I wonder what percent of the male employees have been with Apple for a significant amount of time. The amount of females in the tech world has dramatically increased over the past 10 years (which is great) but I wonder how many older male employees may skew the data if at all. It would be great to track the timeline.
I've seen stats showing the percentage has declined since the 80s. There's been explosive growth in the tech sector, so by raw numbers, there may be more women, but not by percentages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko
Actually, "diversity for diversity's sake is very damaging. Just not to the people who get a nearly "free ride."
As a while male, born in the United States, I have been shocked as I entered the college and workforce years to discover that the entire system was against me. Going to university cost a lot. I had to work to support myself and school and am still paying off loans. Meanwhile, I noticed the black, hispanic, and especially middle eastern folks were getting mostly free rides with grants. And they were allowed to use the money even for personal support. Meanwhile my loans must be paid in full, even the extra unused portion kept by the school.
My wife of middle eastern descent was constantly offered many benefits by this country to get ahead, with little to no investment.
Me? Perhaps because I'm white and it's expected that I grew up with a silver spoon instead of dirt poor living in the back of a trailer and eating reject food that benevolent restaurant owners so generously provided to my single mom, brother, and I.
You don't think, as a white male, you've never had any advantages? You don't think that maybe those grants are there because they're constantly being turned down for other grants. Maybe you, as an individual, did not find or receive any, but that doesn't mean white males have not been given extra privileges as a whole. But none of that has anything to do with this. We're talking hiring and more importantly, recruitment practices here. Apple feels they aren't reaching significant portions of the population. That doesn't mean they are not qualified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSchlob
Post the applicant rejection numbers, broken down by race / sex. Then MAYBE we'll have something to discuss. Till then, this is all pointless BS.
It's not that simple. Why do you think everybody who was qualified even knew about the job listings?
You have lost all coherency. You are opposed to (innate) discrimination based on appearance but also affirmative action which is supposed to compensate for that.
Yes, I am against discrimination, which includes discrimination as a solution to discrimination.
Same bullshit, different words - how is "latino" an "ethnic group", particularly since MOST hispanic americans are of Spanish origin, therefore caucasian (in the usual profiling parlance)?
Excuse me, I was merely commenting from a scientific perspective. The "races" are often too vague to be of much value as a description. It becomes more common to have an identity, to be part of a community, than to be part of a race. Hispanics are a combination of indigenous and Spanish in varying proportions. Their culture is a blend as well and distinctly different from Spain and from indigenous cultures. I consider Hispanics an ethic group because it is completely different than any other ethnic group.
Another example of why the term ethnic is preferable over race: An African Caribbean person living in Livingston, Guatemala has very little in common with an Aboriginal Australian. That is why anthropologically it is better to refer to them a part of different ethic groups.
Why should affirmative action benefit people of half European descendent, why should they be treated the same as fully black if affirmative action is designed to right past wrongs.
Tell it to the Japanese during WW2. See them yapping around asking for reparations and handouts for crap that either they directly experienced or their immediate family did?
How about being a freakin Jew! See them yapping around for their centuries of slavery and hardship unlike any other race on the planet?
How about you just honor your great great great great great grandpa and his resilience to persevere under a struggle. He was taken against his will and likely sold by his own people into a living hell. Because of that resilience and will to survive, you now get to live in a free country instead of dying of aids or mosquitos. I'm thankful my descendants fled Germany in the late 1800s to America because my line might have died off and I wouldn't be here if they didn't leave at that time. I'm not saying "be thankful for slavery"- but I'm saying- slavery happened- now here we are- let's live our life and be thankful we even have one. I'm not wondering what I can get today because of the hardships my ancestors I never knew faced.
And regardless- who wronged you? No one? My great great great great grandfather harmed your great great great great grandfather? What the heck does that have to do with me? Why am I being punished? And why are you being rewarded? I did nothing- and nothing happened to you!
People who believe in affirmative action and reparations will never succeed simply because they don't have the willpower and ethics to make it on their own. Relying on other people? That makes you a social and economical invalid.
Tell it to the Japanese during WW2. See them yapping around asking for reparations and handouts for crap that either they directly experienced or their immediate family did?
How about being a freakin Jew! See them yapping around for their centuries of slavery and hardship unlike any other race on the planet?
How about you just honor your great great great great great grandpa and his resilience to persevere under a struggle. He was taken against his will and likely sold by his own people into a living hell. Because of that resilience and will to survive, you now get to live in a free country instead of dying of aids or mosquitos. I'm thankful my descendants fled Germany in the late 1800s to America because my line might have died off and I wouldn't be here if they didn't leave at that time. I'm not wondering what I can get today because of the hardships by ancestors I never knew faced.
People who believe in affirmative action and reparations will never succeed simply because they don't have the willpower and ethics to.
Can you be more specific, instead of making a ridiculous broad-brush statement? Why should this be? Are they uninformed about Apple? Illiterate? Do they lack the motivation to find out?
Yes. Women are rejected from the tech world in many ways:
- they get sexually assaulted at work, and HR brushes it off as "cultural misunderstandings" (even when the victim is from the same place) forcing them to quit
- they are treated like secretaries and not assigned harder projects to advance their career, cutting them off from advancing or networking with clients
- networking events are held at bars where they are constantly groped, harassed, and even raped, by colleagues, so they stop going, missing out on opportunity
I've spoken directly to women where this has happened. I've seen other instances too. Where have you been? The stories are out there. They're real. There's a real problem.
Talented people are forced to leave the tech world due to constant harassment and undermining. Even if it doesn't happen at Apple, it happens before people even get to apply at Apple. The tech world is losing smart and talented people. It's Apple's problem, it's the industry's problem, it's everyone in tech's problem.
Yes, you are pretending I have said things that I have not. That’s the definition of fabrication.
...you refuse to actually answer...
If you’d read what is written, you wouldn’t think this.
Saying "no" is not an answer.
And you expect people to want to talk to you at all when you pretend this nonsense?
I don't understand.
So say that from the get-go instead of making crap up.
You are in support of DISCRIMINATION as “recompense” for discrimination. This is psychotic. But let’s return to your original point.
Let’s say that a higheroutgoing qualification is required of an ethnic group than others to receive the same job. Let’s also say that said ethnic group is allowed lowerincoming qualifications than other ethnic groups to achieve the same job opportunity.
Assuming both are true, would this situation not resolve itself? It has internal logic. The job, requiring the same skills regardless of its occupant, would be receiving the same skills, as though person A had received education longer than person B, person A had received said education with lower qualifications than person B. There’s no problem here.
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
"Jewish" isn't a "race", it describes a religion.
Ah, but there are ethnic Jews (if you like, we can call them Hebrews) who share genetic traits. These are the people to which “Jew” is generally referred in these cases.
Yes. Women are rejected from the tech world in many ways:
- they get sexually assaulted at work, and HR brushes it off as "cultural misunderstandings" (even when the victim is from the same place) forcing them to quit
- they are treated like secretaries and not assigned harder projects to advance their career, cutting them off from advancing or networking with clients
- networking events are held at bars where they are constantly groped, harassed, and even raped, by colleagues, so they stop going, missing out on opportunity
I've spoken directly to women where this has happened. I've seen other instances too. Where have you been? The stories are out there. They're real. There's a real problem.
Talented people are forced to leave the tech world due to constant harassment and undermining. Even if it doesn't happen at Apple, it happens before people even get to apply at Apple. The tech world is losing smart and talented people. It's Apple's problem, it's the industry's problem, it's everyone in tech's problem.
While I agree that sexual harrassment is a serious and real issue, you are just insanely (and sanctimoniously) overgeneralizing here. And, you're far from the only person who has "spoken directly to women" on this issue.
Tell me why on Earth I should be forced to pay "Reparations" (liberal code word for "extortion money") to both groups in both cases? I had nothing to do with that and neither did today's Native Americans and a very few Japanese Americans had anything to do with the internment. I don't give a flying f*ck if Apple has 100% white male workforce. If they're the most qualified then so be it.
Excuse me, I was merely commenting from a scientific perspective. The "races" are often too vague to be of much value as a description. It becomes more common to have an identity, to be part of a community, than to be part of a race. Hispanics are a combination of indigenous and Spanish in varying proportions. Their culture is a blend as well and distinctly different from Spain and from indigenous cultures. I consider Hispanics an ethic group because it is completely different than any other ethnic group.
Another example of why the term ethnic is preferable over race: An African Caribbean person living in Livingston, Guatemala has very little in common with an Aboriginal Australian. That is why anthropologically it is better to refer to them a part of different ethic groups.
People in South America and Central Anerica can be of entirely European - from German, to Italian to Spanish and Portuguese, and mixed a European - descent, particularly the further south you go, or mixed racially. The terms used in South America for mixed race are apparantly not comfortable here so I won't list them. If the ethnic group of a person is Spanish ( 80% of Argentina is for instance) then the racial group is white/European. Hispanic can't be above race and an "ethnicity". What you Americans do with all people born South of the rio grande is similar to calling all Americans born north of the rio grande Anglos ( or maybe Hanglos) even if they are Asian, black, white, whatever because the original culture was English.
No, I never said that racism is not a problem in the USA. I said the discrimination is not a huge issue anymore. If somebody is a minority and they're educated and smart, they can get ahead. There is still racism, and there is also a growing racism, coming mainly from minorities and their leftist supporters. Obama and his racially biased administration has probably set back race relations in the US by decades." src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
I would say there is an issue with the numbers being so heavily slanted towards white males but it's not because of an issue with Apple or other companies, but social and economic issues that keep "minorities" and women out of certain fields. If we want a more even distribution we need to correct the core reasons for the imbalance otherwise it's like trying to ebola by giving an aphaeresis (platelet) transfusion.
Thank Garrett Augustus Morgan for the traffic light
Thank Patricia Bath for the Laserphaco Probe for treating cateracts
While there may be few, there were quite a few that made significant contributions to society despite the obstacles they had to overcome. Not disagreeing with you but we should look at the great contributions that have come from the African American community.
If your talking about man to female ratio, look at nurses n teachers. I don't hear anyone complaining that males make up a very small percentage. Each job/career is going to have different interest in males n females. I also don't hear any complains that blacks make up the largest percentage of the NBA. Should the NBA draft based on who is best or who has the right ethnic background.
That's really utopian BS. One just has to look at sports to see that hiring the seemingly 'best' doesn't always turn out that way. Sometimes the person that wasn't even considered but was given a chance turns out to be the 'best' person for the job.
Wait, what!? So, your response is that it is utopian bullsh*t? Let me tell you, as a person in the IT sector, I can tell you from first-hand experience that the problem isn't with the hiring practices (more often than not), it is with the pool of applicants (which is what this discussion first originated about: Apple). Your analogy about sports has no bearing on this discussion other to fan flames about a topic which needs cool, reasonable heads about it.
Also, what the hell is wrong about a utopian mindset? That should be the goal. The idea that everybody gets a fair shake, and can achieve whatever greatness they want; what the hell is wrong with that? the ONLY way to get to that point is to improve the educational system and to encourage other groups (whether we are talking ethiniticity or gender) to get involved in and enjoy the Technology Industry. That requires overhauls and forward thinking; not people who complain about it, whining how it isn't fair, and then not contribute on how to help fix it.
I have been at the hiring desk. I have seen what the hiring pool is in the IT sector. It isn't that I didn't want minorities or females working with me, they just weren't there.
Now, as a thought problem for you to solve (and this will go to show the real problem at hand): You are the hiring manager. You have one position available. you have two applicants: a light-skinned woman and a dark-skinned man. Both are equally qualified. Which one do you choose?
Second problem, and this comes from real word experience, not going to name names, but these are actual qualifications. You have 5 PHP programming positions, and you have to pick the very best from the people here:
Person
Skills
Yrs Experience
A
PHP, MySQL, HTML, CSS
6, 3, 6, 6
B
PHP, HTML, CSS
4, 6, 5
C
Perl, C, HTML
3, 10, 0
D
PHP, Python, Java, C#
0, 4, 2, 2
E
PHP (embedded systems)
5
F
CSS, HTML, JavaScript
6, 6, 4
G
PHP, MySQL, JavaScript, HTML, CSS
7, 10, 8, 8, 6
H
PHP, MySQL, HTML, Flash, ActionScript
5, 1, 6, 10, 10
I
PHP, JavaScript, jQuery, Bootstrap, HTML
3, 7, 5, 2, 7
J
Python, Ruby on Rails, PHP, HTML, Javascript
6, 4, 1, 6, 6
Now, before you see a general breakdown of these people, go ahead and pick which ones you want to hire for your 5 PHP based positions.
A: Male, White
B: Male, White
C: Male, White
Male, White
E: Male, Asian
F: Female, German (heavy accent)
G: Male, White
H: Male, White
I: Male, White
J: Male, African-American
If you played the game right, and you didn't look, you would have picked some combination of A, B, E, G, H, and I. Those were the best candidates. As a hiring manager, are you supposed to pick a minority or a female for the sake of diversity, or do you pick the best qualified? I wanted to hire J (he was hysterical and a really great guy), but his qualifications weren't what we were looking for. C was a really sweet girl who went back to school, but didn't have the experience we were wanting. We hired A, B, E, G, and I (didn't need the Flash heavy guy), because those were the best fit, and not because of any perceived prejudices.
Apple should be striving to improve their breakdown by aiming for 100% white men. Judging by the past sixteen years, the predominantly white, male workforce at Apple has been spectacularly successful; they have clearly shown an aptitude for their work, to put it mildly.
I haven't yet read any of the current 247 posts, but I presume one or two mention the idea of choosing the best man for the job. If those men happen to be 100% black, Mongolian women aged 70-75 with a predilection for murder, then so be it. If they happen to be white guys, as is currently the case, Amen.
No, I never said that racism is not a problem in the USA. I said the discrimination is not a huge issue anymore. If somebody is a minority and they're educated and smart, they can get ahead. There is still racism, and there is also a growing racism, coming mainly from minorities and their leftist supporters. Obama and his racially biased administration has probably set back race relations in the US by decades." src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
My city just rioted because of the discrimination that minorities face in this country. Because of the social unrest, a riot was able to break out and people destroyed and looted a town. A riot broke out. A riot broke out. A riot had a chance to break out because of discrimination. I can say it 50 other ways.
Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Racism is at it's worse in the last 20 years, and you'd be naive to assume that discrimination doesn't come hand in hand with it.
Comments
I wonder what percent of the male employees have been with Apple for a significant amount of time. The amount of females in the tech world has dramatically increased over the past 10 years (which is great) but I wonder how many older male employees may skew the data if at all. It would be great to track the timeline.
I've seen stats showing the percentage has declined since the 80s. There's been explosive growth in the tech sector, so by raw numbers, there may be more women, but not by percentages.
Actually, "diversity for diversity's sake is very damaging. Just not to the people who get a nearly "free ride."
As a while male, born in the United States, I have been shocked as I entered the college and workforce years to discover that the entire system was against me. Going to university cost a lot. I had to work to support myself and school and am still paying off loans. Meanwhile, I noticed the black, hispanic, and especially middle eastern folks were getting mostly free rides with grants. And they were allowed to use the money even for personal support. Meanwhile my loans must be paid in full, even the extra unused portion kept by the school.
My wife of middle eastern descent was constantly offered many benefits by this country to get ahead, with little to no investment.
Me? Perhaps because I'm white and it's expected that I grew up with a silver spoon instead of dirt poor living in the back of a trailer and eating reject food that benevolent restaurant owners so generously provided to my single mom, brother, and I.
You don't think, as a white male, you've never had any advantages? You don't think that maybe those grants are there because they're constantly being turned down for other grants. Maybe you, as an individual, did not find or receive any, but that doesn't mean white males have not been given extra privileges as a whole. But none of that has anything to do with this. We're talking hiring and more importantly, recruitment practices here. Apple feels they aren't reaching significant portions of the population. That doesn't mean they are not qualified.
Post the applicant rejection numbers, broken down by race / sex. Then MAYBE we'll have something to discuss. Till then, this is all pointless BS.
It's not that simple. Why do you think everybody who was qualified even knew about the job listings?
Yes, I am against discrimination, which includes discrimination as a solution to discrimination.
Is it an interview to be a clown? Personally, that seems like an apropos outfit.
Is it an interview to be a clown? Personally, that seems like an apropos outfit.
LOL!
Excuse me, I was merely commenting from a scientific perspective. The "races" are often too vague to be of much value as a description. It becomes more common to have an identity, to be part of a community, than to be part of a race. Hispanics are a combination of indigenous and Spanish in varying proportions. Their culture is a blend as well and distinctly different from Spain and from indigenous cultures. I consider Hispanics an ethic group because it is completely different than any other ethnic group.
Another example of why the term ethnic is preferable over race: An African Caribbean person living in Livingston, Guatemala has very little in common with an Aboriginal Australian. That is why anthropologically it is better to refer to them a part of different ethic groups.
Why should affirmative action benefit people of half European descendent, why should they be treated the same as fully black if affirmative action is designed to right past wrongs.
Tell it to the Japanese during WW2. See them yapping around asking for reparations and handouts for crap that either they directly experienced or their immediate family did?
How about being a freakin Jew! See them yapping around for their centuries of slavery and hardship unlike any other race on the planet?
How about you just honor your great great great great great grandpa and his resilience to persevere under a struggle. He was taken against his will and likely sold by his own people into a living hell. Because of that resilience and will to survive, you now get to live in a free country instead of dying of aids or mosquitos. I'm thankful my descendants fled Germany in the late 1800s to America because my line might have died off and I wouldn't be here if they didn't leave at that time. I'm not saying "be thankful for slavery"- but I'm saying- slavery happened- now here we are- let's live our life and be thankful we even have one. I'm not wondering what I can get today because of the hardships my ancestors I never knew faced.
And regardless- who wronged you? No one? My great great great great grandfather harmed your great great great great grandfather? What the heck does that have to do with me? Why am I being punished? And why are you being rewarded? I did nothing- and nothing happened to you!
People who believe in affirmative action and reparations will never succeed simply because they don't have the willpower and ethics to make it on their own. Relying on other people? That makes you a social and economical invalid.
Tell it to the Japanese during WW2. See them yapping around asking for reparations and handouts for crap that either they directly experienced or their immediate family did?
How about being a freakin Jew! See them yapping around for their centuries of slavery and hardship unlike any other race on the planet?
How about you just honor your great great great great great grandpa and his resilience to persevere under a struggle. He was taken against his will and likely sold by his own people into a living hell. Because of that resilience and will to survive, you now get to live in a free country instead of dying of aids or mosquitos. I'm thankful my descendants fled Germany in the late 1800s to America because my line might have died off and I wouldn't be here if they didn't leave at that time. I'm not wondering what I can get today because of the hardships by ancestors I never knew faced.
People who believe in affirmative action and reparations will never succeed simply because they don't have the willpower and ethics to.
"Jewish" isn't a "race", it describes a religion.
Can you be more specific, instead of making a ridiculous broad-brush statement? Why should this be? Are they uninformed about Apple? Illiterate? Do they lack the motivation to find out?
Yes. Women are rejected from the tech world in many ways:
- they get sexually assaulted at work, and HR brushes it off as "cultural misunderstandings" (even when the victim is from the same place) forcing them to quit
- they are treated like secretaries and not assigned harder projects to advance their career, cutting them off from advancing or networking with clients
- networking events are held at bars where they are constantly groped, harassed, and even raped, by colleagues, so they stop going, missing out on opportunity
I've spoken directly to women where this has happened. I've seen other instances too. Where have you been? The stories are out there. They're real. There's a real problem.
Talented people are forced to leave the tech world due to constant harassment and undermining. Even if it doesn't happen at Apple, it happens before people even get to apply at Apple. The tech world is losing smart and talented people. It's Apple's problem, it's the industry's problem, it's everyone in tech's problem.
It's an ethno religion.
"Jewish" isn't a "race", it describes a religion.
Not really- Its an ethnic group with a common religion
But that doesn't change my point
Yes, you are pretending I have said things that I have not. That’s the definition of fabrication.
...you refuse to actually answer...
If you’d read what is written, you wouldn’t think this.
Saying "no" is not an answer.
And you expect people to want to talk to you at all when you pretend this nonsense?
So say that from the get-go instead of making crap up.
You are in support of DISCRIMINATION as “recompense” for discrimination. This is psychotic. But let’s return to your original point.
Let’s say that a higher outgoing qualification is required of an ethnic group than others to receive the same job. Let’s also say that said ethnic group is allowed lower incoming qualifications than other ethnic groups to achieve the same job opportunity.
Assuming both are true, would this situation not resolve itself? It has internal logic. The job, requiring the same skills regardless of its occupant, would be receiving the same skills, as though person A had received education longer than person B, person A had received said education with lower qualifications than person B. There’s no problem here.
Ah, but there are ethnic Jews (if you like, we can call them Hebrews) who share genetic traits. These are the people to which “Jew” is generally referred in these cases.
Do you see that bold word? You think it's unjust to provide advantages to systematically disadvantaged social groups? Shame on you.
While I agree that sexual harrassment is a serious and real issue, you are just insanely (and sanctimoniously) overgeneralizing here. And, you're far from the only person who has "spoken directly to women" on this issue.
You're simply conflating things.
ever heard of World War 2?
ever heard of trail of tears?
Tell me why on Earth I should be forced to pay "Reparations" (liberal code word for "extortion money") to both groups in both cases? I had nothing to do with that and neither did today's Native Americans and a very few Japanese Americans had anything to do with the internment. I don't give a flying f*ck if Apple has 100% white male workforce. If they're the most qualified then so be it.
People in South America and Central Anerica can be of entirely European - from German, to Italian to Spanish and Portuguese, and mixed a European - descent, particularly the further south you go, or mixed racially. The terms used in South America for mixed race are apparantly not comfortable here so I won't list them. If the ethnic group of a person is Spanish ( 80% of Argentina is for instance) then the racial group is white/European. Hispanic can't be above race and an "ethnicity". What you Americans do with all people born South of the rio grande is similar to calling all Americans born north of the rio grande Anglos ( or maybe Hanglos) even if they are Asian, black, white, whatever because the original culture was English.
You said racism isn't a problem in American
No, I never said that racism is not a problem in the USA. I said the discrimination is not a huge issue anymore. If somebody is a minority and they're educated and smart, they can get ahead. There is still racism, and there is also a growing racism, coming mainly from minorities and their leftist supporters. Obama and his racially biased administration has probably set back race relations in the US by decades.
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
I would say there is an issue with the numbers being so heavily slanted towards white males but it's not because of an issue with Apple or other companies, but social and economic issues that keep "minorities" and women out of certain fields. If we want a more even distribution we need to correct the core reasons for the imbalance otherwise it's like trying to ebola by giving an aphaeresis (platelet) transfusion.
Benjamin Bannekr
George Washington Carver
Ernest Everett Just
Archibald Alexander
Dr. Charles Richard Drew
Emmet Chappelle
James West
Mae Jemison
Marie Maynard Daly
Patricia Bath
Prof. Samuel Massie
etc, etc, etc
Thank Garrett Augustus Morgan for the traffic light
Thank Patricia Bath for the Laserphaco Probe for treating cateracts
While there may be few, there were quite a few that made significant contributions to society despite the obstacles they had to overcome. Not disagreeing with you but we should look at the great contributions that have come from the African American community.
That's really utopian BS. One just has to look at sports to see that hiring the seemingly 'best' doesn't always turn out that way. Sometimes the person that wasn't even considered but was given a chance turns out to be the 'best' person for the job.
Wait, what!? So, your response is that it is utopian bullsh*t? Let me tell you, as a person in the IT sector, I can tell you from first-hand experience that the problem isn't with the hiring practices (more often than not), it is with the pool of applicants (which is what this discussion first originated about: Apple). Your analogy about sports has no bearing on this discussion other to fan flames about a topic which needs cool, reasonable heads about it.
Also, what the hell is wrong about a utopian mindset? That should be the goal. The idea that everybody gets a fair shake, and can achieve whatever greatness they want; what the hell is wrong with that? the ONLY way to get to that point is to improve the educational system and to encourage other groups (whether we are talking ethiniticity or gender) to get involved in and enjoy the Technology Industry. That requires overhauls and forward thinking; not people who complain about it, whining how it isn't fair, and then not contribute on how to help fix it.
I have been at the hiring desk. I have seen what the hiring pool is in the IT sector. It isn't that I didn't want minorities or females working with me, they just weren't there.
Now, as a thought problem for you to solve (and this will go to show the real problem at hand): You are the hiring manager. You have one position available. you have two applicants: a light-skinned woman and a dark-skinned man. Both are equally qualified. Which one do you choose?
Second problem, and this comes from real word experience, not going to name names, but these are actual qualifications. You have 5 PHP programming positions, and you have to pick the very best from the people here:
Now, before you see a general breakdown of these people, go ahead and pick which ones you want to hire for your 5 PHP based positions.
C: Male, White
E: Male, Asian
G: Male, White
I: Male, White
If you played the game right, and you didn't look, you would have picked some combination of A, B, E, G, H, and I. Those were the best candidates. As a hiring manager, are you supposed to pick a minority or a female for the sake of diversity, or do you pick the best qualified? I wanted to hire J (he was hysterical and a really great guy), but his qualifications weren't what we were looking for. C was a really sweet girl who went back to school, but didn't have the experience we were wanting. We hired A, B, E, G, and I (didn't need the Flash heavy guy), because those were the best fit, and not because of any perceived prejudices.
Tim Cook's right.
Apple should be striving to improve their breakdown by aiming for 100% white men. Judging by the past sixteen years, the predominantly white, male workforce at Apple has been spectacularly successful; they have clearly shown an aptitude for their work, to put it mildly.
I haven't yet read any of the current 247 posts, but I presume one or two mention the idea of choosing the best man for the job. If those men happen to be 100% black, Mongolian women aged 70-75 with a predilection for murder, then so be it. If they happen to be white guys, as is currently the case, Amen.
No, I never said that racism is not a problem in the USA. I said the discrimination is not a huge issue anymore. If somebody is a minority and they're educated and smart, they can get ahead. There is still racism, and there is also a growing racism, coming mainly from minorities and their leftist supporters. Obama and his racially biased administration has probably set back race relations in the US by decades.
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
My city just rioted because of the discrimination that minorities face in this country. Because of the social unrest, a riot was able to break out and people destroyed and looted a town. A riot broke out. A riot broke out. A riot had a chance to break out because of discrimination. I can say it 50 other ways.
Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Racism is at it's worse in the last 20 years, and you'd be naive to assume that discrimination doesn't come hand in hand with it.