The reason that Walmart and Best Buy have not joined is that they want to be in position to tell the customer which card to use- the one with a lower discount rate. With apple pay, the retailers have to accept whatever the iPhone user has designated on their iPhone.
You know... I wouldn’t put this past them.
That's no different than CostCo (and others) who accept AMEX and Visa buo not Discover ...
It says Apple will be the first to utilize tokenization, do we know what's different between Apple Pay and Google Wallet in relation to tokenization? If Google doesn't use it, what do they use?
I believe they merely encrypt the card information between the phone and the NFC device and down into the retailer's back-end system. There it's utilized by the retailer to complete the transaction, just as though a physical card were swiped.
It sounds like it's the actual card numbers, not a representational card number. There seems to be no special HW or SW to help isolate the data.
Interestingly Google has this basic feature already. Instead of using your Gmail username and password on, say, your Mac in the Mailbox app you log into gmail.com and then set a device you wish log into Gmail with at which point you're given a long, representational password to use with your username. Your regular password won't work for any of the apps that use POP or IMAP or SMTP, you have to use the representational password. This is a feature I've been wanting Apple to add to iCloud for awhile.
Apple made it clear that they generate a one-time token that gets used instead of your actual credit card number.
That seems to be the best (only?) way I'd want it to be.
I still get a straight answer on if it's a one-time representational card number token plus per card per device that is then given to the bank for verification, or if it's a one-time per use representable card number token per card per device that uses an internal clock to change the PIN every minute (or so) like SecurID. The latter would definitely be more secure but it's also tricker to implement. For example, let's say you go hiking for a week and your iPhone battery has been dead for a few days. You finally get some power but you still don't have a network connection yet this place accepts ?Pay. Would that token system still be synced up? Would that need it's own dedicated battery and system (like SecurID) that will last years or would you need to have a network connection to make the proper sync with your bank's system? Doesn't that sync add a level of insecurity to the system? My guess is it's the former.
If you don't use TouchID for 24 hours (or is it 48) or reboot, TouchID is deactivated unti you logon using your password/pin.
Why Wal-Mart and Best Buy aren't going to adopt it is anyone's guess. I don't believe Wal-Mart's registers have NFC, so it would be a large undertaking for them to add it and Wal-Mart is a very frugal company. I hear Best Buy has the hardware but it is turned off, but I wouldn't know.
I'm too aggressive to be an Apple CEO.
Anyone who's seen iPad POS registers know that they make all other machines look ancient in comparison.
Frugal? If I were Apple I'd give away iPad POS systems to All Wal-Mart retailers and have them pay a tiny insurance fee on registers. Enable ApplePay, problem solved.
Best Buy don't wanna participate?
I'd make the same iPad proposition to upgrade their registers free.
Still won't budge?
I'd pull all Apple/Beats products from shelves. Let them push Sammy. Then build an Apple store next to every Best Buy in the country.Pay my employees better and advertise Beats flash sales until Best Buy cries uncle.
Add Insult to Best Buy's Injury Bonus:
Acquire Verifone (NYSE: PAY, located near Cupertino) and nail their coffin shut.
The old world retailers are losing their competitive edge and are not doing themselves any favours by being last to adopt new and better technology. Guess they have to feel it on the bottom-line before they change course.
Best Buy will be the first to fold.. they are having issues with their big box traffic with competition... They will not want to risk loosing possible sales by not accepting a suddenly large form of payment like Apple Pay.
Walmart has more clout though.. along with their Sams Club arm.. Sam's Club has traditionally bucked the normal payment scheme's.. They still don't accept VISA.. and only just recently started taking MC.
They are big Discover card fans.. and you'll note the one card not on Apple Pay... DISCOVER..
Discover already announced it would in fact be on Apple Pay.
There's one more pain for Apple Pay - it will never be accepted by Amazon. I will not be surprised if Amazon comes up with their own system next year, and we would see the same credit card companies and banks involved with Amazon too. This will only lead to more fragmentation of payment methods, but will not generate any financial benefit for consumers - the banks and credit cards are still in control. For consumers to have a real benefit, we need something to challenge banks and credit card companies, so a completely new money management system to compete with these guys.
So, the DAN is created when you add the credit card to the device and stored securely and not recreated every time. When the payment is made at the register, the DAN is used and not your credit card information, as it would be done when swiping the card. So only the DAN is transmitted between your phone and the NFC terminal.
The DAN is not created when you add your credit card. What is created is probably an ID and a secure pair. When you pay, you generate a DAN that comprises the ID, encrypt it with the private key, then append the public key. The backend uses the public key to decrypt the DAN, recognize it is a ?Pay transaction and asks somewhere (Apple, Visa?) to translate the ID into a card account. At this stage, the backend server can detect any anomaly (stolen, invalid or expired card, etc.) and refuse the payment.
No card number is transmitted, just an encrypted ID, and, surmising that the DAN includes the exact time of the transaction with a 1/100 s or 1/1000 s resolution, it is a one-time token that cannot be used again.
It says Apple will be the first to utilize tokenization, do we know what's different between Apple Pay and Google Wallet in relation to tokenization? If Google doesn't use it, what do they use?
Google Wallet uses virtual prepaid credit cards issued by Bancorp. Your real information is never shared with the merchant. In fact, the use of virtual prepaid cards is one of my sore spots with Google Wallet. Prepaid cards, in the US, are not accepted at gas pumps, some automated vending machines, and a few stores that I frequent (don't accept debit), which makes the use of the wallet more limited for me.
Are you sure? That makes it much less convenient in terms of usability and speed if that is the case.
Yes, a connection would be required to generate a valid token on the network as well as to ensure that your device is still authorized to use the cards (I.e. Lost Phone in Find my Phone hasn't been invoked).
It says Apple will be the first to utilize tokenization, do we know what's different between Apple Pay and Google Wallet in relation to tokenization? If Google doesn't use it, what do they use?
Google puts all your personal date in the air. They do this partly because they want to paw it over and nose around in your business... such knowledge is money to them as it's salable, With Apple's token system even the retailer won't know who you are...much less what your credit card number might have been. Meanwhile all apple knows is that a transfer took place, they don't have any idea what you bought or who you or the retailer were.
There's one more pain for Apple Pay - it will never be accepted by Amazon. I will not be surprised if Amazon comes up with their own system next year, and we would see the same credit card companies and banks involved with Amazon too. This will only lead to more fragmentation of payment methods, but will not generate any financial benefit for consumers - the banks and credit cards are still in control. For consumers to have a real benefit, we need something to challenge banks and credit card companies, so a completely new money management system to compete with these guys.
I believe you are incorrect with that opening statement. Here's why. I will be able to use ApplePay with my current iPhone5 for over the internet purchases. That point was pointed out on the ninth. So, Apple will be able to include Apple Pay on 200 million iPhones from day one. It is the touch and go that will require the iPhone 6, 6+ and the Watch.
Amazon is a very pragmatic company. They will not do anything to make doing business with them a pain... the customer remains their god.
Thats very interesting and something I haven't thought of before. If say a merchant does not take American Express, but the person paying with Apple Pay chooses their Amex Card from Passport, the merchant gets paid anyway by Apple? This could really help Credit Cards get into places where they are not accepted today.
I believe you are incorrect with that opening statement. Here's why. I will be able to use ApplePay with my current iPhone5 for over the internet purchases. That point was pointed out on the ninth. So, Apple will be able to include Apple Pay on 200 million iPhones from day one. It is the touch and go that will require the iPhone 6, 6+ and the Watch.
Amazon is a very pragmatic company. They will not do anything to make doing business with them a pain... the customer remains their god.
As pragmatic as they might be, Amazon still wants to compete with Apple - both with devices and content/ecosystem. The day you will see Amazon join in on Apple Pay is the day Bezos has exhausted all alternatives and Amazon is actually losing money for not accepting Apple Pay.
As for the 200 million devices - Apple Pay will only be available on iPhone 6 and 6+, older models will not have it.
As pragmatic as they might be, Amazon still wants to compete with Apple - both with devices and content/ecosystem. The day you will see Amazon join in on Apple Pay is the day Bezos has exhausted all alternatives and Amazon is actually losing money for not accepting Apple Pay.
As for the 200 million devices - Apple Pay will only be available on iPhone 6 and 6+, older models will not have it.
Notice that PayPal and Amazon are doing just fine without each other.
Comments
I'll shop at Target before I ever step foot in Walmart. As for Best Buy, they make a great showroom for Amazon.
November 2014.
That's no different than CostCo (and others) who accept AMEX and Visa buo not Discover ...
If you don't use TouchID for 24 hours (or is it 48) or reboot, TouchID is deactivated unti you logon using your password/pin.
?Boom!
And you find this..."Offensive"?
(Dating myself, I suppose....)
I'm too aggressive to be an Apple CEO.
Anyone who's seen iPad POS registers know that they make all other machines look ancient in comparison.
Frugal? If I were Apple I'd give away iPad POS systems to All Wal-Mart retailers and have them pay a tiny insurance fee on registers. Enable ApplePay, problem solved.
Best Buy don't wanna participate?
I'd make the same iPad proposition to upgrade their registers free.
Still won't budge?
I'd pull all Apple/Beats products from shelves. Let them push Sammy. Then build an Apple store next to every Best Buy in the country.Pay my employees better and advertise Beats flash sales until Best Buy cries uncle.
Add Insult to Best Buy's Injury Bonus:
Acquire Verifone (NYSE: PAY, located near Cupertino) and nail their coffin shut.
Best Buy will be the first to fold.. they are having issues with their big box traffic with competition... They will not want to risk loosing possible sales by not accepting a suddenly large form of payment like Apple Pay.
Walmart has more clout though.. along with their Sams Club arm.. Sam's Club has traditionally bucked the normal payment scheme's.. They still don't accept VISA.. and only just recently started taking MC.
They are big Discover card fans.. and you'll note the one card not on Apple Pay... DISCOVER..
Discover already announced it would in fact be on Apple Pay.
There's one more pain for Apple Pay - it will never be accepted by Amazon. I will not be surprised if Amazon comes up with their own system next year, and we would see the same credit card companies and banks involved with Amazon too. This will only lead to more fragmentation of payment methods, but will not generate any financial benefit for consumers - the banks and credit cards are still in control. For consumers to have a real benefit, we need something to challenge banks and credit card companies, so a completely new money management system to compete with these guys.
So, the DAN is created when you add the credit card to the device and stored securely and not recreated every time. When the payment is made at the register, the DAN is used and not your credit card information, as it would be done when swiping the card. So only the DAN is transmitted between your phone and the NFC terminal.
The DAN is not created when you add your credit card. What is created is probably an ID and a secure pair. When you pay, you generate a DAN that comprises the ID, encrypt it with the private key, then append the public key. The backend uses the public key to decrypt the DAN, recognize it is a ?Pay transaction and asks somewhere (Apple, Visa?) to translate the ID into a card account. At this stage, the backend server can detect any anomaly (stolen, invalid or expired card, etc.) and refuse the payment.
No card number is transmitted, just an encrypted ID, and, surmising that the DAN includes the exact time of the transaction with a 1/100 s or 1/1000 s resolution, it is a one-time token that cannot be used again.
Google Wallet uses virtual prepaid credit cards issued by Bancorp. Your real information is never shared with the merchant. In fact, the use of virtual prepaid cards is one of my sore spots with Google Wallet. Prepaid cards, in the US, are not accepted at gas pumps, some automated vending machines, and a few stores that I frequent (don't accept debit), which makes the use of the wallet more limited for me.
Yes, a connection would be required to generate a valid token on the network as well as to ensure that your device is still authorized to use the cards (I.e. Lost Phone in Find my Phone hasn't been invoked).
Google puts all your personal date in the air. They do this partly because they want to paw it over and nose around in your business... such knowledge is money to them as it's salable, With Apple's token system even the retailer won't know who you are...much less what your credit card number might have been. Meanwhile all apple knows is that a transfer took place, they don't have any idea what you bought or who you or the retailer were.
I believe you are incorrect with that opening statement. Here's why. I will be able to use ApplePay with my current iPhone5 for over the internet purchases. That point was pointed out on the ninth. So, Apple will be able to include Apple Pay on 200 million iPhones from day one. It is the touch and go that will require the iPhone 6, 6+ and the Watch.
Amazon is a very pragmatic company. They will not do anything to make doing business with them a pain... the customer remains their god.
Thats very interesting and something I haven't thought of before. If say a merchant does not take American Express, but the person paying with Apple Pay chooses their Amex Card from Passport, the merchant gets paid anyway by Apple? This could really help Credit Cards get into places where they are not accepted today.
I believe you are incorrect with that opening statement. Here's why. I will be able to use ApplePay with my current iPhone5 for over the internet purchases. That point was pointed out on the ninth. So, Apple will be able to include Apple Pay on 200 million iPhones from day one. It is the touch and go that will require the iPhone 6, 6+ and the Watch.
Amazon is a very pragmatic company. They will not do anything to make doing business with them a pain... the customer remains their god.
As pragmatic as they might be, Amazon still wants to compete with Apple - both with devices and content/ecosystem. The day you will see Amazon join in on Apple Pay is the day Bezos has exhausted all alternatives and Amazon is actually losing money for not accepting Apple Pay.
As for the 200 million devices - Apple Pay will only be available on iPhone 6 and 6+, older models will not have it.
Notice that PayPal and Amazon are doing just fine without each other.