I JUST thought of this...and haven't read anything about this potential issue anywhere. Won't your iPhone need an Internet connection at the time of the transaction in order to use Apple Pay??? That could be an issue for some business locations right...
And why would that be? The choice of credit card information will be encoded along with what they are calling dynamic device ID (or something like that). Using NFC, this information is transferred from the phone onto the POS device. It is the retailer who than takes the information and pushes out. Your phone is not doing the transaction.
And why would that be? The choice of credit card information will be encoded along with what they are calling dynamic device ID (or something like that). Using NFC, this information is transferred from the phone onto the POS device. It is the retailer who than takes the information and pushes out. Your phone is not doing the transaction.
To generate the unique ID for each transaction. Is it done on demand in real time, or are these unique ID's stored up on your iPhone? Yes, I know about the secured storage on the chip with your CC info, but that is a separate issue.
The reason that Walmart and Best Buy have not joined is that they want to be in position to tell the customer which card to use- the one with a lower discount rate. With apple pay, the retailers have to accept whatever the iPhone user has designated on their iPhone.
I'm pretty sure the merchant can still choose not to accept one or more of the multi-national financial service cards.
In addition, <em>The Times</em> says credit card networks will not assume any additional cost in partnering with Apple, though analysts speculate Apple Pay may drive down interest rates. A large portion of credit card network fees go toward preventing fraud, but those expenses may drop once Apple Pay and Touch ID roll out, the report says.
fraud may be reduced and fraud prevention costs may be reduced but i'm highly skeptical that any of the resulting savings would ever be passed back to the consumer.
I'm pretty sure the merchant can still choose not to accept one or more of the multi-national financial service cards.
Yep, the merchant is NOT taking Apple Pay....they are taking MC, Visa or American Express. Apple Pay is just a different way to present your credit card is all. You can present the actual card or with Apple Pay a representation or alias of your actual card. Another way is to type in your card number.
Walmart should like Apple Pay as it cuts down on CC fraud - as long as Walmart is not being charged a higher transaction fee they should be agnostic (unless they don't have contactless terminals in place already). Again, Apple Pay is simply a different way to present your CC.
And why would that be? The choice of credit card information will be encoded along with what they are calling dynamic device ID (or something like that). Using NFC, this information is transferred from the phone onto the POS device. It is the retailer who than takes the information and pushes out. Your phone is not doing the transaction.
right. as i understand it ?Pay at its simplest is just another, ostensibly easier and more secure, way of presenting your payment info to the merchant.
To generate the unique ID for each transaction. Is it done on demand in real time, or are these unique ID's stored up on your iPhone? Yes, I know about the secured storage on the chip with your CC info, but that is a separate issue.
Here is an excerpt from Apple's site -
"Every time you hand over your credit or debit card to pay, your card number and identity are visible. With Apple Pay, instead of using your actual credit and debit card numbers when you add your card, a unique Device Account Number is assigned, encrypted and securely stored in the Secure Element, a dedicated chip in iPhone. These numbers are never stored on Apple servers. And when you make a purchase, the Device Account Number alongside a transaction-specific dynamic security code is used to process your payment. So your actual credit or debit card numbers are never shared with merchants or transmitted with payment."
So, the DAN is created when you add the credit card to the device and stored securely and not recreated every time. When the payment is made at the register, the DAN is used and not your credit card information, as it would be done when swiping the card. So only the DAN is transmitted between your phone and the NFC terminal. Your iPhone is not the one who is submitting the payment transaction to the Bank/Credit card company. This is what my understanding is.
I'm not surprised. Best Buy has a long history of mistreating Apple. They allow Companies like Microsoft to bribe their employees to divert customers to non-Apple products.
i wonder if sometime [quite] a ways down the road i'll be able to designate that a particular card or cards should only be able to be used if they are presented via ?Pay?
"Every time you hand over your credit or debit card to pay, your card number and identity are visible. With Apple Pay, instead of using your actual credit and debit card numbers when you add your card, a unique Device Account Number is assigned, encrypted and securely stored in the Secure Element, a dedicated chip in iPhone. These numbers are never stored on Apple servers. And when you make a purchase, the Device Account Number alongside a transaction-specific dynamic security code is used to process your payment. So your actual credit or debit card numbers are never shared with merchants or transmitted with payment."
So, the DAN is created when you add the credit card to the device and stored securely and not recreated every time. When the payment is made at the register, the DAN is used and not your credit card information, as it would be done when swiping the card. So only the DAN is transmitted between your phone and the NFC terminal. Your iPhone is not the one who is submitting the payment transaction to the Bank/Credit card company. This is what my understanding is.
Yes but my question "alongside a transaction-specific dynamic security code is used to process your payment" --- to generate this DYNAMIC security code, does your iPhone need an Internet connection? Seems pretty clear it will. Hence my post #18 above.
The reason that Walmart and Best Buy have not joined is that they want to be in position to tell the customer which card to use- the one with a lower discount rate. With apple pay, the retailers have to accept whatever the iPhone user has designated on their iPhone.
That's not true. If a retailer doesn't take Amex, then it doesn't matter if they swipe the card or use Apple Pay, it won't work. Places that don't take Amex generally don't even have the ability to process Amex cards because they never signed up to do so.
Why Wal-Mart and Best Buy aren't going to adopt it is anyone's guess. I don't believe Wal-Mart's registers have NFC, so it would be a large undertaking for them to add it and Wal-Mart is a very frugal company. I hear Best Buy has the hardware but it is turned off, but I wouldn't know.
i wonder if sometime [quite] a ways down the road i'll be able to designate that a particular card or cards should only be able to be used if they are presented via ?Pay?
At that point you can then ditch the physical card altogether.
What I'd like to see is the ability for the merchant's NFC system to state what kind of merchant it is and/or designate via my iPhone/?Watch which payment should be used based on various criteria. I have several card that I use in different places due to different rewards.
Best Buy will be the first to fold.. they are having issues with their big box traffic with competition... They will not want to risk loosing possible sales by not accepting a suddenly large form of payment like Apple Pay.
Walmart has more clout though.. along with their Sams Club arm.. Sam's Club has traditionally bucked the normal payment scheme's.. They still don't accept VISA.. and only just recently started taking MC.
They are big Discover card fans.. and you'll note the one card not on Apple Pay... DISCOVER..
Discovered card is joining Apple Pay.
It would then be ironic that Sams Club won't accept Discover Card through Apple Pay.
I'm not sure exactly why, but I have the suspicion this may become a case of Apple playing the embrace, extend and extinguish game. I see the iTuness card in passbook and I see the tip of the iceberg as they become the source of debit iTunes cards used for kinds of merchandise, and then they go after the American Express type of system of pay your bills by the end of the Month. Maybe, not but I 'd be worried if I was in the CC business.
I JUST thought of this...and haven't read anything about this potential issue anywhere. Won't your iPhone need an Internet connection at the time of the transaction in order to use Apple Pay??? That could be an issue for some business locations right...
Yes. You need at least a 3G Cellular network that is active wherever the iPhone is. Luckily, 3G is nearly everywhere.
Attention Walmart and Best Buy: First off, I will never shop at Walmart (Target ROCKS! and treats their employees with respect!)... As for Best Buy, you're just a show room. I'll go elsewhere online such as Amazon....
Comments
I JUST thought of this...and haven't read anything about this potential issue anywhere. Won't your iPhone need an Internet connection at the time of the transaction in order to use Apple Pay??? That could be an issue for some business locations right...
And why would that be? The choice of credit card information will be encoded along with what they are calling dynamic device ID (or something like that). Using NFC, this information is transferred from the phone onto the POS device. It is the retailer who than takes the information and pushes out. Your phone is not doing the transaction.
And why would that be? The choice of credit card information will be encoded along with what they are calling dynamic device ID (or something like that). Using NFC, this information is transferred from the phone onto the POS device. It is the retailer who than takes the information and pushes out. Your phone is not doing the transaction.
To generate the unique ID for each transaction. Is it done on demand in real time, or are these unique ID's stored up on your iPhone? Yes, I know about the secured storage on the chip with your CC info, but that is a separate issue.
I'm pretty sure the merchant can still choose not to accept one or more of the multi-national financial service cards.
fraud may be reduced and fraud prevention costs may be reduced but i'm highly skeptical that any of the resulting savings would ever be passed back to the consumer.
I'm pretty sure the merchant can still choose not to accept one or more of the multi-national financial service cards.
Yep, the merchant is NOT taking Apple Pay....they are taking MC, Visa or American Express. Apple Pay is just a different way to present your credit card is all. You can present the actual card or with Apple Pay a representation or alias of your actual card. Another way is to type in your card number.
Walmart should like Apple Pay as it cuts down on CC fraud - as long as Walmart is not being charged a higher transaction fee they should be agnostic (unless they don't have contactless terminals in place already). Again, Apple Pay is simply a different way to present your CC.
right. as i understand it ?Pay at its simplest is just another, ostensibly easier and more secure, way of presenting your payment info to the merchant.
To generate the unique ID for each transaction. Is it done on demand in real time, or are these unique ID's stored up on your iPhone? Yes, I know about the secured storage on the chip with your CC info, but that is a separate issue.
Here is an excerpt from Apple's site -
"Every time you hand over your credit or debit card to pay, your card number and identity are visible. With Apple Pay, instead of using your actual credit and debit card numbers when you add your card, a unique Device Account Number is assigned, encrypted and securely stored in the Secure Element, a dedicated chip in iPhone. These numbers are never stored on Apple servers. And when you make a purchase, the Device Account Number alongside a transaction-specific dynamic security code is used to process your payment. So your actual credit or debit card numbers are never shared with merchants or transmitted with payment."
So, the DAN is created when you add the credit card to the device and stored securely and not recreated every time. When the payment is made at the register, the DAN is used and not your credit card information, as it would be done when swiping the card. So only the DAN is transmitted between your phone and the NFC terminal. Your iPhone is not the one who is submitting the payment transaction to the Bank/Credit card company. This is what my understanding is.
I'm not surprised. Best Buy has a long history of mistreating Apple. They allow Companies like Microsoft to bribe their employees to divert customers to non-Apple products.
Here is an excerpt from Apple's site -
"Every time you hand over your credit or debit card to pay, your card number and identity are visible. With Apple Pay, instead of using your actual credit and debit card numbers when you add your card, a unique Device Account Number is assigned, encrypted and securely stored in the Secure Element, a dedicated chip in iPhone. These numbers are never stored on Apple servers. And when you make a purchase, the Device Account Number alongside a transaction-specific dynamic security code is used to process your payment. So your actual credit or debit card numbers are never shared with merchants or transmitted with payment."
So, the DAN is created when you add the credit card to the device and stored securely and not recreated every time. When the payment is made at the register, the DAN is used and not your credit card information, as it would be done when swiping the card. So only the DAN is transmitted between your phone and the NFC terminal. Your iPhone is not the one who is submitting the payment transaction to the Bank/Credit card company. This is what my understanding is.
Yes but my question "alongside a transaction-specific dynamic security code is used to process your payment" --- to generate this DYNAMIC security code, does your iPhone need an Internet connection? Seems pretty clear it will. Hence my post #18 above.
The reason that Walmart and Best Buy have not joined is that they want to be in position to tell the customer which card to use- the one with a lower discount rate. With apple pay, the retailers have to accept whatever the iPhone user has designated on their iPhone.
That's not true. If a retailer doesn't take Amex, then it doesn't matter if they swipe the card or use Apple Pay, it won't work. Places that don't take Amex generally don't even have the ability to process Amex cards because they never signed up to do so.
Why Wal-Mart and Best Buy aren't going to adopt it is anyone's guess. I don't believe Wal-Mart's registers have NFC, so it would be a large undertaking for them to add it and Wal-Mart is a very frugal company. I hear Best Buy has the hardware but it is turned off, but I wouldn't know.
At that point you can then ditch the physical card altogether.
What I'd like to see is the ability for the merchant's NFC system to state what kind of merchant it is and/or designate via my iPhone/?Watch which payment should be used based on various criteria. I have several card that I use in different places due to different rewards.
Resistance is futile!
Best Buy will be the first to fold.. they are having issues with their big box traffic with competition... They will not want to risk loosing possible sales by not accepting a suddenly large form of payment like Apple Pay.
Walmart has more clout though.. along with their Sams Club arm.. Sam's Club has traditionally bucked the normal payment scheme's.. They still don't accept VISA.. and only just recently started taking MC.
They are big Discover card fans.. and you'll note the one card not on Apple Pay... DISCOVER..
Discovered card is joining Apple Pay.
It would then be ironic that Sams Club won't accept Discover Card through Apple Pay.
I JUST thought of this...and haven't read anything about this potential issue anywhere. Won't your iPhone need an Internet connection at the time of the transaction in order to use Apple Pay??? That could be an issue for some business locations right...
Yes. You need at least a 3G Cellular network that is active wherever the iPhone is. Luckily, 3G is nearly everywhere.
That could happen if they simply don't accept NFC… but (I believe) they will because it'll save them money.
Are you sure? That makes it much less convenient in terms of usability and speed if that is the case.