More specifically, what's the difference between the Sony TRV730 and the Canon ZR20, which I have menaged to finagle into my possession for the next week or so?
Digital8 just uses Hi8 tapes for those who have a zillion of the tapes recorded and want their new camcorder to still play their old tapes. They're backward compatible, but they're also capable of recording and playing back a digital signal. Most of those cameras do have a firewire i/o so yoru computer can treat them the same as a DV cam.
More specifically, what's the difference between the Sony TRV730 and the Canon ZR20, which I have menaged to finagle into my possession for the next week or so?
SdC</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just bought a Cannon ZR25 myself last friday
Biggest difference between Digital8 and DV is that Digital8 is DEAD - only people still building that format is Sony (or so I was told). Yes D8 does bridge between Hi8 formats and Digital, but DV is the newer standard. Seemed to me that I could do what I wanted with the newer standard.
Besides, the Canon ZR25 (not sure about the 20) had an Analog input - so I can play my old Hi8 tapes thru my old camcorder and go to either DV or down the firewire to the iMac I'm gonna buy.
Those were my reasons for going with the Canon. Note: I got it for $599 at Circuit City - tho I think they've raised the price back to $699 on the web. Send me a PM and I'll give you the name of a company that says they'll sell it for $599.
Biggest difference between Digital8 and DV is that Digital8 is DEAD - only people still building that format is Sony (or so I was told). </strong><hr></blockquote>
Not only that, but Sony is the only company that EVER built that format!
Other companies made 8mm and Hi8 camcorders, but only Sony made Digital8 ones.
Doesn't matter! 8mm is not dead nor will it be soon. Therefore you will have manymany tapes available (do not let a salesman tell you that you have to use the "dv8" tapes. all 8mm tapes work)
I have been using DV8 ever since they came out. I find them a far better consumer cameras in the sense that the tapes are more available if you are ever in a one horse town you can bet that they have 8mm tapes for sale in their saloon.
The quality is excellent. The versatilaty with with analog 8mm tapes is a bonus.
The Sony's allow pass through. (An analog VHS can go straight into a computer without recording it first...actually most cameras can do this)
Sony's 8mm dv's are cheaper than their DV models. This allows you to get a Sony for the price of a Toshiba.
One draw back is the size...but I find they are too small anyways I prefer Shoulder mounted cameras for stability.....but you would not want to take one of those on a holiday.
Don't let the "rumors" of DV8's death bother you... DV is DV...it is not like the difference between Beta and VHS.
Archiving could be a problem 10 years from now, but hey, who knows what will happen in that time. Also there is always DVD's you can burn to.
Your looking in the wrong places dudes. There is no difference as far as i can tell quality wise. Digital 8 is bigger, mini DV is smaller , duh. SO compare features. The one feature that makes the most difference to me is the zoom ratio. Sony's cameras, the Digital 8's in particular seem to have better zoom ratio's for the money. (Typicly 1-20 or better on a Sony as compared to 1-12 or 1-15 on anything else.) So that's what I use. IF you ever noticed how quickly your image pixelates once you cross into digital zoom, you'll understand how important this is. Retarded statements about what's dead and what's not don't mean a lot to a photographer or videographer, it should be about how it changes what you can shoot. Save the posturing for things where it doesn;t really matter, you know , fashion, music, stuff like that. Also if you don't have tiny little fingers and fantastic fine motor control, you might find the size of a 8mmDV more to your liking, I know I did.
I find both cameras too small to be used without the shakes, and I'm not about to turn on the image stabilizer! I'm goint build/buy a shoulder mount in the near future.
So far, in the past few hours of testing them, the Sony's got more bells and whistles, that's for sure.
Explain to me the 8mm tapes themselves. The tapes are the same media for analog and digital 8 cameras, right?
What is the next DV level up from miniDV/Digi8? Something with less compression and/or more resolution.
Digital 8 is still a "DV" format. The signal is the same, the FireWire (or Sony iLink) works with Macs. You can't use older, standard 8mm tapes. If you do, the camera records an analog signal. You MUST use Hi8 formatted tapes. This assures you will be shooting in Digital 8 mode.
What is the next DV level up from miniDV/Digi8? Something with less compression and/or more resolution.
SdC</strong><hr></blockquote>
The next tape format "up" is DVcam. The next step up in quality is to stick with miniDV format but buy a 3 CCD camera. This way you have a CCD for each color and you'll get a better pic.
3 ccd cameras are very expensive, but are also very good. I is just a matter of how much you want to spend and do you really need that quality for your needs.
already recorded 8mm analog tapes can be played in a DV8 camera, but tapes recorded in DV8 will not play in analog. Also you only get half the time. If you have a 120 min. tape then you will only get about 60 of DV format. (it has never really made sense to me since I thought the DV signal was smaller. )
I have used everything form a $5 - $25 tape. Never really noticed a difference other than cost. I am sure I could use the more expensivve tape over and over agina with less of a loss...but so far all tapes are working well. Canadian dollars here...so that translates to about $1.35- $4.17 american ... sometime go and look at a currency calculator any amercians may be shocked at how much buying power you have in Canada...
<strong>I find both cameras too small to be used without the shakes, and I'm not about to turn on the image stabilizer! I'm goint build/buy a shoulder mount in the near future.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
YIKES!!!
I'll bet you also have a "tube" stereo system because it is 'warmer' than all these new fangled transistors! Right?
Why bother buying the darn thing? Buy an old movie camera - the ones with real film in them! Those things didn't shake
I'd think pretty carefully about the size of the camera. I have a Sony TRV-900 which is a three CCD Mini DV camera. I love it and the picture is phenomenal, but there are a lot of times where I'd like to have a camera and don't feel like dragging it along.
I'll bet you also have a "tube" stereo system because it is 'warmer' than all these new fangled transistors! Right?
Why bother buying the darn thing? Buy an old movie camera - the ones with real film in them! Those things didn't shake
Ariel (with a teasing look on) </strong><hr></blockquote>
Because of the compressions and the resolution of miniDV, if you want to ever get a film look, you don't want to do things that show that you are not using film.
Jitters of a small camera is one (although correctable by tripod). Another is image stabilization is the other. IS works by digitally concentrating on the middle of an image, so in essence, it is a digital zoom, albeit a mild one.
If you want high quality DV, fight for every pixel, and every piece of color data.
SdC, who is proving that he can regurgitate what he read in a book somewhere
If you want hi quality video, you have to use a tripod, image stabilization isn't the same. Image stabilization can keep the image from moving around the frame, but it does not reduce the loss of image quality caused by the blurriness of shaky pictures. Motion blur is a measurable side effect of not using a tripod. There is no other way to get rid of it. You can reduce it, but it's still always there.
<strong>If you want hi quality video, you have to use a tripod, image stabilization isn't the same. Image stabilization can keep the image from moving around the frame, but it does not reduce the loss of image quality caused by the blurriness of shaky pictures. Motion blur is a measurable side effect of not using a tripod. There is no other way to get rid of it. You can reduce it, but it's still always there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Guys - we're talking about nit's here! If you want "hi quality video" then don't buy the low end of the market - spend $2500 or more on a camera and carry around a tripod with you where ever you go.
Otherwise, the stability of the image and the quality of the image produced by these cameras is a million percent better than the camera your parents used (if they even had one) and a bunch better than the Hi8 Camera I bought 10 years ago... and if you are so worried about this tiny bit of lost quality at this point then you are pickin nits. Get real.
If you want to make MOVIES - then spend the big bucks. If you are filming your kids play, then the quality of miniDV is perfect.
I have a tri CCD sony trv 900 which produce a very high quality image (much better than any television signal and better than MP2 DVD). There is an optical stabilisator (a solution better than a digital one which make a small degradation of the image) that's work fine.
My advise : take a mini DV camera; mini DV are smaller and universal. Digital 8 was an invention of Sony in oder to make cheaper DV camera. Now prizes of DV camera have get down, even the prizes of the tape are cheaper than 2 years ago (half the prize). Futhermore in the future there would be affordable DV player that will read the mini DV tape. I doubt there will be digital 8 player.
Last point DV tape are supposed more reliable than digital 8 (less rpm because there is more density).
If you want better quality (but for what purpose a tri CCD camera give already an oustanding image) you can get a dV cam corder that works with the same tape but with a faster speed (so a 60 minutes tapes will become 45). The DV cam corder can also work on the DV format.
Anyway all DV camera are fine, when i look back the old VHS film or even HI8 or SVHS film : what a progress. I think the video is mature now : your image is better than television. So don't worry and be happy , and make terrific films.
My dad bought a Hi8 camera time ago and have a ton of old videos I would love to edit and put on a DVD.
Problem 1, the camera got stolen a while ago, so we just are left with a stack of unviewable tapes. What to do?
Im not going to buy another Hi8 camera to transfer that video. I would rather get a miniDV for the future. But how can I transfer the old videos?
Rental of equipment is insanely expensive seeing that it will take me weeks of work of editing. I would also have to buy a firewire converter box... those things that have every imaginable port to get video from. That could also come in handy in the future, so not too bad an investment. What would you do?
Comments
<strong>What's the difference?
More specifically, what's the difference between the Sony TRV730 and the Canon ZR20, which I have menaged to finagle into my possession for the next week or so?
SdC</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just bought a Cannon ZR25 myself last friday
Biggest difference between Digital8 and DV is that Digital8 is DEAD - only people still building that format is Sony (or so I was told). Yes D8 does bridge between Hi8 formats and Digital, but DV is the newer standard. Seemed to me that I could do what I wanted with the newer standard.
Besides, the Canon ZR25 (not sure about the 20) had an Analog input - so I can play my old Hi8 tapes thru my old camcorder and go to either DV or down the firewire to the iMac I'm gonna buy.
Those were my reasons for going with the Canon. Note: I got it for $599 at Circuit City - tho I think they've raised the price back to $699 on the web. Send me a PM and I'll give you the name of a company that says they'll sell it for $599.
Ariel
<strong>
Biggest difference between Digital8 and DV is that Digital8 is DEAD - only people still building that format is Sony (or so I was told). </strong><hr></blockquote>
Not only that, but Sony is the only company that EVER built that format!
Other companies made 8mm and Hi8 camcorders, but only Sony made Digital8 ones.
Doesn't matter! 8mm is not dead nor will it be soon. Therefore you will have manymany tapes available (do not let a salesman tell you that you have to use the "dv8" tapes. all 8mm tapes work)
I have been using DV8 ever since they came out. I find them a far better consumer cameras in the sense that the tapes are more available if you are ever in a one horse town you can bet that they have 8mm tapes for sale in their saloon.
The quality is excellent. The versatilaty with with analog 8mm tapes is a bonus.
The Sony's allow pass through. (An analog VHS can go straight into a computer without recording it first...actually most cameras can do this)
Sony's 8mm dv's are cheaper than their DV models. This allows you to get a Sony for the price of a Toshiba.
One draw back is the size...but I find they are too small anyways I prefer Shoulder mounted cameras for stability.....but you would not want to take one of those on a holiday.
Don't let the "rumors" of DV8's death bother you... DV is DV...it is not like the difference between Beta and VHS.
Archiving could be a problem 10 years from now, but hey, who knows what will happen in that time. Also there is always DVD's you can burn to.
I am very happy with my Sony TRV120.
[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: Buggy ]</p>
[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: norfa ]</p>
So far, in the past few hours of testing them, the Sony's got more bells and whistles, that's for sure.
Explain to me the 8mm tapes themselves. The tapes are the same media for analog and digital 8 cameras, right?
What is the next DV level up from miniDV/Digi8? Something with less compression and/or more resolution.
SdC
Digital 8 is still a "DV" format. The signal is the same, the FireWire (or Sony iLink) works with Macs. You can't use older, standard 8mm tapes. If you do, the camera records an analog signal. You MUST use Hi8 formatted tapes. This assures you will be shooting in Digital 8 mode.
<strong>
What is the next DV level up from miniDV/Digi8? Something with less compression and/or more resolution.
SdC</strong><hr></blockquote>
The next tape format "up" is DVcam. The next step up in quality is to stick with miniDV format but buy a 3 CCD camera. This way you have a CCD for each color and you'll get a better pic.
How is it better?
Why do I ask so many questions?
Will this feeling that I don't know enough ever go away?
Thanks for the answers, folks!
SdC
already recorded 8mm analog tapes can be played in a DV8 camera, but tapes recorded in DV8 will not play in analog. Also you only get half the time. If you have a 120 min. tape then you will only get about 60 of DV format. (it has never really made sense to me since I thought the DV signal was smaller. )
I have used everything form a $5 - $25 tape. Never really noticed a difference other than cost. I am sure I could use the more expensivve tape over and over agina with less of a loss...but so far all tapes are working well. Canadian dollars here...so that translates to about $1.35- $4.17 american
<strong>I find both cameras too small to be used without the shakes, and I'm not about to turn on the image stabilizer! I'm goint build/buy a shoulder mount in the near future.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
YIKES!!!
I'll bet you also have a "tube" stereo system because it is 'warmer' than all these new fangled transistors! Right?
Why bother buying the darn thing? Buy an old movie camera - the ones with real film in them! Those things didn't shake
Ariel (with a teasing look on)
<strong>what is DVcam?
How is it better?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
DVCam is better quality and is actually one format used in broadcast video (along with Digital-S, DVCPro, Digital Betacam, etc.)
More information is here:
<a href="http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-tech.html"; target="_blank">http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-tech.html</a>;
<strong>
YIKES!!!
I'll bet you also have a "tube" stereo system because it is 'warmer' than all these new fangled transistors! Right?
Why bother buying the darn thing? Buy an old movie camera - the ones with real film in them! Those things didn't shake
Ariel (with a teasing look on)
Because of the compressions and the resolution of miniDV, if you want to ever get a film look, you don't want to do things that show that you are not using film.
Jitters of a small camera is one (although correctable by tripod). Another is image stabilization is the other. IS works by digitally concentrating on the middle of an image, so in essence, it is a digital zoom, albeit a mild one.
If you want high quality DV, fight for every pixel, and every piece of color data.
SdC, who is proving that he can regurgitate what he read in a book somewhere
<strong>If you want hi quality video, you have to use a tripod, image stabilization isn't the same. Image stabilization can keep the image from moving around the frame, but it does not reduce the loss of image quality caused by the blurriness of shaky pictures. Motion blur is a measurable side effect of not using a tripod. There is no other way to get rid of it. You can reduce it, but it's still always there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Guys - we're talking about nit's here! If you want "hi quality video" then don't buy the low end of the market - spend $2500 or more on a camera and carry around a tripod with you where ever you go.
Otherwise, the stability of the image and the quality of the image produced by these cameras is a million percent better than the camera your parents used (if they even had one) and a bunch better than the Hi8 Camera I bought 10 years ago... and if you are so worried about this tiny bit of lost quality at this point then you are pickin nits. Get real.
If you want to make MOVIES - then spend the big bucks. If you are filming your kids play, then the quality of miniDV is perfect.
That is just my opinion and i'm stickin with it!
Ariel
My advise : take a mini DV camera; mini DV are smaller and universal. Digital 8 was an invention of Sony in oder to make cheaper DV camera. Now prizes of DV camera have get down, even the prizes of the tape are cheaper than 2 years ago (half the prize). Futhermore in the future there would be affordable DV player that will read the mini DV tape. I doubt there will be digital 8 player.
Last point DV tape are supposed more reliable than digital 8 (less rpm because there is more density).
If you want better quality (but for what purpose a tri CCD camera give already an oustanding image) you can get a dV cam corder that works with the same tape but with a faster speed (so a 60 minutes tapes will become 45). The DV cam corder can also work on the DV format.
Anyway all DV camera are fine, when i look back the old VHS film or even HI8 or SVHS film : what a progress. I think the video is mature now : your image is better than television. So don't worry and be happy , and make terrific films.
Problem 1, the camera got stolen a while ago, so we just are left with a stack of unviewable tapes. What to do?
Im not going to buy another Hi8 camera to transfer that video. I would rather get a miniDV for the future. But how can I transfer the old videos?
Rental of equipment is insanely expensive seeing that it will take me weeks of work of editing. I would also have to buy a firewire converter box... those things that have every imaginable port to get video from. That could also come in handy in the future, so not too bad an investment. What would you do?