I guess if they go with AMD then we should expect a R7 265 on the basic with 2gb and then on the top with a R9 270x/275x also with 2gb and an option for the R9 290x with 4gb... If they keep the present GPU layout. Will be a nice iMac no matter what it has.
Broadwell? 14nm? Faster? Next gen GPU? Needs less power to do more?
Apple hasn't refreshed iMacs in a while and now that it seems they gonna go for the Retina iMac, waiting few more months won't kill anybody. (Though ofc assuming rumours are true)
So, more specs. And longer battery life on the iMac. Got it.
Well using less power doesn't just mean longer batter life (which is nonsense when it comes to a plugged device), it also means it produces less heat, sure you know about CPU/GPU throttling which could be an issue regarding the 5k display.
Well using less power doesn't just mean longer batter life (which is nonsense when it comes to a plugged device), it also means it produces less heat, sure you know about CPU/GPU throttling which could be an issue regarding the 5k display.
True enough. I was reacting to the speculation that this new iMac would be $3000 or even $5000. That's insane. The entry level 27" iMac today is $1800. If Apple rolls out a new retina iMac, I expect it to come in around that same price and be a great value for dollar.
Guys. Please. Let's be pragmatic for a moment. There are two possibilities.
(1) This rumor is simply bogus. Not because there are is no a 4K/5K iMac in Apple's labs (most likely there is), but because the heat management in the iMac's thin enclosure is such a technological feat that it looks impossible to solve today without seriously impairing performance. But let's say that Apple has a surprise in that department and that the new iMac is about to be released, which leads us to point 2:
(2) The price is going to be really high. Good quality 5K displays cost more than $2000. For example, Dell's UltraSharp 27 Ultra HD 5K monitor will launch at a whopping $2500! This is for the display only! A turbocharged BTO iMac equipped with such a display, can easily exceed $4000. If I am not mistaken, the higher quality IGZO displays are even more expensive and I don't see Apple using a low quality display in such a machine, when this is the main point of focus.
On the other hand I am wondering why no one talks about 10-bit color. Isn't that possible with the GPU's that usually power the iMac? To me it looks more important to offer 10-bit color space and keep or slightly increase the resolution, than to double the resolution and use previous' century color technology.
(1) This rumor is simply bogus. Not because there are is no a 4K/5K iMac in Apple's labs (most likely there is), but because the heat management in the iMac's thin enclosure is such a technological feat that it looks impossible to solve today without seriously impairing performance. But let's say that Apple has a surprise in that department and that the new iMac is about to be released, which leads us to point 2:
This is the company that put two Radeon 7970 equivalent, along with a 12-core Xeon, in a 9.9in tall case with 1 fan, that you are talking about.
This is the company that put two Radeon 7970 equivalent, along with a 12-core Xeon, in a 9.9in tall case, with 1 fan, that you are talking about.
Completely different thermodynamics. Note also that the Mac Pro display is not exposed to this heat.
If going 5K means a redesign for the iMac, then so be it. For me the most interesting part will be to see how a 5K iMac with the existing enclosure will stand its ground under heavy CPU+GPU pressure.
For me the most interesting part will be to see how a 5K iMac with the existing enclosure will stand its ground under heavy CPU+GPU pressure.
The current iMac is fine under heavy load and the new parts will have the same power draw. There will likely be extra sustained load but the performance per watt will have improved too. Say that the current UI puts a GPU under 10% sustained load, 5K might push it to 30% but then improved performance per watt can bring it back down to say 20%. GPUs only get really hot when running games and they tend to max out regardless. Overall, it should perform almost identically to the current iMac. You can see this with the Retina iPhone, iPad and MBP already. The load on the rMBP GPU wasn't significantly worse going from 1440x900 to 2880x1800. Going from 2560x1440 to 5120x2880 is the same deal.
The current iMac is fine under heavy load and the new parts will have the same power draw. There will likely be extra sustained load but the performance per watt will have improved too. Say that the current UI puts a GPU under 10% sustained load, 5K might push it to 30% but then improved performance per watt can bring it back down to say 20%. GPUs only get really hot when running games and they tend to max out regardless. Overall, it should perform almost identically to the current iMac. You can see this with the Retina iPhone, iPad and MBP already. The load on the rMBP GPU wasn't significantly worse going from 1440x900 to 2880x1800. Going from 2560x1440 to 5120x2880 is the same deal.
OK, this is a reasonable argument. My main reservations are that the thermal output of the iMac is significantly higher to begin with, so even a 20% increase in anything may be problematic, and that the display is exposed to the heat. We will see how all these work in practice if the 5K iMac is released next month.
I may not be much of an iMac fan but here I have to defend the machine a bit as it has never been a gaming machine nor has it ever targeted that niche. So I can't fathom why you would even bring gaming into the discussion. Depending upon how those GPUs perform though, this machine would be of interest to far more niches than web browsing. Design work comes to mind.
I have the current 27 iMac with i5, 16GB, 256 SSD, and the nVidia 780 4GB card and windows bootcamp. The iMac can run any game I throw at it. WoW, Wildstar and other games all run at Ultra settings at 40-90 FPS. @2560x1440
So yes, the iMac can be a gaming machine for those that don't want a separate $2000 windows machine in addition to their iMac.
But, 4k/5k resolution will wipe that ability. 2560x1440 is high enough. I hope they keep making the normal models and just simply add one that is a retina display.
If they only do 4k/5k screens, I won't upgrade since I do game on my machine. I will sell my current model while it still has value and build a gaming machine and just get a mac mini for my apple stuff.
I have the current 27 iMac with i5, 16GB, 256 SSD, and the nVidia 780 4GB card and windows bootcamp. The iMac can run any game I throw at it. WoW, Wildstar and other games all run at Ultra settings at 40-90 FPS. @2560x1440
So yes, the iMac can be a gaming machine for those that don't want a separate $2000 windows machine in addition to their iMac.
But, 4k/5k resolution will wipe that ability. 2560x1440 is high enough. I hope they keep making the normal models and just simply add one that is a retina display.
If they only do 4k/5k screens, I won't upgrade since I do game on my machine. I will sell my current model while it still has value and build a gaming machine and just get a mac mini for my apple stuff.
Uhm, if gaming at 2560x1440 is ok on your current iMac, why wouldn't it be OK when the monitor has a 5120x2880 native resolution? I sometimes game at 1920x1080 on my 2560x1440, and even with non-integer scaling, my eyes still don't bleed. 2560x1440 is perfect 1:2 and wouldn't suffer at all.
Generally speaking, gaming would benefit very little to none at all by increased resolution beyond 2560x1440. Text, graphical design are a given, and I would love to see my photos displayed at that resolution. Maps and other line art, 4k video at full resolution while still having access to tools, the list goes on and on. Talk to rMBPro users, and ask them about whether they find the increased resolution useful.
Once you've enjoyed it, going back is not an attractive proposition.
I predict a $300-$500 increase in price over the current iMac. The Retina MacBook Pros were available at a price point above their predecessors, so it's reasonable to assume there'll be an increase in the cost of a Retina iMac. There might even be a different name for this machine, like iMac Pro.
I agree with your speculation of an iMac (Retina) Pro. I wouldn't be suprised if a version of the current line up was speed-bumped and another iMacPro catagory was added. I would go with this 5K model (although I know many of my MacFriends couldn't care less). iMacPro @ $2,499 with the others the same, except they delete the higher end BTO machines for iMP.
5k is kind of pointless. It doesnt net you enough extra space to work with 4k at full res with toolbars and timeline in the same display. Most NLE work involves output to a dedicated HD/2k/4k monitor. With timeline and such on another display.
It also pushes a bit too hard at the bleeding edge. Which is not a place we are familiar with seeing Apple. In some regards they do push tech such as with the cooling of the Mac Pro. But that same Mac Pro is hardly cutting edge in terms of Ram speed (DDR3?) or CPU.
And then there are all the early adopters with those Mac Pros that will be looking at any new iMac ssaying "hey Apple did you forget about us, where is our bleeping Apple monitor?!".
The TB Display is designed for use with a MBP, and is based on an iMac design a few years old now.
It also pushes a bit too hard at the bleeding edge. Which is not a place we are familiar with seeing Apple.
Well they did have the first Retina phone in the iPhone 4, and the first Retina laptop in the 2012 Macbook Pro. If they think 5k qualifies as Retina for a 27" display but 4K does not, then it would be consistent for them to be first with 5K. Maybe they will be conservative and go with 4K though. I guess we will all know in ~11 hours.
Comments
O ye of little faith.
Will be a nice iMac no matter what it has.
Apple please wait a few more months till the next generation of intel CPUs are out which use 14nm tech.
As a photo retoucher who is used to retouching at 100% 1 to 1 pixel size, this new wave of technology is going to make me blind.
Someone will force you to buy a Retina iMac, and then force you to set the resolution to 5K?
Because why?
Because why?
Broadwell? 14nm? Faster? Next gen GPU? Needs less power to do more?
Apple hasn't refreshed iMacs in a while and now that it seems they gonna go for the Retina iMac, waiting few more months won't kill anybody. (Though ofc assuming rumours are true)
So, more specs. And longer battery life on the iMac. Got it.
So, more specs. And longer battery life on the iMac. Got it.
Well using less power doesn't just mean longer batter life (which is nonsense when it comes to a plugged device), it also means it produces less heat, sure you know about CPU/GPU throttling which could be an issue regarding the 5k display.
Well using less power doesn't just mean longer batter life (which is nonsense when it comes to a plugged device), it also means it produces less heat, sure you know about CPU/GPU throttling which could be an issue regarding the 5k display.
That's why we have the Mac Pro. Seriously.
Look at the price difference compared to the 2 of them.
True enough. I was reacting to the speculation that this new iMac would be $3000 or even $5000. That's insane. The entry level 27" iMac today is $1800. If Apple rolls out a new retina iMac, I expect it to come in around that same price and be a great value for dollar.
Guys. Please. Let's be pragmatic for a moment. There are two possibilities.
(1) This rumor is simply bogus. Not because there are is no a 4K/5K iMac in Apple's labs (most likely there is), but because the heat management in the iMac's thin enclosure is such a technological feat that it looks impossible to solve today without seriously impairing performance. But let's say that Apple has a surprise in that department and that the new iMac is about to be released, which leads us to point 2:
(2) The price is going to be really high. Good quality 5K displays cost more than $2000. For example, Dell's UltraSharp 27 Ultra HD 5K monitor will launch at a whopping $2500! This is for the display only! A turbocharged BTO iMac equipped with such a display, can easily exceed $4000. If I am not mistaken, the higher quality IGZO displays are even more expensive and I don't see Apple using a low quality display in such a machine, when this is the main point of focus.
On the other hand I am wondering why no one talks about 10-bit color. Isn't that possible with the GPU's that usually power the iMac? To me it looks more important to offer 10-bit color space and keep or slightly increase the resolution, than to double the resolution and use previous' century color technology.
(1) This rumor is simply bogus. Not because there are is no a 4K/5K iMac in Apple's labs (most likely there is), but because the heat management in the iMac's thin enclosure is such a technological feat that it looks impossible to solve today without seriously impairing performance. But let's say that Apple has a surprise in that department and that the new iMac is about to be released, which leads us to point 2:
This is the company that put two Radeon 7970 equivalent, along with a 12-core Xeon, in a 9.9in tall case with 1 fan, that you are talking about.
This is the company that put two Radeon 7970 equivalent, along with a 12-core Xeon, in a 9.9in tall case, with 1 fan, that you are talking about.
Completely different thermodynamics. Note also that the Mac Pro display is not exposed to this heat.
If going 5K means a redesign for the iMac, then so be it. For me the most interesting part will be to see how a 5K iMac with the existing enclosure will stand its ground under heavy CPU+GPU pressure.
The current iMac is fine under heavy load and the new parts will have the same power draw. There will likely be extra sustained load but the performance per watt will have improved too. Say that the current UI puts a GPU under 10% sustained load, 5K might push it to 30% but then improved performance per watt can bring it back down to say 20%. GPUs only get really hot when running games and they tend to max out regardless. Overall, it should perform almost identically to the current iMac. You can see this with the Retina iPhone, iPad and MBP already. The load on the rMBP GPU wasn't significantly worse going from 1440x900 to 2880x1800. Going from 2560x1440 to 5120x2880 is the same deal.
The current iMac is fine under heavy load and the new parts will have the same power draw. There will likely be extra sustained load but the performance per watt will have improved too. Say that the current UI puts a GPU under 10% sustained load, 5K might push it to 30% but then improved performance per watt can bring it back down to say 20%. GPUs only get really hot when running games and they tend to max out regardless. Overall, it should perform almost identically to the current iMac. You can see this with the Retina iPhone, iPad and MBP already. The load on the rMBP GPU wasn't significantly worse going from 1440x900 to 2880x1800. Going from 2560x1440 to 5120x2880 is the same deal.
OK, this is a reasonable argument. My main reservations are that the thermal output of the iMac is significantly higher to begin with, so even a 20% increase in anything may be problematic, and that the display is exposed to the heat. We will see how all these work in practice if the 5K iMac is released next month.
Sounds like an AMD GPU.
I may not be much of an iMac fan but here I have to defend the machine a bit as it has never been a gaming machine nor has it ever targeted that niche. So I can't fathom why you would even bring gaming into the discussion. Depending upon how those GPUs perform though, this machine would be of interest to far more niches than web browsing. Design work comes to mind.
I have the current 27 iMac with i5, 16GB, 256 SSD, and the nVidia 780 4GB card and windows bootcamp. The iMac can run any game I throw at it. WoW, Wildstar and other games all run at Ultra settings at 40-90 FPS. @2560x1440
So yes, the iMac can be a gaming machine for those that don't want a separate $2000 windows machine in addition to their iMac.
But, 4k/5k resolution will wipe that ability. 2560x1440 is high enough. I hope they keep making the normal models and just simply add one that is a retina display.
If they only do 4k/5k screens, I won't upgrade since I do game on my machine. I will sell my current model while it still has value and build a gaming machine and just get a mac mini for my apple stuff.
I have the current 27 iMac with i5, 16GB, 256 SSD, and the nVidia 780 4GB card and windows bootcamp. The iMac can run any game I throw at it. WoW, Wildstar and other games all run at Ultra settings at 40-90 FPS. @2560x1440
So yes, the iMac can be a gaming machine for those that don't want a separate $2000 windows machine in addition to their iMac.
But, 4k/5k resolution will wipe that ability. 2560x1440 is high enough. I hope they keep making the normal models and just simply add one that is a retina display.
If they only do 4k/5k screens, I won't upgrade since I do game on my machine. I will sell my current model while it still has value and build a gaming machine and just get a mac mini for my apple stuff.
Uhm, if gaming at 2560x1440 is ok on your current iMac, why wouldn't it be OK when the monitor has a 5120x2880 native resolution? I sometimes game at 1920x1080 on my 2560x1440, and even with non-integer scaling, my eyes still don't bleed. 2560x1440 is perfect 1:2 and wouldn't suffer at all.
Generally speaking, gaming would benefit very little to none at all by increased resolution beyond 2560x1440. Text, graphical design are a given, and I would love to see my photos displayed at that resolution. Maps and other line art, 4k video at full resolution while still having access to tools, the list goes on and on. Talk to rMBPro users, and ask them about whether they find the increased resolution useful.
Once you've enjoyed it, going back is not an attractive proposition.
I predict a $300-$500 increase in price over the current iMac. The Retina MacBook Pros were available at a price point above their predecessors, so it's reasonable to assume there'll be an increase in the cost of a Retina iMac. There might even be a different name for this machine, like iMac Pro.
I agree with your speculation of an iMac (Retina) Pro. I wouldn't be suprised if a version of the current line up was speed-bumped and another iMacPro catagory was added. I would go with this 5K model (although I know many of my MacFriends couldn't care less). iMacPro @ $2,499 with the others the same, except they delete the higher end BTO machines for iMP.
5k is kind of pointless. It doesnt net you enough extra space to work with 4k at full res with toolbars and timeline in the same display. Most NLE work involves output to a dedicated HD/2k/4k monitor. With timeline and such on another display.
It also pushes a bit too hard at the bleeding edge. Which is not a place we are familiar with seeing Apple. In some regards they do push tech such as with the cooling of the Mac Pro. But that same Mac Pro is hardly cutting edge in terms of Ram speed (DDR3?) or CPU.
And then there are all the early adopters with those Mac Pros that will be looking at any new iMac ssaying "hey Apple did you forget about us, where is our bleeping Apple monitor?!".
The TB Display is designed for use with a MBP, and is based on an iMac design a few years old now.
Whatever it is, I hope it comes in black.
It also pushes a bit too hard at the bleeding edge. Which is not a place we are familiar with seeing Apple.
Well they did have the first Retina phone in the iPhone 4, and the first Retina laptop in the 2012 Macbook Pro. If they think 5k qualifies as Retina for a 27" display but 4K does not, then it would be consistent for them to be first with 5K. Maybe they will be conservative and go with 4K though. I guess we will all know in ~11 hours.