Apple reportedly inks deal with American Express for 'iPhone 6' payment system

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  • Reply 41 of 100
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by leavingthebigG View Post

     

    NFC. NFC. NFC. The NFC mantra for the upcoming iPhone is similar to last year's NFC mantra for the iPhone 5S.

     

    Apple showed that iBeacons was the direction it was going in and the NFC mantra faded away.

     

    With with over 500 million-plus iPhone/iPad/iPhone Mini (my guess) users who are tied to iTunes and who can install iOS 8 the day the new operating system is released, I question why Apple would choose to drop ALL of those customers in favor of NFC instead of iBeacons.

     

    People can point to NFC patents Apple has submitted and/or have been approved, but they can also point to similar iBeacons patents like these...

     

    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/07/fcc-documents-surface-revealing-apples-ibeacon-testing.html#more

    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/01/apple-patent-reveals-secure-iwallet-system-with-ibeacon.html

    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2013/11/apple-files-four-trademark-applications-for-ibeacon-supporting-future-iwallet-services.html

     

    And, here is something very interesting about iOS vs Android concerning iBeacons...

     

    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/04/when-it-comes-to-ibeacon-readiness-ios-7-idevices-score-87-vs-android-devices-at-a-paltry-25.html#more

     

    For some reason analysts are fixated on NFC just like there have been fixated on a full-fledged television and a smart watch! As has been stated above multiple times, Android has had NFC for years and the technology has gone nowhere fast. IF Apple were to adopt NFC, the technology would finally be legitimized due to Apple being able to do something Google has been unsuccessful at doing for three-four-five years now!

     

    Samsung, the so-called TRUE Android competitor to Apple, tried to make NFC successful with NFC tags. That effort, like other Samsung efforts, went nowhere fast. No matter how much Android fans might protest this failure, all they have to do is read their Web sites to see how many articles have been written THIS year about NFC tags vs iBeacons. If NFC was so good why has every Android Wear manufacturer chosen NOT to include an NFC chip in their smart watches? If Apple included an NFC chip in its rumored smart watch (or wearable -- analysts have recently begun hedging their bets on this), every Android Wear manufacturer would start including an NFC chip in their smart watches as fast as possible.

     

    With iBeacons technology being deployed all over the world for shopping, sports and more, the technology provides Apple a unique opportunity to implement an e-payments solution tied to iTunes that cannot be easily copied by Google and its Android partners. What makes this even more interesting is many Android smartphone users have iPads and because of this they may get to use Apple's e-payments solution.

     

    No matter my thoughts on this subject, Apple may answer many questions on Tuesday, September 9, 2014.


     

    So, I'm not questioning your view, per se, but I'm trying to understand how iBeacons could in any way be a substitute for a payment system?  It seems that they are highly divergent, yet very complimentary, technologies.  If anything, the advent of iBeacons would seem to me to be an excellent pointer towards a payment system.  What could be better from a revenue perspective: iBeacons delivering relevant, targeted pricing and advertising information to the consumer, with instant ability to purchase... all with revenue gains for Apple.

     

    I'm not saying such a thing will happen, and to be honest it makes me feel a little dirty just bringing it up.  But when you bring forth a device like an iWatch (should it come into existence) and then you add NFC and iBeacons into the picture... you get a very instantly accessible payment and advertising system that I think retailers and payment networks would be very eager to be a part of.

     

    Again, I am not suggesting this will happen... but it looks a bit like a 'no brainer' to me.  And as a matter of fact, I think such a system is mostly inevitable.

  • Reply 42 of 100
    bobschlobbobschlob Posts: 1,074member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

     

    All Apple has to do is siphon off the credit card companies business and eventually offer their own Apple-branded credit card on the iPhone. Cut out the middlemen and you'll instantly have the worlds biggest credit company. American Express has a market cap of less than $94 billion.


     

    Ha! That's exactly what I thought Apple would do with the "cellular companies" back when the iPhone first came out and all that cellular spectrum went to auction.

     

    I'm still waiting for "Appletel" or "iCellular" someday. 

  • Reply 43 of 100
    formosaformosa Posts: 261member

    I don't know the credibility of this website, but it reports that the Big Three are supposedly on board with Apple for mobile payments:

     

    http://www.dailytech.com/Reports+Apple+Has+Signed+on+American+Express+Visa+MasterCard+for+Mobile+Payments/article36480.htm

     

    The pieces are falling into place...

  • Reply 44 of 100
    macbook promacbook pro Posts: 1,605member
    NFC. NFC. NFC. The NFC mantra for the upcoming iPhone is similar to last year's NFC mantra for the iPhone 5S.

    Apple showed that iBeacons was the direction it was going in and the NFC mantra faded away.

    With with over 500 million-plus iPhone/iPad/iPhone Mini (my guess) users who are tied to iTunes and who can install iOS 8 the day the new operating system is released, I question why Apple would choose to drop ALL of those customers in favor of NFC instead of iBeacons.

    People can point to NFC patents Apple has submitted and/or have been approved, but they can also point to similar iBeacons patents like these...

    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/07/fcc-documents-surface-revealing-apples-ibeacon-testing.html#more
    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/01/apple-patent-reveals-secure-iwallet-system-with-ibeacon.html</span>

    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2013/11/apple-files-four-trademark-applications-for-ibeacon-supporting-future-iwallet-services.html

    And, here is something very interesting about iOS vs Android concerning iBeacons...

    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2014/04/when-it-comes-to-ibeacon-readiness-ios-7-idevices-score-87-vs-android-devices-at-a-paltry-25.html#more

    For some reason analysts are fixated on NFC just like there have been fixated on a full-fledged television and a smart watch! As has been stated above multiple times, Android has had NFC for years and the technology has gone nowhere fast. IF Apple were to adopt NFC, the technology would finally be legitimized due to Apple being able to do something Google has been unsuccessful at doing for three-four-five years now!

    Samsung, the so-called TRUE Android competitor to Apple, tried to make NFC successful with NFC tags. That effort, like other Samsung efforts, went nowhere fast. No matter how much Android fans might protest this failure, all they have to do is read their Web sites to see how many articles have been written THIS year about NFC tags vs iBeacons. If NFC was so good why has every Android Wear manufacturer chosen NOT to include an NFC chip in their smart watches? If Apple included an NFC chip in its rumored smart watch (or wearable -- analysts have recently begun hedging their bets on this), every Android Wear manufacturer would start including an NFC chip in their smart watches as fast as possible.

    With iBeacons technology being deployed all over the world for shopping, sports and more, the technology provides Apple a unique opportunity to implement an e-payments solution tied to iTunes that cannot be easily copied by Google and its Android partners. What makes this even more interesting is many Android smartphone users have iPads and because of this they may get to use Apple's e-payments solution.

    No matter my thoughts on this subject, Apple may answer many questions on Tuesday, September 9, 2014.


    I am not convinced that Apple is including NFC on iPhone 6 despite the evidence. Most of the iPhone 6 hardware leaks are from a single, essentially unknown source.
  • Reply 45 of 100
    So how does Apple make money on this? are the payments just a killer app to sell more iPhones? I have a hard time believing that the CC companies would give Apple a slice of the pie, unless Apple can convince them that the payments are so much more secure that their cost s will decrease.
  • Reply 46 of 100
    mnbob1mnbob1 Posts: 263member
    NFC. NFC. NFC. The NFC mantra for the upcoming iPhone is similar to last year's NFC mantra for the iPhone 5S.

    Apple showed that iBeacons was the direction it was going in and the NFC mantra faded away.

    With with over 500 million-plus iPhone/iPad/iPhone Mini (my guess) users who are tied to iTunes and who can install iOS 8 the day the new operating system is released, I question why Apple would choose to drop ALL of those customers in favor of NFC instead of iBeacons.

    People can point to NFC patents Apple has submitted and/or have been approved, but they can also point to similar iBeacons patents like these...

    For some reason analysts are fixated on NFC just like there have been fixated on a full-fledged television and a smart watch! As has been stated above multiple times, Android has had NFC for years and the technology has gone nowhere fast. IF Apple were to adopt NFC, the technology would finally be legitimized due to Apple being able to do something Google has been unsuccessful at doing for three-four-five years now!

    Samsung, the so-called TRUE Android competitor to Apple, tried to make NFC successful with NFC tags. That effort, like other Samsung efforts, went nowhere fast. No matter how much Android fans might protest this failure, all they have to do is read their Web sites to see how many articles have been written THIS year about NFC tags vs iBeacons. If NFC was so good why has every Android Wear manufacturer chosen NOT to include an NFC chip in their smart watches? If Apple included an NFC chip in its rumored smart watch (or wearable -- analysts have recently begun hedging their bets on this), every Android Wear manufacturer would start including an NFC chip in their smart watches as fast as possible.

    With iBeacons technology being deployed all over the world for shopping, sports and more, the technology provides Apple a unique opportunity to implement an e-payments solution tied to iTunes that cannot be easily copied by Google and its Android partners. What makes this even more interesting is many Android smartphone users have iPads and because of this they may get to use Apple's e-payments solution.

    I agree. NFC is over hyped, not secure enough, and just a gimmick so far to say you have it. Bumping phones to share pictures is a lot different than making secure payments.

    I really doubt that the credit card companies are on-board based only on the iPhone 6 base. IMO iBeacon will be used. However the use of a secure enclave will be important. The iPhone 5s has such an area for fingerprint security. Whether it has the capacity for that additional function I don't know but the user base is large as will be the iPhone 6. The analysts can stop drooling about NFC on 9/9 and try and figure out how Google and their puppet Samsung screwed up on this one.
  • Reply 47 of 100
    I think the real news is that American Express is headquartered in Buffalo. I'm not sure that's been true since 1850.
  • Reply 48 of 100
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,300member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Carson O'Genic View Post



    So how does Apple make money on this? are the payments just a killer app to sell more iPhones? I have a hard time believing that the CC companies would give Apple a slice of the pie, unless Apple can convince them that the payments are so much more secure that their cost s will decrease.

     

    If Apple is facilitating the "float" then they would be taking on the risk of acting as middleman, but they'd also be disintermediating the banks and eventually the credit card companies themselves, after consumers realize they don't need a credit card at all.

  • Reply 49 of 100
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by formosa View Post

     

     

    Thanks, that's interesting info to me. Sounds like the physical card may be completely unnecessary by the method you describe.


    The card never was necessary. just proof of 'trust' by the issuing bank. 

    It used to be 'knowledge' of your bank account number and your signature was enough (check).

    Diners club was a cardboard card originally.  No raised numbers.... that was a request of the retailers to avoid transcription errors.

     

    you can still transact with just the number and the exp date, and CVV, and the exact name.    That's the problem.  None of that is secret.

     

    Using signed (and trusted)  encryption keys, The credit card number never has to be part of the transaction, EXCEPT for the assignment of the initial credential.   Eventually, you'll not even need that. 

     

    after that, you establish who you are to your bank, the bank tells the retailer... 'the person in front of you has our full faith and credit'  The transactions happens, the money gets to the retailer.   In theory, only your bank and Apple have to know it's you.   The retailer, needs only to know they will get paid.

  • Reply 51 of 100
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

     

     

    If Apple is facilitating the "float" then they would be taking on the risk of acting as middleman, but they'd also be disintermediating the banks and eventually the credit card companies themselves, after consumers realize they don't need a credit card at all.


    Apple isn't doing that. (yet*)

     

    Apple will merely charge the credit card issuers passed on to the retailers who really pay for everything, that the phone in front of them is owned by the person who is holding it, and that the card information in that phone (more like the token sent by MC/Visa/AMEX) has not been tampered with.

     

    That reduces card fraud immensely.

    If your fraud loss as a Merchant is 1% and you're a million dollar a year store ($5,000 a day and $50 in CC fraud a day, of which your liable for all of it... read the fine print), that's $10,000.   If an iPhone transaction fraud risk is .01% ($100 a year ), would you pay .25% ($2500) to and net $7400 if all your buyers used that form of payment?

     

    Say Apple gets that .2% of that transaction... Times eleventyBillion transactions on average of $50 (simple numbers)  $550B*.2% = 1.25Billion.

    All that for the price of setting up an AppleID.

     

    *(The Long game is Apple using your AppleID's CC on file as your 'bank', and eventually supplanting any intermediate Credit Card Processor, and dealing directly with the band card networks.

     

    Then Apple Issues it's own Credit Card, that is not network affiliated, but works wherever your iPhone can purchase stuff.   With all the money overseas, it can meet the banking laws in most countries, and/or buy a bank in each... 

     

    Apple is getting all the processing fees, has lower fraud, and is getting interest on the float.... House money)

     

     

     

    Money for nothing and your Chicks for Free.

  • Reply 52 of 100
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,576member
    apple ][ wrote: »
    True, good point!

    To be honest, I don't see how anybody who has more than $10 in their bank account would ever risk using any kind of Android phone.

    I honestly don't understand why you always stoop this low with comments like this. Do you always denigrate people who don't make the same choices in life or buy the same types of products as you?

    I honestly don't give a flying **** what the person next to me or down the street uses when it comes to their smartphones. That's their choice and I'm glad that there is choice in the marketplace. I don't want to live in a world where we all are slaves to the same exact products.
  • Reply 53 of 100
    mpantonempantone Posts: 1,420member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mnbob1 View Post



    I agree. NFC is over hyped, not secure enough, and just a gimmick so far to say you have it. Bumping phones to share pictures is a lot different than making secure payments.

    Not over-hyped in Japan. They've had contactless payments on their cellphones since 2005. That's right, almost *TEN* years ago. The USA is way behind on this tech.

     

    People who don't understand this don't really know anything about consumer payment tech.

     

    We get a lot of clueless comments in US-based tech forums. Appalling.

  • Reply 54 of 100
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,684member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post





    I honestly don't understand why you always stoop this low with comments like this. Do you always denigrate people who don't make the same choices in life or buy the same types of products as you?



    I honestly don't give a flying **** what the person next to me or down the street uses when it comes to their smartphones. That's their choice and I'm glad that there is choice in the marketplace. I don't want to live in a world where we all are slaves to the same exact products.

     

    I believe in freedom of choice and freedom of speech. People are free to buy as many Android phones as they wish. I'm not stopping anybody from buying any Android phones. As a matter of fact, whenever I run into somebody that I don't particularly like, my first recommendation to them would be to buy an Android phone.

     

    I also believe that Android is an inferior and crappy operating system, and there's nothing wrong with stating my views. I will continue to state these views for as long as I am able to.

     

    As for stooping that low, it is Samsung and others who stoop that low with their stupid commercials. If Fandroids can't take the heat, then get out of the oven.

  • Reply 55 of 100
    mpantonempantone Posts: 1,420member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BobSchlob View Post

     

     

    Ha! That's exactly what I thought Apple would do with the "cellular companies" back when the iPhone first came out and all that cellular spectrum went to auction.

     

    I'm still waiting for "Appletel" or "iCellular" someday. 


    Not going to happen. 

     

    Apple does not invest in heavily regionally limited businesses. Mobile telephony operations are market-specific. If Apple buys T-Mobile USA, that doesn't help iPhone customers outside of the USA (there is more international revenue than domestic).

     

    Apple's tech investments are in companies which typically have a broad-reaching impact on Apple's business, not something marginal. Companies like P.A. Semi, Intrinsity, etc., those are all companies that affect a wide range of products, not some pure play B.S.

  • Reply 56 of 100
    mpantone wrote: »
    mnbob1 wrote: »
    <span style="line-height:1.4em;">I agree. NFC is over hyped, not secure enough, and just a gimmick so far to say you have it. Bumping phones to share pictures is a lot different than making secure payments.</span>
    Not over-hyped in Japan. They've had contactless payments on their cellphones since 2005. That's right, almost *TEN* years ago. The USA is way behind on this tech.

    People who don't understand this don't really know anything about consumer payment tech.

    We get a lot of clueless comments in US-based tech forums. Appalling.

    Whenever it's pointed out that NFC is a technology whose day has come and gone (without coming really), somebody always jumps in with "Yeah, but, yeah, but...JAPAN!" (Apalling.) Japan is famous for jumping on technological bandwagons before they're ready for prime time just to look like leaders instead of the followers they've always been. They jumped on analog HDTV, remember—which took such horrendous amounts of bandwidth that they had to launch a dedicated satellite that could only carry four channels. I don't think following Japan off a cliff is the best strategy.
  • Reply 57 of 100
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,576member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     

     

    I believe in freedom of choice and freedom of speech. People are free to buy as many Android phones as they wish. I'm not stopping anybody from buying any Android phones. As a matter of fact, whenever I run into somebody that I don't particularly like, my first recommendation to them would be to buy an Android phone.

     

    I also believe that Android is an inferior and crappy operating system, and there's nothing wrong with stating my views. I will continue to state these views for as long as I am able to.

     

    As for stooping that low, it is Samsung and others who stoop that low with their stupid commercials. If Fandroids can't take the heat, then get out of the oven.




    I just wonder, if you get this offended and pissed off about what people choose for their smartphones (actually telling people you don't like the buy Android phones?), how must you feel about other things that people purchase? Their cars, their clothes, their house, their choice of where to live, if a family's children go to private or public school, if they eat foods with HFCS or hydrogenated oils...???

     

    <img class=" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />

     

    I get that you hate Android... I completely get it. But you just seem to take it to the extreme -- where does the line get drawn? 

  • Reply 58 of 100
    mazda 3s wrote: »
    "Apple wrote:
    [" url="/t/182033/apple-reportedly-inks-deal-with-american-express-for-iphone-6-payment-system/40#post_2587099"]
     

    I believe in freedom of choice and freedom of speech. People are free to buy as many Android phones as they wish. I'm not stopping anybody from buying any Android phones. As a matter of fact, whenever I run into somebody that I don't particularly like, my first recommendation to them would be to buy an Android phone.

    I also believe that Android is an inferior and crappy operating system, and there's nothing wrong with stating my views. I will continue to state these views for as long as I am able to.

    As for stooping that low, it is Samsung and others who stoop that low with their stupid commercials. If Fandroids can't take the heat, then get out of the oven.


    I just wonder, if you get this offended and pissed off about what people choose for their smartphones (actually telling people you don't like the buy Android phones?), how must you feel about other things that people purchase? Their cars, their clothes, their house, their choice of where to live, if a family's children go to private or public school, if they eat foods with HFCS or hydrogenated oils...???

    :lol:

    I get that you hate Android... I completely get it. But you just seem to take it to the extreme -- where does the line get drawn? 

    Disclaimer: I hate Android as much as he does.

    His declared position is that Apple products should be priced out of the range where those who don't deserve to have them can afford them. He's probably working from that list conservatives have been shopping around for years: "It's scandalous that in America poor people have..." and then there's a whole laundry list of items like "color TVs" (Where would you buy a black-and-white TV exactly?), and refrigerators, which shows you how old this list is. Anyway, in recent years they've added cell phones to the items that poor people don't deserve. Remember the "Obamaphone" hysteria about services like Assurance Wireless, even though assistance was extended to wireless phones during the Bush (or was it Clinton?) administration.

    Android as a cheaper (up front) alternative, blurs the line between the haves and the have-nots that he wants to keep crystal clear, both here and between this country and the "Third World Hellholes" (In his charming phrase) where it's the dominant system.
  • Reply 59 of 100
    mpantonempantone Posts: 1,420member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post





    Whenever it's pointed out that NFC is a technology whose day has come and gone (without coming really), somebody always jumps in with "Yeah, but, yeah, but...JAPAN!" (Apalling.) Japan is famous for jumping on technological bandwagons before they're ready for prime time just to look like leaders instead of the followers they've always been. They jumped on analog HDTV, remember—which took such horrendous amounts of bandwidth that they had to launch a dedicated satellite that could only carry four channels. I don't think following Japan off a cliff is the best strategy.

    Following Japan's nine-year old NFC lead is hardly following them off a cliff.

     

    Note that no one has claimed that "Osaifu keitai" was a half-baked technology. It was based off of putting a Mobile SUICA card on a cellphone. It was already useful from Day 1.

     

    But thanks for your B.S. fear mongering. It's so novel in 2014.

     

    Also, you should rethink your spell checking software. Whatever you are using is appalling.

  • Reply 60 of 100
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Whenever it's pointed out that NFC is a technology whose day has come and gone (without coming really)...

    Excluding any markets that have currently implemented NFC is some way, why do you think NFC's day has both come and gone.

    I feel that NFC's day hasn't yet happened since it's never been implemented well within HW, an OS with APIs and frameworks, and been supported by a robust ecosystem with leading industry partners. What is being rumoured now is what I've been saying need to be in place before Apple can get on board.
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