Tallest Skil, when I am travelling in an aeroplane, my phone is being charged via the seat-back USB port while my headphones are plugged in to the headphones socket. I am relatively stationary in that situation and I still cannot use my computer to listen to music.
I agree, I am at a loss to understand how I will charge my phone while listening to music using these headphones.
The first-ever Lightning-connected headphones for iOS devices are coming from Philips, offering 24-bit digital to analog conversion thanks to the use of Apple's proprietary connector.
Might be an advantage, might not. Depends on if the DAC in the headphones is any better than the one in the iPhone. There are certainly reasons they COULD be -- more space for better analog circuit designs, extra battery allowing for better power supplies -- but it's not a given that an outboard will automatically be better than what's in the iPhone.
The converter in the iPhone already handles 24-bit files so that part is a red herring.
Note to those saying the iPhone doesn't support 24 bit: You're mixing up word length with sample rate. iDevices do not support sample rates higher than 48 kHz (i.e. 96k and 192k) but they do support 24 bit at 44.1 and 48k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
The new Philips Fidelio M2L headphones can connect to an iPhone, iPad or iPod via Apple's Lightning connector, allowing not only 24-bit DAC, but also amplification within the headphones.
That's a potential benefit. The amplifier in iDevices is woefully underpowered. Again, there's no guarantee that an outboard amp will be any good, but a decent amplifier fed digitally will beat the hell out of re-amplifying a crappy amp the way inline amps that connect to the headphone jack do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Digital output from Apple's Lightning connector will allow the Fidelio M2L headphones to eliminate crosstalk and interference.
Pure FUD. The EMF in an audio cable does induce crosstalk and interference, but at microscopic levels. It only becomes an issue when that signal is amplified, bringing the "foreign" audio up to an audible level. That means it's a consideration with interconnect cables between devices before the amplifier, but barely measurable, let alone audible, in a speaker or headphone cable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Apple even allows accessory makers to build applications for iOS that can communicate with the headphones and control how they operate.
Use of the Lightning port also allows headphones to receive power from an "iDevice." This would allow headphone makers to reduce bulk by removing necessary battery packs that some require to operate.
So, does the subject of this article have its own battery or is it powered by the phone? The article doesn't say. If the latter, how is it recharged?
Powering the cans with the phone would certainly be more convenient, but then you drain the phone battery faster and sacrifice the potential for using a better power supply in the outboard DAC and amp. Chances are headphones with their own batteries will be better (or at least they have the potential to be), but they'll be bigger and heavier and add one more device to the list of things needing to be charged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Originally Posted by tkrunner1738
...it’s going to drain your phone because it’s using this battery versus a battery on your headphones...
Like all wired headphones, yes.
Not exactly. Powering a pair of Lightning headphones with the iPhone means powering another DAC and another amplifier, so it would drain the iPhone battery more quickly than traditional passive headphones.
The converter in the iPhone already handles 24-bit files so that part is a red herring.
Note to those saying the iPhone doesn't support 24 bit: You're mixing up word length with sample rate. iDevices do not support sample rates higher than 48 kHz (i.e. 96k and 192k) but they do support 24 bit at 44.1 and 48k.
Thanks for the confirmation, that is indeed what I got from searching. So, I guess, careful here, next time I simply won't search and pop an audio related question to you...
The iDevice simply passes the digital data to the headphones through the Lightning port. It's the job of the headphone's digital to analog converter to decode the data and generate sound.
That's a good point
The biggest limitation is there aren't that many songs available in 24-bit audio, such as those from HDTracks.com, and they are quite a bit more expensive than buying CDs (16-bit, like iTunes Store downloads, but higher bit rates with lossless encoding).
I have bought a few albums on that site. And there's http://www.linnrecords.com Also bought 180 grams vinyl at another site.
When looking for alternatives to hdtracks, I DuckDuckGo-ed to this:
www.prostudiomasters.com
Small but nice selection
www.eclassical.com
A high-quality classical download store with an emphasis on classical music
www.pristineclassical.com
Very good selection of classical music available as FLAC in highresolution.
www.acousense.de
Small but classy download shop for classical music in high resolution
www.hifitrack.com
From classic to pop. Emphasis is an artists from China
www.boomkat.com
This is the "Independent Music Specialist" offering a huge range
www.bowers-wilkins.com
Bowers & Wilkins is now offering its own high-bit music in excellent quality
www.magnatune.com
Music downloads with a very alternative product offering, all genres on a subscription basis. Sadly, no Studio Masters
www.classicrecords.at
Classic store with lots of hard-to-find rare items and curiosities as Studio Master downloads
www.rhino.com
THE shop for classic rock and R&B. Alas, few downloads, but good own-combinations
www.qobuz.com
French store, all genres, Studio Master downloads identified according to genre
www.itrax.com
The emphasis is on HD audio. Great selection with option to select the download format
www.hyperion-records.co.uk
Independent classical label in the UK. Studio Master downloads available
www.gimell.com
Classical store. Small but classy, gives you the option to download in different resolutions
www.gubemusic.com
Another small, classy store. Some of the musicians blog here, too
www.highresaudio.com
A shop offering digitalized master tapes, i.e. no upsampled tracks
www.findhdmusic.com
Simple search engine, searches for HD recordings in various online stores
However, it may be these headphones do a better job at decoding lossless 16-bit audio (such as CD rips) than using the iDevice's DA converter and the 3.5mm analog connection. I don't know if the iDevices have 24-bit DA converters. On Macs you have to use Audio Midi Setup to set 24-bit output and sample rates above 44 kHz.
I get that, but there's (obviously) no output setting on iTunes.ipa so I presume the only way to listen to music through the Lighting port is to have Philips create an app that can tap into the music folder on your iPhone and output the digital file that way. Without even seeing this app I'll bet it will suck as Philips isn't a software company, Apple is. The experience will most likely suck.
Digital output from Apple's Lightning connector will allow the Fidelio M2L headphones to eliminate crosstalk and interference.
Pure FUD. The EMF in an audio cable does induce crosstalk and interference, but at microscopic levels. It only becomes an issue when that signal is amplified, bringing the "foreign" audio up to an audible level. That means it's a consideration with interconnect cables between devices before the amplifier, but barely measurable, let alone audible, in a speaker or headphone cable.
I can't read German. In English via Google Translate it says:
"The M2L uses the digital output of the Lightning plug in order to prevent possible crosstalk and interference from the transmission to the analog phone cable."
That's pretty vague statement. Perhaps a case of something being lost in translation, or perhaps deliberately non-specific because it's not so much a genuine benefit as pure marketing fluff. I suspect the latter.
Unless they can come up with some explanation of how and where a digital interface is eliminating crosstalk and interference it's hard to take them seriously on that particular point. The laws of physics unambiguously dismiss the possibility of field effects compromising a speaker line.
That's pretty vague statement. Perhaps a case of something being lost in translation, or perhaps deliberately non-specific because it's not so much a genuine benefit as pure marketing fluff. I suspect the latter.
Unless they can come up with some explanation of how and where a digital interface is eliminating crosstalk and interference it's hard to take them seriously on that particular point. The laws of physics unambiguously dismiss the possibility of field effects compromising a speaker line.
Since it's a digital signal from the iDevice, through the Lightning port, through the cable and ultimately to the headphones's DAC, it is subjected to CRC checksums, which will prevent noise from entering the data stream. Thus, any noise that appears must occur after the DAC conversion which, presumably, will occur as the analog signal travels to each ear speaker.
For conventional headphones with a analog signal emanating from the 3.5mm or 1/4" connector, that signal is already analog as it travels the length of the wire from the iDevice to the ear speakers. It is during this time that noise can appear from ambient sources, unless the manufacturer takes great effort to insulate the wires.
Comments
I agree, I am at a loss to understand how I will charge my phone while listening to music using these headphones.
Cheers
The first-ever Lightning-connected headphones for iOS devices are coming from Philips, offering 24-bit digital to analog conversion thanks to the use of Apple's proprietary connector.
Might be an advantage, might not. Depends on if the DAC in the headphones is any better than the one in the iPhone. There are certainly reasons they COULD be -- more space for better analog circuit designs, extra battery allowing for better power supplies -- but it's not a given that an outboard will automatically be better than what's in the iPhone.
The converter in the iPhone already handles 24-bit files so that part is a red herring.
Note to those saying the iPhone doesn't support 24 bit: You're mixing up word length with sample rate. iDevices do not support sample rates higher than 48 kHz (i.e. 96k and 192k) but they do support 24 bit at 44.1 and 48k.
The new Philips Fidelio M2L headphones can connect to an iPhone, iPad or iPod via Apple's Lightning connector, allowing not only 24-bit DAC, but also amplification within the headphones.
That's a potential benefit. The amplifier in iDevices is woefully underpowered. Again, there's no guarantee that an outboard amp will be any good, but a decent amplifier fed digitally will beat the hell out of re-amplifying a crappy amp the way inline amps that connect to the headphone jack do.
Digital output from Apple's Lightning connector will allow the Fidelio M2L headphones to eliminate crosstalk and interference.
Pure FUD. The EMF in an audio cable does induce crosstalk and interference, but at microscopic levels. It only becomes an issue when that signal is amplified, bringing the "foreign" audio up to an audible level. That means it's a consideration with interconnect cables between devices before the amplifier, but barely measurable, let alone audible, in a speaker or headphone cable.
Apple even allows accessory makers to build applications for iOS that can communicate with the headphones and control how they operate.
Genuine benefit #2.
Use of the Lightning port also allows headphones to receive power from an "iDevice." This would allow headphone makers to reduce bulk by removing necessary battery packs that some require to operate.
So, does the subject of this article have its own battery or is it powered by the phone? The article doesn't say. If the latter, how is it recharged?
Powering the cans with the phone would certainly be more convenient, but then you drain the phone battery faster and sacrifice the potential for using a better power supply in the outboard DAC and amp. Chances are headphones with their own batteries will be better (or at least they have the potential to be), but they'll be bigger and heavier and add one more device to the list of things needing to be charged.
Like all wired headphones, yes.
Not exactly. Powering a pair of Lightning headphones with the iPhone means powering another DAC and another amplifier, so it would drain the iPhone battery more quickly than traditional passive headphones.
Thanks for the confirmation, that is indeed what I got from searching. So, I guess, careful here, next time I simply won't search and pop an audio related question to you...
24bit over Bluetooth? Good luck with that
Well a man can dream right?
That's a good point
I have bought a few albums on that site. And there's http://www.linnrecords.com Also bought 180 grams vinyl at another site.
When looking for alternatives to hdtracks, I DuckDuckGo-ed to this:
www.prostudiomasters.com
Small but nice selection
www.eclassical.com
A high-quality classical download store with an emphasis on classical music
www.pristineclassical.com
Very good selection of classical music available as FLAC in highresolution.
www.acousense.de
Small but classy download shop for classical music in high resolution
www.hifitrack.com
From classic to pop. Emphasis is an artists from China
www.boomkat.com
This is the "Independent Music Specialist" offering a huge range
www.bowers-wilkins.com
Bowers & Wilkins is now offering its own high-bit music in excellent quality
www.magnatune.com
Music downloads with a very alternative product offering, all genres on a subscription basis. Sadly, no Studio Masters
www.classicrecords.at
Classic store with lots of hard-to-find rare items and curiosities as Studio Master downloads
www.rhino.com
THE shop for classic rock and R&B. Alas, few downloads, but good own-combinations
www.qobuz.com
French store, all genres, Studio Master downloads identified according to genre
www.itrax.com
The emphasis is on HD audio. Great selection with option to select the download format
www.hyperion-records.co.uk
Independent classical label in the UK. Studio Master downloads available
www.gimell.com
Classical store. Small but classy, gives you the option to download in different resolutions
www.gubemusic.com
Another small, classy store. Some of the musicians blog here, too
www.highresaudio.com
A shop offering digitalized master tapes, i.e. no upsampled tracks
www.findhdmusic.com
Simple search engine, searches for HD recordings in various online stores
I get that, but there's (obviously) no output setting on iTunes.ipa so I presume the only way to listen to music through the Lighting port is to have Philips create an app that can tap into the music folder on your iPhone and output the digital file that way. Without even seeing this app I'll bet it will suck as Philips isn't a software company, Apple is. The experience will most likely suck.
Oh, welcome to the forum BTW.
I don't know if you can read German, but that is actually what their press release says:
http://www.newscenter.philips.com/de_de/standard/news/consumerlifestyle/2014910_Philips_Fidelio_M2L_Kopfhoerer_mit_Lightning_Anschluss.wpd
I don't know if you can read German, but that is actually what their press release says:
http://www.newscenter.philips.com/de_de/standard/news/consumerlifestyle/2014910_Philips_Fidelio_M2L_Kopfhoerer_mit_Lightning_Anschluss.wpd
I can't read German. In English via Google Translate it says:
That's pretty vague statement. Perhaps a case of something being lost in translation, or perhaps deliberately non-specific because it's not so much a genuine benefit as pure marketing fluff. I suspect the latter.
Unless they can come up with some explanation of how and where a digital interface is eliminating crosstalk and interference it's hard to take them seriously on that particular point. The laws of physics unambiguously dismiss the possibility of field effects compromising a speaker line.
That's pretty vague statement. Perhaps a case of something being lost in translation, or perhaps deliberately non-specific because it's not so much a genuine benefit as pure marketing fluff. I suspect the latter.
Unless they can come up with some explanation of how and where a digital interface is eliminating crosstalk and interference it's hard to take them seriously on that particular point. The laws of physics unambiguously dismiss the possibility of field effects compromising a speaker line.
Since it's a digital signal from the iDevice, through the Lightning port, through the cable and ultimately to the headphones's DAC, it is subjected to CRC checksums, which will prevent noise from entering the data stream. Thus, any noise that appears must occur after the DAC conversion which, presumably, will occur as the analog signal travels to each ear speaker.
For conventional headphones with a analog signal emanating from the 3.5mm or 1/4" connector, that signal is already analog as it travels the length of the wire from the iDevice to the ear speakers. It is during this time that noise can appear from ambient sources, unless the manufacturer takes great effort to insulate the wires.
This is your field of expertise and not something I can't comment on. That said, I didn't want to let your post go unnoticed, so, thanks.