't slap a touchscreen on a Mac and call it "new"; instead they rethought what a computer could be and created the first truly successful post-PC.
Yup nearly half the weight of a Pro3.
EDIT: Ooops... misread as an Air instead of Macbook Air. . The Pro3 actually weighs less than that Macbook I think.
EDIT2: the Macbook Air is heavier by about half a pound.
Surface Pro 3: 2.42 pounds (with keyboard)
MacBook Air: 2.96 pounds
People have too much incorrect information. If we want to have proper discourse on all these great technology devices then let's get facts straight. I've spent a lot of time here correcting people about weights and sizes. Unbelievable as it is the Surface is very thin and very light.