I don't mean to make this personal, but when people are diagnosed with breast cancer, many times a mastectomy is done rather than chemo or if chemo didn't work. He had a brain disease so in his mind he saw suicide was the only solution. Perhaps therapy or drugs didn't work.
I think it was the alcohol and he just didn't get help as depression and alcohol are a deadly mix.
Why now, Solipsismx, is my logic, he must have felt like committing suicide in the past, what stopped him before.
That's an unanswerable question but one reason could be fear of killing himself in the past. Another could be having some hope to hold onto in the past. Yet another could be a further detonation of something that could be considered either nature or nurture that finally culminated into a perfect storm of despair. The potential reasons are excessive and to claim otherwise is an ignorant statement.
That's an unanswerable question but one reason could be fear of killing himself in the past. Another could be having some hope to hold onto in the past. Yet another could be a further detonation of something that could be considered either nature or nurture that finally culminated into a perfect storm of despair. The potential reasons are excessive and to claim otherwise is an ignorant statement.
Fair enough and to be honest I really don't want too explore the reasons why. I'll bow out here, with no further comments on the matter. It's a very touchy subject and I don't want to come off as heartless anymore then I already have. We lost a great comedian and we should celebrate his body of work and wonderful personality he so generously shared with the world. To his family I offer my deepest condolence.
I will say this: just like you can't go from heathy to stage 4 cancer overnight (AFAIK), you don't know the depths of depression he was suffering prior. It could have been a manageable baseline until something triggered a deeper descent.
I will say this: just like you can't go from heathy to stage 4 cancer overnight (AFAIK), you don't know the depths of depression he was suffering prior. It could have been a manageable baseline until something triggered a deeper descent.
I'm really done here Jungmark, I shouldn't have ever commented in the first place as I have very strong feelings about people with children and other obligations who decide they had enough with it and take their own life. But it's not my place to judge, it's his creator, I just feel really sad for the friends and family he left behind, so again I will bow out, I'm sorry if my comments made anyone angry or feel uneasy.
Though I will say this, it really seem your making an excuse for suicide, that it's okay as long as the person is deeply depressed, it's not jungmark.
I appreciate all the comments and insights on Robin Williams, deep depression, life and addictions, especially from those who have some insight into the condition. A friend sent me a link for an article that offers some deep insight, a perspective that I found helpful. Do a search for the article "Carrie Fisher on Robin Williams: He was the Opposite of Selfish". I am a retired psychotherapist and former addiction and trauma specialist and this is the first time I've come across such a spot-on perspective.
I'm really done here Jungmark, I shouldn't have ever commented in the first place as I have very strong feelings about people with children and other obligations who decide they had enough with it and take their own life. But it's not my place to judge, it's his creator, I just feel really sad for the friends and family he left behind, so again I will bow out, I'm sorry if my comments made anyone angry or feel uneasy.
Though I will say this, it really seem your making an excuse for suicide, that it's okay as long as the person is deeply depressed, it's not jungmark.
I am not angry at you and I don't condone what he did. But I've never been that depressed. Sometimes you get tired of fighting.
Do we, as society, get upset at people who have DNR requests? Why don't they want to keep fighting? Why do people have living wills?
I am not angry at you and I don't condone what he did. But I've never been that depressed. Sometimes you get tired of fighting.
Do we, as society, get upset at people who have DNR requests? Why don't they want to keep fighting? Why do people have living wills?
Or assisted suicide for the terminally ill whom will just continue to suffer and get worse.
I'm really done here Jungmark, I shouldn't have ever commented in the first place as I have very strong feelings about people with children and other obligations who decide they had enough with it and take their own life. But it's not my place to judge, it's his creator, I just feel really sad for the friends and family he left behind, so again I will bow out, I'm sorry if my comments made anyone angry or feel uneasy.
You shouldn't be done with it because you do feel strongly about it. You have a position so defend it, otherwise it's just giving up.
Though I will say this, it really seem your making an excuse for suicide, that it's okay as long as the person is deeply depressed, it's not jungmark.
He's not making an excuse for suicide but pointing out the complexity of the situation that may lead one to see that as their only option.
For example, we would all say that stealing and homocide are bad. But what if you stole to feed your family as a last resort and killed to defend your family from being killed. All of a sudden these generalized statements become considerably more complex with very little qualification.
If [@]jungmark[/@] was at Williams' house on Sunday night — due to the stated rigor mortis by his PA at 11:45am I assume he happened the previous night — I don't think he'd tell Williams to go for it. I think he would do what he can to prevent it from happening.
Well I have cancer, breast cancer to be exact and though there were times where I begged God to take my life and even threatened God that if he didn't do it, I would, the thought of what my actions would do to my family stopped me. It would have been very easy for me to have OD'd on morphine. Look, we all have our weak moments, some more then others but Its when we are at our lowest point that defines who we are. I fully understand that Robin suffered day in and day with his illness but he simply gave up because of a single moment in lapse of judgment and weakness. He was thinking about himself and his suffering and not about the pain he was about to unleash onto his family, friends and fans. If his disease was so debilitating, had zero control over his actions, why did it take 63 years for him to kill himself, no, he was aware of what he was doing, he chose to give into his demon, when he should have dialed 911.
My thoughts go out to his family during this time.
Thank you very much for posting this. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
I only wish my father had thought of the rest of us like you do your family. Maybe he wouldn't have taken his life. But I guess he, like Robin Williams, was too far gone to think of anyone else.
And yes to the one who said that Williams's family must be going through hell right now. They are, as we did. May God comfort them and may their friends be very close.
It's easy to think that a man who was so full of talent and laughter should have been happy, but it's not always so.
Thank you very much for posting this. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
I only wish my father had thought of the rest of us like you do your family. Maybe he wouldn't have taken his life. But I guess he, like Robin Williams, was too far gone to think of anyone else.
And yes to the one who said that Williams's family must be going through hell right now. They are, as we did. May God comfort them and may their friends be very close.
It's easy to think that a man who was so full of talent and laughter should have been happy, but it's not always so.
I was also the one who said his family must be going through hell, and they are. Like what you and your family did, probably still are, which I can only thank God only to imagine. I'm so sorry that this happened to you, it's so easy to get wrapped up in the sensationalism of the person who committed this horrible act of selfishness, especially when it's a celebrity of Robin Williams stature and forget about the lives they left in utter ruin in their wake. Thank you for sharing and giving us a prospective from the other side of such a horrible ordeal.
I was also the one who said his family must be going through hell, and they are. Like what you and your family did, probably still are, which I can only thank God only to imagine. I'm so sorry that this happened to you, it's so easy to get wrapped up in the sensationalism of the person who committed this horrible act of selfishness, especially when it's a celebrity of Robin Williams stature and forget about the lives they left in utter ruin in their wake. Thank you for sharing and giving us a prospective from the other side of such a horrible ordeal.
You're welcome. I often say that if you want to ruin the lives of those closest to you for many many years, suicide is the best way.
And while I don't like to speak badly of someone like Robin Williams, you're exactly right in saying that this was a "horrible act of selfishness". There is no act that's more selfish than suicide. What got me through my father's suicide, and maybe this will help others, was to have it explained to me that when a person reaches this point, he or she is thinking only, and I mean only of himself or herself. There's no reason for those around him or her to blame themselves, or to say "If only I had . . .".
I hope that this is some sort of comfort to those who have had to deal with the suicide of someone who was maybe less famous than Williams, but more loved by them.
Now let's look at more Apple product news! A much more cheerful subject! (most of the time )
People who commit suicide are chickens who do not want to face life with it's ups and downs.Williams was a brilliant entertainer but a selfish man who cared nothing about his family and what they are going through now.His own self denial about life and his never ending wants about his movies made him do this .There are certain religions where suicide is a no no.
People who commit suicide are chickens who do not want to face life with it's ups and downs.Williams was a brilliant entertainer but a selfish man who cared nothing about his family and what they are going through now.His own self denial about life and his never ending wants about his movies made him do this .There are certain religions where suicide is a no no.
It's not possible to completely understand another person's reality. All that is possible is for us to project our own experiences and understanding onto their actions.
People, motivations and values are very complicated.
We don't know what's going on in his mind. Depression is a mental disease. It's not a "case of the Mondays". This is not just ups and downs, it's a bottomless pit of despair. Again, I don't condone what he did and of course his family is going through hell.
People who commit suicide are chickens who do not want to face life with it's ups and downs.Williams was a brilliant entertainer but a selfish man who cared nothing about his family and what they are going through now.His own self denial about life and his never ending wants about his movies made him do this .There are certain religions where suicide is a no no.
People who believe this do not understand what goes on in the mind of someone who commits suicide. Do you really think it's "the easy way out" for people like this to kill themselves? As you say, this is taboo in certain religions, which means that those people don't do it because they think that death is a better alternative than life. It's simply because life has nothing more for them.
Of course I'm not condoning suicide, in any way, shape, or form, but to call people who do it "chickens" is unfair and insensitive. To say that Williams cared nothing about his family is also unfair. I'm sure he cared very much for his family, but as I've already posted here, people who reach this point see nothing but themselves. They no longer have the ability to reasonably think through the consequences of their actions.
Incidentally, it was revealed by Williams' wife that Robin was going through the beginning stages of Parkinson's disease. That may have pushed him over the edge.
Comments
I don't mean to make this personal, but when people are diagnosed with breast cancer, many times a mastectomy is done rather than chemo or if chemo didn't work. He had a brain disease so in his mind he saw suicide was the only solution. Perhaps therapy or drugs didn't work.
I think it was the alcohol and he just didn't get help as depression and alcohol are a deadly mix.
That's an unanswerable question but one reason could be fear of killing himself in the past. Another could be having some hope to hold onto in the past. Yet another could be a further detonation of something that could be considered either nature or nurture that finally culminated into a perfect storm of despair. The potential reasons are excessive and to claim otherwise is an ignorant statement.
That's an unanswerable question but one reason could be fear of killing himself in the past. Another could be having some hope to hold onto in the past. Yet another could be a further detonation of something that could be considered either nature or nurture that finally culminated into a perfect storm of despair. The potential reasons are excessive and to claim otherwise is an ignorant statement.
Fair enough and to be honest I really don't want too explore the reasons why. I'll bow out here, with no further comments on the matter. It's a very touchy subject and I don't want to come off as heartless anymore then I already have. We lost a great comedian and we should celebrate his body of work and wonderful personality he so generously shared with the world. To his family I offer my deepest condolence.
I will say this: just like you can't go from heathy to stage 4 cancer overnight (AFAIK), you don't know the depths of depression he was suffering prior. It could have been a manageable baseline until something triggered a deeper descent.
I'm really done here Jungmark, I shouldn't have ever commented in the first place as I have very strong feelings about people with children and other obligations who decide they had enough with it and take their own life. But it's not my place to judge, it's his creator, I just feel really sad for the friends and family he left behind, so again I will bow out, I'm sorry if my comments made anyone angry or feel uneasy.
Though I will say this, it really seem your making an excuse for suicide, that it's okay as long as the person is deeply depressed, it's not jungmark.
I appreciate all the comments and insights on Robin Williams, deep depression, life and addictions, especially from those who have some insight into the condition. A friend sent me a link for an article that offers some deep insight, a perspective that I found helpful. Do a search for the article "Carrie Fisher on Robin Williams: He was the Opposite of Selfish". I am a retired psychotherapist and former addiction and trauma specialist and this is the first time I've come across such a spot-on perspective.
I am not angry at you and I don't condone what he did. But I've never been that depressed. Sometimes you get tired of fighting.
Do we, as society, get upset at people who have DNR requests? Why don't they want to keep fighting? Why do people have living wills?
Or assisted suicide for the terminally ill whom will just continue to suffer and get worse.
You shouldn't be done with it because you do feel strongly about it. You have a position so defend it, otherwise it's just giving up.
He's not making an excuse for suicide but pointing out the complexity of the situation that may lead one to see that as their only option.
For example, we would all say that stealing and homocide are bad. But what if you stole to feed your family as a last resort and killed to defend your family from being killed. All of a sudden these generalized statements become considerably more complex with very little qualification.
If [@]jungmark[/@] was at Williams' house on Sunday night — due to the stated rigor mortis by his PA at 11:45am I assume he happened the previous night — I don't think he'd tell Williams to go for it. I think he would do what he can to prevent it from happening.
Let's see if Apple does the same when Montel Williams dies. Bunch of racists¡
Who is that?
Switzerland is one of the only countries that offer this.
Thank you very much for posting this. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
I only wish my father had thought of the rest of us like you do your family. Maybe he wouldn't have taken his life. But I guess he, like Robin Williams, was too far gone to think of anyone else.
And yes to the one who said that Williams's family must be going through hell right now. They are, as we did. May God comfort them and may their friends be very close.
It's easy to think that a man who was so full of talent and laughter should have been happy, but it's not always so.
I was also the one who said his family must be going through hell, and they are. Like what you and your family did, probably still are, which I can only thank God only to imagine. I'm so sorry that this happened to you, it's so easy to get wrapped up in the sensationalism of the person who committed this horrible act of selfishness, especially when it's a celebrity of Robin Williams stature and forget about the lives they left in utter ruin in their wake. Thank you for sharing and giving us a prospective from the other side of such a horrible ordeal.
I was also the one who said his family must be going through hell, and they are. Like what you and your family did, probably still are, which I can only thank God only to imagine. I'm so sorry that this happened to you, it's so easy to get wrapped up in the sensationalism of the person who committed this horrible act of selfishness, especially when it's a celebrity of Robin Williams stature and forget about the lives they left in utter ruin in their wake. Thank you for sharing and giving us a prospective from the other side of such a horrible ordeal.
You're welcome. I often say that if you want to ruin the lives of those closest to you for many many years, suicide is the best way.
And while I don't like to speak badly of someone like Robin Williams, you're exactly right in saying that this was a "horrible act of selfishness". There is no act that's more selfish than suicide. What got me through my father's suicide, and maybe this will help others, was to have it explained to me that when a person reaches this point, he or she is thinking only, and I mean only of himself or herself. There's no reason for those around him or her to blame themselves, or to say "If only I had . . .".
I hope that this is some sort of comfort to those who have had to deal with the suicide of someone who was maybe less famous than Williams, but more loved by them.
Now let's look at more Apple product news! A much more cheerful subject! (most of the time
)
People who commit suicide are chickens who do not want to face life with it's ups and downs.Williams was a brilliant entertainer but a selfish man who cared nothing about his family and what they are going through now.His own self denial about life and his never ending wants about his movies made him do this .There are certain religions where suicide is a no no.
It's not possible to completely understand another person's reality. All that is possible is for us to project our own experiences and understanding onto their actions.
People, motivations and values are very complicated.
People who commit suicide are chickens who do not want to face life with it's ups and downs.Williams was a brilliant entertainer but a selfish man who cared nothing about his family and what they are going through now.His own self denial about life and his never ending wants about his movies made him do this .There are certain religions where suicide is a no no.
People who believe this do not understand what goes on in the mind of someone who commits suicide. Do you really think it's "the easy way out" for people like this to kill themselves? As you say, this is taboo in certain religions, which means that those people don't do it because they think that death is a better alternative than life. It's simply because life has nothing more for them.
Of course I'm not condoning suicide, in any way, shape, or form, but to call people who do it "chickens" is unfair and insensitive. To say that Williams cared nothing about his family is also unfair. I'm sure he cared very much for his family, but as I've already posted here, people who reach this point see nothing but themselves. They no longer have the ability to reasonably think through the consequences of their actions.
Incidentally, it was revealed by Williams' wife that Robin was going through the beginning stages of Parkinson's disease. That may have pushed him over the edge.