Horsepower of Apple's A8 & iPhone 6 extend iOS's gaming lead over Android's Google Play

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  • Reply 81 of 121
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,748member
    relic wrote: »
    Actually if he's running the latest version of Android and a none Intel processor he could side load pretty much whatever he wanted too and it would work. There are however apps that do require certain hardware to run, i.e. Nvidia Tegra or K1 games but there aren't many and you could usually find a version of the same software that would work. I would say he is 98% correct. I too have yet to come acrosss something that I wanted and couldn't side load, even though Google Play said it wasn't compatible.

    Relic:
    Google Play will not let you pay for or install an incompatible app unless you spoof your device to get around it. That would mean you probably knew that app wan't really compatible. And even you as knowledgeable as you are can't download an .apk from the Google Play store and sideload that app unless you have some secret trick that only you know about. If so please share.

    If you want to stray outside the official Google Play store and bypass the settings that prevent users from wasting time and money with apps not meant for their device of course you can, just as you can jailbreak your iOS device to install apps not intended for it.

    The fact you have to go out of your way to install incompatible apps makes him 100% incorrect, particularly in view of his comment that he's never seen a incompatibility notice on Google Play, plainly wrong if you actually try it.

    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't actually read his claim. If you had you would not have indicated he was correct.
    pmz wrote: »
    I have these little Android devices I use for product testing, and I noticed there is nothing to stop me from going to Google Play and buying (paying for) a major title game that absolutely positively will not run on my device, or probably 90% of all existing devices that run on something called "Android". My Android devices are so awful they usually crash when even attempting to load something from Google Play.
  • Reply 82 of 121
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Relic:

    Google Play will not let you pay for and install an incompatible app unless you spoof your device to get around it. That would mean you probably knew that app wan't really compatible. If you want to stray outside the official Google Play store and bypass the settings that prevent users from wasting time and money with apps not meant for their device of course you can, just as you can jailbreak your iOS device to install apps not intended for it.



    The fact you have to go out of your way to install incompatible apps makes him 100% incorrect, particularly in view of his comment that he's never seen a incompatibility notice on Google Play, plainly wrong if you actually try it.



    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't actually read his claim. If you had you would not have indicated he was correct.

    No, my bad, I just read your comment to him and the little of what you posted from him. I meant side loading outside of Google Play, for things like WhatsApp you have too, that is if you want to run it on a tablet. I don't have a problem doing this if I get the app directly from the developer, once it's installed though, Google Play will update it, which is weird. What he wrote was 1,000 percent completely wrong and I'm actually pissed at myself for not reading his whole comment. Sorry

  • Reply 83 of 121

    Another well written / detailed article from Great AI ... Thank You!

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    But, can someone tell me what the f**k google knows about software or development?!! These morons are only good at selling people's most personal data to advertisers to make a living!

     

    It was all a sudden accident google got in smartphone business ... BIG thanks to Apple! :smokey:

  • Reply 84 of 121
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,153member
    ascii wrote: »
    Nice choice of review for Goat Simulator, pure gold.

    This article is spot on, Android's problem is "Software squandering expensive hardware." What the article doesn't mention is that Apple is heading down the same road with their switch from C to Swift, which sacrifices runtime performance to make life easier at coding time. In other words it puts the needs of the coder ahead of the needs of the user.

    Ironically, as the comment from the Five Nights at Freddy's developer shows ("Please do not email me with reports of the game crashing [...] Crashing issues are the result of not enough memory"), these kind of higher level languages have not made life easier for Android devs overall. Yes, it was probably easier at coding time, but if you take in to account the whole lifecycle of the app, it seems to create more headaches later on.

    The statistic that 5 of the top 10 editor's choice picks are using Metal is great news, that is extremely fast adoption. This article is perfectly timed because this is the golden age of performance in iOS games: the time after Metal but before Swift.

    They're actually allowing more design-savvy developers to implement those designs by reducing technical clutter. It makes sense to promote languages which allow us to simplify higher level functions and provide lower-level performance as the Swift+Metal combo delivers.
    At the other developer conference Google admitted their platform's apps were running at half the speed they should have been!
  • Reply 85 of 121
    tenlytenly Posts: 707member
    If Apple tried to charge $399 for an AppleTV I would laugh my head off. At that price I'd rather buy a PS4 or Xbox One, as I get a Blu-ray player and other functionality when I do that. I'm not the only one that would think that way.

    You may not be the only one to think that way, but I'm sure most others would wait to see what features the $399 Apple TV includes before laughing and buying a PS4/XBox. You seem to think that you know what features the hypothetical high-priced Apple TV will have and that it will be inferior to the current consoles?
  • Reply 86 of 121
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    mnbob1 wrote: »
    Very interesting article. Samsung would like like us to believe differently. We've always known that developers preferred iOS over Android. With the 64bit processor (yes it's more than a marketing ploy) and Metal, game developers are going to abandon Android until they can catch up and stop the fragmentation. If Apple is able to introduce an Apple TV with a 64bit processor and Metal capable it could blow away the Xbox and playstation because price would be so low. Already you can AirPlay games to Apple TV.

    You mean, something like this:

    https://www.playstation.com/en-us/explore/playstationtv/

    Native play for Vita games and streaming gameplay from PS4 over wired or wireless network. Streaming from Hulu, Niconico... I would expect that Quickflix, Music Unlimited and other services available to Playstation consoles will work here as well.
  • Reply 87 of 121
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ascii View Post

     

    Nice choice of review for Goat Simulator, pure gold.

     

    This article is spot on, Android's problem is "Software squandering expensive hardware." What the article doesn't mention is that Apple is heading down the same road with their switch from C to Swift, which sacrifices runtime performance to make life easier at coding time. In other words it puts the needs of the coder ahead of the needs of the user.

     

    Ironically, as the comment from the Five Nights at Freddy's developer shows ("Please do not email me with reports of the game crashing [...] Crashing issues are the result of not enough memory"), these kind of higher level languages have not made life easier for Android devs overall. Yes, it was probably easier at coding time, but if you take in to account the whole lifecycle of the app, it seems to create more headaches later on.

     

    The statistic that 5 of the top 10 editor's choice picks are using Metal is great news, that is extremely fast adoption. This article is perfectly timed because this is the golden age of performance in iOS games: the time after Metal but before Swift.


     

    From what I've seem, swift looks a hell of a lot like C.

  • Reply 88 of 121
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,153member
    Has anyone seen frame rate comparisons for metal optimized games running on iOS 7 vs iOS 8 on A7 hardware. I guess this would be the fairest indicator of Metal performance enhancement.
  • Reply 89 of 121
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,223moderator
    mcdave wrote: »
    Has anyone seen frame rate comparisons for metal optimized games running on iOS 7 vs iOS 8 on A7 hardware. I guess this would be the fairest indicator of Metal performance enhancement.

    Developers are increasing quality too so FPS in a few cases won't improve much:


    [VIDEO]


    Say that you can draw 100 elements on-screen in 1/60th of a second, now they can draw up to 1000 elements in the same time so they add more things in like reflections, dynamic shadows, particles. One developer said FPS has improved though - the buggy Racing game - but they don't give FPS numbers:

    http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/iPhone/iOS+8/feature.asp?c=61620

    The game developer would have to test this. Unity has an article about improvements:

    http://blogs.unity3d.com/2014/07/03/metal-a-new-graphics-api-for-ios-8/

    It lowers the overhead between CPU and GPU:

    "What can I do with lower CPU overhead, again?
    Have better physics, AI or more complex gameplay logic. Put more objects on the screen. Or just enjoy lower battery usage. It’s all up to you!"
  • Reply 90 of 121
    I like this on amazon "Apple Iphone 6 4.7 Inch 16GB Unlocked (T-Mobile) Silver
    " click here http://goo.gl/sKC4zl
  • Reply 91 of 121
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    At the end of the day the A8's performance like the new Xbox or PS4 is waisted on the current crop of games that are available. I can run Modern Combat 5 at 1080p with over 30fps on a Kindle HDX, granted the Kindle has a Qualcomm 800 which isn't a slouch by any means but comes no where near the power of an A8. Amazingly I can also stream that game wirelessly over Miracast to a TV with same resolution at almost the same frame rate. I am now starting to see a little lag when playing games like MC5 or Nova 3 with my Nokia 1020 though but that only has a Snapdragon 4 and the games are still playable. Though I'm sure there are up and coming games that will be able to utilize the A8's power but by that time Apples A9 would have already been released. There are also a slue of new 64Bit chips heading to the market starting this month with Nvidias Denver chip that will give the A8 a run for its money. So as it's nice to claim you have the fastest phone on the market right now, there will always be something new or in the pipeline that will beat it until Apple releases it's next iteration of processors and then the fox and hound game starts all over again.

    There are very few people who utilize even 50% of their gadgets potential, so bragging about benchmarks is just a silly attempt to make Apple seem superior to everyone else. If they are or not who cares, except maybe those in forums like this, just use the device you have to the best of yours and its abilities and ignore arbitrary numbers, if a game feels fast enough then that's all that matters, a few FPS over 30 isn't going to give you a better game experience, just bragging rights.
  • Reply 92 of 121
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,827member
    relic wrote: »
    At the end of the day the A8's performance like the new Xbox or PS4 is waisted on the current crop of games that are available. I can run Modern Combat 5 at 1080p with over 30fps on a Kindle HDX, granted the Kindle has a Qualcomm 800 which isn't a slouch by any means but comes no where near the power of an A8. Amazingly I can also stream that game wirelessly over Miracast to a TV with same resolution at almost the same frame rate. I am now starting to see a little lag when playing games like MC5 or Nova 3 with my Nokia 1020 though but that only has a Snapdragon 4 and the games are still playable. Though I'm sure there are up and coming games that will be able to utilize the A8's power but by that time Apples A9 would have already been released. There are also a slue of new 64Bit chips heading to the market starting this month with Nvidias Denver chip that will give the A8 a run for its money. So as it's nice to claim you have the fastest phone on the market right now, there will always be something new or in the pipeline that will beat it until Apple releases it's next iteration of processors and then the fox and hound game starts all over again.

    There are very few people who utilize even 50% of their gadgets potential, so bragging about benchmarks is just a silly attempt to make Apple seem superior to everyone else. If they are or not who cares, except maybe those in forums like this, just use the device you have to the best of yours and its abilities and ignore arbitrary numbers, if a game feels fast enough then that's all that matters, a few FPS over 30 isn't going to give you a better game experience, just bragging rights.
    Hi Relic;

    People should keep an eye on ARM TechCon and the new chips rolling out. Some of these ARM 64 bit implementations are pretty impressive. It gives me hope of a lot of upside performance potential in Apples A8 implemented in an iPad.

    People need to understand that the current A8 is optimized for low power. We could see vastly better performance simply by allowing for more wattage.
  • Reply 93 of 121
    ascii wrote: »
    Those might be tests but they're not real world tests. When did you last buy an app that had 5 buttons, each of which ran a different list sort?

    You say they're replacing ObjC not C, but that doesn't really make sense. ObjC is C when you're not doing OO. And you shouldn't be doing OO everywhere, OO is great for GUI control libraries, collection classes, or anywhere there's a natural hierarchy in the business domain but elsewhere you'd just be using the tools for the sake of it. 

    The designers of Cocoa knew this. You can tell looking at the class library that they didn't make classes for absolutely everything (like you get in a language like Java), they made classes where OO really added something, and otherwise you can just get an off the shelf C library and link it in to your program (one example I used recently was the Bignum C library because ObjC didn't have a BigInteger class). C and ObjC are complementary and supposed to be chopped and changed in the same program. So they are replacing both, so it's fair to compare C performace with Swift performance.

    All of the apps I've developed were written in Obj-C. All the books I've seen in shops on Cocoa used Obj-C. Apple's examples are in Obj-C. Most web sites giving code examples and tutorials for Apple kit use Obj-C.

    Where, outside some maths libraries and their ilk, are you looking to find all this C coding that Swift is superseding? As far as I can see, and almost everything I've read online, Swift will be taking the place of Obj-C for most Apple developers.
  • Reply 94 of 121
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,748member
    Marvin wrote: »


    Say that you can draw 100 elements on-screen in 1/60th of a second, now they can draw up to 1000 elements in the same time so they add more things in like reflections, dynamic shadows, particles. One developer said FPS has improved though - the buggy Racing game - but they don't give FPS numbers:

    http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/iPhone/iOS+8/feature.asp?c=61620

    The game developer would have to test this. Unity has an article about improvements:

    http://blogs.unity3d.com/2014/07/03/metal-a-new-graphics-api-for-ios-8/

    It lowers the overhead between CPU and GPU:

    "What can I do with lower CPU overhead, again?
    Have better physics, AI or more complex gameplay logic. Put more objects on the screen. Or just enjoy lower battery usage. It’s all up to you!"

    Comparing the gaming look between the basically stock Android Kit Kat Moto X (2014) and iPhone 6 w/iOS8, which should be fair, it's clear the iPhone looks a bit smoother (or as the reviewer says "snappier) tho the Moto isn't too shabby. Maybe most folks wouldn't notice a difference unless side-by-side.

    Whether Android L will deliver any improvements doesn't really matter yet since it isn't available. You can see the stock Android/ iOS side-by-side comparison here about three minutes in.

    [VIDEO]
  • Reply 95 of 121
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    Comparing the gaming look between the basically stock Android Kit Kat Moto X (2014) and iPhone 6 w/iOS8, which should be fair, it's clear the iPhone looks a bit smoother (or as the reviewer says "snappier) tho the Moto isn't too shabby. Maybe most folks wouldn't notice a difference unless side-by-side.



    Whether Android L will deliver any improvements doesn't really matter yet since it isn't available. You can see the stock Android/ iOS side-by-side comparison here about three minutes in.



    We won't have to wait Long, a couple of weeks maybe before Google releases Android 5 along with the Nexus 8 tablet that will contain the new Nvidia Denver 64Bit K1 CPU, 4GB of RAM with a 64bit Memory comptroller instead of 2X 32bit, 32GB and 64GB models, 2K Display with 4K output and best of all built by HTC. I'm not a very big fan of Asus tablets, which included the Nexus 7 except maybe their Transformer 710T.

     

    I'm also not really excited about the release of Android 5 as I don't use Android much anymore except for fiddling around with, though I have to admit my Nexus 5 has seen amazing improvements across the board with the "L" Preview, especially in areas like UI, battery and graphic performance. I'm interested in Nvidia's Denver CPU and the Nexus 8 that will contain it, why, no, not because I want to see some arbitrary benchmark tests that show that it might or might not be faster then Apples A8, who cares, it's because finally there is an open ARM tablet platform that will be able to run 64bit Linux like Arch and Chrome OS with desktop like speeds.

     

    See, one of my biggest wants is to have a tablet, probably using Android 5 in the end, depending on how good Ubuntu Touch gets while I'm on the go, then when I'm sitting at my desk I can simply plug it into a dock, reboot into the Linux of my choice because setting up a dual or even a triple boot is child's play with a Nexus device, then simply bring up a full Linux desktop experience to do my work on, including using programs like Netbeans under Java, then when it's time to relax I can simply connect the Nexus 8 to our 4K TV using the built in HDMI that supports the resolution with ease, while using Chrome OS 64Bit as my entertainment system. It's a pipe dream of mine that hopefully just might work this time of around. I'm a tinkerer and a tech lover so I absolutely dig things like this. Then hopefully next year sometime there will also be a phone with the new Qualcomm 820 chip that will also have 4GB of memory and an open bootloader to replace my 8" Nexus with, 5.5" maybe even 6" would be perfect, who knows it might even have a 4K display. We are going to see lots of great things from the would of ARM come to perdition in 2015, can't wait.

  • Reply 96 of 121
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KiltedGreen View Post



    Where, outside some maths libraries and their ilk, are you looking to find all this C coding that Swift is superseding? As far as I can see, and almost everything I've read online, Swift will be taking the place of Obj-C for most Apple developers.

     

    I can't just think of a list of them off the top of my head. What happens is, in the the context of doing a job, you Google for a solution and 9 times out of 10 you find an open source solution written in C and against Unix. Because like it or loathe it, this is still the Lingua Franca of programming. And if you're not working in a language where you can easily link to that code, you're reinventing the wheel unneccesarily, which is supposed to be a big no-no in computer science. 

     

    In that sense (and probably accidentally) ObjC is unusually well suited to the modern "Google before you code," world. Not only can you link to code you find by Google, you can paste it right in! And language designers who, in this Internet age, start from scratch with custom syntax and unlinkability to C are living in the past.

  • Reply 97 of 121
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    ascii wrote: »
    I can't just think of a list of them off the top of my head. What happens is, in the the context of doing a job, you Google for a solution and 9 times out of 10 you find an open source solution written in C and against Unix. Because like it or loathe it, this is still the Lingua Franca of programming. And if you're not working in a language where you can easily link to that code, you're reinventing the wheel unneccesarily, which is supposed to be a big no-no in computer science. 

    In that sense (and probably accidentally) ObjC is unusually well suited to the modern "Google before you code," world. Not only can you link to code you find by Google, you can paste it right in! And language designers who, in this Internet age, start from scratch with custom syntax and unlinkability to C are living in the past.

    I'm a huge fan of using other people's code in my one, why reinvent the wheel I say, that's why I'm still a huge supporter of open standards, not because they offer any significant performance or any other advantages, it's because of the amount of code that is available to reuse. Big example is PHP content managers, I havn't really found one that I liked, so I stripped out parts of about 5 different ones to make my one. I love to code, fun, fun, fun.
  • Reply 98 of 121

    I don’t recall any of that. What you don’t seem to be comprehending here at all is that no one who doesn’t want 2GB of RAM doesn’t want it for reasons of not wanting more RAM. We’re concerned with battery life. If Apple can put 2 GB of RAM in without sacrificing battery, then it’ll be a great idea.

    For a lot of the reasons already said above... regarding apps...

    Are app makers clamouring for more and more ram and somehow Same-song steps up to the plate?? Or are they just throwing out higher specs to keep the fandroid community thinking they are tops?

    Also.. Does anyone know if or which apps in the App Store are already swift made? Curious
  • Reply 99 of 121
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gijoeinla View Post





    Also.. Does anyone know if or which apps in the App Store are already swift made? Curious

     

    Apple said that their WWDC app was written using Swift.

  • Reply 100 of 121
    gijoeinla wrote: »

    I don’t recall any of that. What you don’t seem to be comprehending here at all is that no one who doesn’t want 2GB of RAM doesn’t want it for reasons of not wanting more RAM. We’re concerned with battery life. If Apple can put 2 GB of RAM in without sacrificing battery, then it’ll be a great idea.

    For a lot of the reasons already said above... regarding apps...

    Are app makers clamouring for more and more ram and somehow Same-song steps up to the plate?? Or are they just throwing out higher specs to keep the fandroid community thinking they are tops?

    Also.. Does anyone know if or which apps in the App Store are already swift made? Curious

    Samsung may be including more RAM because of inefficiencies in the OS. Apple has, from the start, worked hard to keep the iDevices lean and mean. I remember when computers needed only MBs of RAM, then RAM became cheap and programs became bloated until today it's a RAM & resource-hungry monster.
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