MC7455 == "Apollo"
I'm sure a number of you have read this already, but for the benefit of those who have not, the G4's shipping in the new PowerMac's are indeed the "Apollo" chips. They also have the ability to access DDR RAM (at least cache).
Thus it makes sense that the next speed bump, coming in 5-6 months (or perhaps MacWorld/NY) will be DDR-based PowerMac G4 "Apollo" towers.
From: <a href="http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0201/29.motorola.php"; target="_blank">http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0201/29.motorola.php</a>;
[quote]William Swearingen, Director of Strategic Communications at Motorola, told MacCentral that the G4s driving Apple's new G4 mini-tower systems are indeed the long anticipated Apollo processors. Labeled MPC 7455 and MPC 7445, the Apollo G4s achieve all of the goals that Motorola outlined at the 2000 Microprocessor Forum -- namely GHz+ performance, fabrication using SOI (Silicon On Insulator) technology, the ability to have a 2MB DDR (Double Data Rate) L3 cache, and a superior power consumption/performance ratio. <hr></blockquote>
[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: moki ]</p>
Thus it makes sense that the next speed bump, coming in 5-6 months (or perhaps MacWorld/NY) will be DDR-based PowerMac G4 "Apollo" towers.
From: <a href="http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0201/29.motorola.php"; target="_blank">http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0201/29.motorola.php</a>;
[quote]William Swearingen, Director of Strategic Communications at Motorola, told MacCentral that the G4s driving Apple's new G4 mini-tower systems are indeed the long anticipated Apollo processors. Labeled MPC 7455 and MPC 7445, the Apollo G4s achieve all of the goals that Motorola outlined at the 2000 Microprocessor Forum -- namely GHz+ performance, fabrication using SOI (Silicon On Insulator) technology, the ability to have a 2MB DDR (Double Data Rate) L3 cache, and a superior power consumption/performance ratio. <hr></blockquote>
[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: moki ]</p>
Comments
I mentioned this in another thread, but I'm also guessing MWNY for, lack of a better term, 'real Apollo' (read DDR, etc etc). Do you think the fab will go to 0.15 microns?
How does 1.4-1.8 GHz at MWNY sound (with a bump at say WWDC in between, old mobo)?
BTW: congrats on the Snapz bundle!
Not that I'm troubled by that or anything. I'm perfectly happy with my dualie 1 GHz.
[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
Of course, I could be full of crap too.....
[QB]It took six months to go from 867 to 1 GHz. What makes you think we'll see 1.4 GHz in the next 6 months? That's being awfully optimistic.<hr></blockquote>
It could happen. Consider that the main reason for the Apollo chips is to allow for higher clockspeeds with less heat dissapation.
I think we could easily see 1.4 GHZ by MWNY. Maybe even 1.6 GHZ.
Of course, it all depends what Apple has in mind. I really think the Apollos are more for Powerbooks (The fast chips) , iMacs and iBooks.
The Apollos give these machines some legs for quite awhile. It will give Apple time to get the pricing down on all the technologies that will be introduced with the G5's.
One Question: How far ahead (or behind) schedule is the arrival of this particular round of G4's per the G-series roadmap? Can we extrapolate from the timeliness of this arrival how far away the G5's might really be?
Just a thought....I still don't expect them until Q1 or Q2 of 2003.
D
<strong>I'm sure a number of you have read this already, but for the benefit of those who have not, the G4's shipping in the new PowerMac's are indeed the "Apollo" chips. They also have the ability to access DDR RAM (at least cache).
Thus it makes sense that the next speed bump, coming in 5-6 months (or perhaps MacWorld/NY) will be DDR-based PowerMac G4 "Apollo" towers.
From: <a href="http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0201/29.motorola.php"; target="_blank">http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0201/29.motorola.php</a>;
[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: moki ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
no where does it mention the addition of DDR support on a bus level. in fact it states its restricted to 133
<strong>I think we could easily see 1.4 GHZ by MWNY. Maybe even 1.6 GHZ.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Stop it. The 7451 appears to top out at 867Mhz. SOI will add about 25% clock speed, putting it up to about 1.1 Ghz.
The only way it will get faster is if they put it on the smaller Hip7 fab process, but no report has ever suggested the G4 would use that technology. That's for the G5.
<strong>
It could happen. Consider that the main reason for the Apollo chips is to allow for higher clockspeeds with less heat dissapation.</strong><hr></blockquote>
that sounds like a hint about xBooks?
yes, and congrats. i just hope apple is paying to bundle a full version, not the 15 day free trial?
There is some hope that the design will have better legs than the current machines would indicate. Since the 7455 is only recently in production its likely that supplies are still constrained and Apple is only using the chips that it can get lots of. Over the next few months they'll accumulate stocks of the faster chips, the production line will get better at producing the faster chips and the process shink may arrive. The 7400 went from 450 MHz to 733 MHz without any design changes, if the 7455 undergoes similar improvements we might see it reach 1.5 GHz or so by the end of its life.
Motorola announced the 7450 and 7455 over a year before they were each released, but they haven't announced any more G4 updates since the Apollo.
Apple will be keeping them quiet about the G5. Its like the flat-panel iMac and the PowerBook G4... we all know its coming, but no-one knows when because of the Apple rumor crackdown).
Motorola better have the G5 ready soon if they don't want raving hoards of Apple loonies buring their HQ to the ground... I don't think many people would be pleased if we get stuck at ~1GHz for a year or more...
Barto
[ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
<hr></blockquote>
No, the 7400 never made it past 500 MHz. The 7410 was used for 466 and 533 MHz, and the 667 and 733 MHz chips were 7450s.
A 20% boost in speed from SOI brings the 867 MHz 7450 up to ~1GHz. If shrinking the process gives us another 15%, then the G4 will top out at ~1.15 GHz....so I think it's reasonable to assume the G4 architecture will scale no higher than ~1.25 GHz.
Anything beyond 1.2 GHz is going to be the G5, and the G5 will arrive between MWNY and MWSF. Let's hope the G5 lives up to rumors and scales up to 1.6-1.8 GHz to start. That would finally push Powermacs out of the embarrassing category. Then we'll have to worry about how Moto will compete in the 2-5 GHz range, which Intel is going to be in before long.
<strong>yes, and congrats. i just hope apple is paying to bundle a full version, not the 15 day free trial?</strong><hr></blockquote>
My guess is that it's the trial version, and no money is changing hands over it. (But I'm sure Andrew is thrilled at how many people are going to end up registering it...)
Alex
<strong>
My guess is that it's the trial version, and no money is changing hands over it. (But I'm sure Andrew is thrilled at how many people are going to end up registering it...)
Alex</strong><hr></blockquote>
I read on at least one of the involved software author's websites that the bundled version was a full and registered. And I've surfed too damn many sites today to remember which one I was looking at to note that. I'm only 30 but Old-Timer's desease seems to be setting in rather firmly already.
[QB]I'm sure a number of you have read this already, but for the benefit of those who have not, the G4's shipping in the new PowerMac's are indeed the "Apollo" chips. They also have the ability to access DDR RAM (at least cache).
Is here realy something new?
M. Isobe has posted on 03-30-2001 that 7450 support DDR for L3 cashe.
See <a href="http://bbs.xlr8yourmac.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000757.html"; target="_blank">http://bbs.xlr8yourmac.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000757.html</a>;
Rooster
didn't the pipeline increase from 4 to 7 somewhere along the way?
<strong>So the Apollo's are here.
One Question: How far ahead (or behind) schedule is the arrival of this particular round of G4's per the G-series roadmap?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The "roadmap" is useless: a vague wave at intentions for the future. No information; no schedule; no map.
[quote]<strong>Can we extrapolate from the timeliness of this arrival how far away the G5's might really be?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No.
I really expected HiP7(re: 0.13µ), I expected too much.
The reason I expected HiP7, you ask.
Motorola has been manufacturing embedded cores using HiP7 since April 2001.
Motorola press release April 9, 2001.
<a href="http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=mot&script=411&layout=-6&item_id=164832"; target="_blank">http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=mot&script=411&layout=-6&item_id=164832</a>;
[quote]Motorola is currently running embedded microprocessor cores on this advanced 0.13 micron process.<hr></blockquote>
I guess 7 - 9 months actual manufacturing experience isn't enough time to work out the kinks in production for a processor as complex as the G4 Apollo.
But I do expect the Apollo to appear some day on HiP7
from the same press release.
[quote]"Examples of future implementation include products such as baseband chips used in cellular phones, digital signal processors (DSPs) used in wireless infrastructure applications such as routers, and PowerPC? microprocessors used in computing and networking applications."<hr></blockquote>
Any one venture a guess as to when? Exactly how much experience using HiP7 for embedded processors does it take? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
BTW, I think it is awesome that the dual 1GHz are shipping and you can get one if you want. No 2 weeks or a month away.