This condescending comment is exactly the same other companies used to make when talking about the "smaller", "nimbler" Apple of before - "we are the most valuable company", "we know our market", blablabla.
I was buying Apple computers when everyone and their dog proclaimed the company dead...so careful about your hubris above; pride comes before the fall after all.
Again with the "I was buying Apple computers since Steve Wozniak was assembling them in Job's garage" crap? Talk about condescending. It doesn't give you any more credibility.
And your point is what, that successful company is automatically doomed to fall just because they've been so wildly successful? Don't confuse a company that's legitimately successful with one that reached its success via shady means thus which it will ultimately fall. If anything it gives Apple a better shot of continuing success since they have so much experience at it, much more so that the "smaller", "nimbler" ones, Apple itself included. Pride isn't always a bad thing.
In any case, Apple is most probably NOT the first in line - tax authorities AND workers would be priority in case of liquidation of assets.\
You probably shouldn't practice law in the U.S.
Oh, you don't, thank you very much.
There's a current dustup in Stockton, CA where the cities workers could lose portions of their pensions if/when Stockton goes bankrupt, and for the record, they aren't covered by Social Security.
And let's not even talk about quality of service issues or the ridiculous, unacceptably botched streaming of the last event...this alone should have raised concerns in sane Apple-loving people.
Seriously!!! Again with the streaming crap? Cuz, you couldn't wait a couple of hours for the video to be posted. Everyone and their grandma forgot about this streaming nonsense, how anyone could still whine about that is beyond me. Apple didn't even use to provide live streaming to most of their events, you had to read a transcript and see pictures on blog sites to see what was happening. What a horrible streaming experience, 0.01 frames per second! I wonder what you's say if Apple stops doing live streaming again, probably "The live streaming doesn't work at all!!! What an outrage!!!"
Stop making excuses. Tim Cook messed up, big time.
You don't just give HALF A BILLION to a company and they end up bankrupt 12 months later. That is NOT business as usual.
Tim Cook messed up. He gave this BS company HALF A BILLION before they even provided Apple a good prototype product.
Do you really think that Apple hasn't specific clauses in its contracts covering default, or inability to perform? Of course they do, and there are clauses that let Apple take management control if necessary. Sure its bankruptcy, but its probably less about failure and more about cash flow, and as others have pointed out, it may not even have anything to do with the sapphire operation.
i have been a strong supporter of Tim Cook. This is the first time i've said anything negative about him
i supported his increasing dividends
i supported the buyback
i supported the 5C
i supported the Beats acquisiton
i supported the Watch
i supported 6+
this is literaly the first time in over 12 months that i said anything bad about Mr Cook. No one is right 100% of the time. Cook messed up this time.
Color me unimpressed. You seem to think that your posting history gives your current criticism more legitimacy, when in fact it's the other way around. This one absurd criticism invalidates everything positive you've ever said about Apple. Sorry, nice try though!
...maybe they sold Apple one being able to do a iphone size display...
No one is ever going to use artificial sapphire as a covering glass for a phone, it was never going to happen, it never will happen. It makes not a jot of sense.
The iPhone6 suppose to have sapphire screen. How many sales were lost because of that?
The AppleWatch suppose to come out this year. How many sales were lost because of that?
You bet this GTAT deal cost hundreds of millions in adminstrative costs/lawyer costs, ect and are sure to cost more as this is dragged through bankruptucy court.
Even just the stock price. Before news came out the stock was up almost a $1. Now its flat. Apple is being dragged in the mud of GTAT. To be associate with such a scam company is shameful.
...maybe they sold Apple one being able to do a iphone size display...
No one is ever going to use artificial sapphire as a covering glass for a phone, it was never going to happen, it never will happen. It makes not a jot of sense.
Thank you! As I've repeated ad nauseam, sharp jagged grit can scratch polished, flat surfaces which they are technically softer than. Now corundum ("sapphire") is 9 on the Mohs scale, so the quartz in the sand in your pocket at 7, probably won't scratch it, but there could be some garnet in that sand, which at 8, might. Even if corundum is slightly less scratchable, its brittleness and cost make the whole idea ridiculous.
What the h...! A cash infusion of over half a billion from a successful tech firm less than a year ago and now filing for bankruptcy! Did Apple know what they were getting into when they invested in this company? Really...
Yes, Apple did know. The money Apple provided to GTAT was in the form of a loan against future deliveries of sapphire. The contract specifies that GTAT must repay the loan regardless of whether Apple purchases sapphire from GTAT. And the money was used to purchase sapphire furnaces and other equipment to be installed at an AZ facility that is owned by Apple. Possession being 9/10ths of the law, I'd say that Apple has a virtual, if not actual lien on those sapphire furnaces. And it's come to light that, based upon nonfulfillment of contract terms, GTAT did not receive its last payment of $139 million on the $578 million total, and that Apple may have demanded and received early repayment of up to $250 million of the $440 million it did hand over to GTAT. That would put Apple out about $190 million in exchange for sapphire furnaces and manufacturing equipment potentially worth much more than that. You can pretty much default to 'Apple knows what it's doing' whenever you have doubts on the matter.
Out of curiosity shouldn't this have been a material disclosure from Apple to the SEC if they were aware of the financial issue? You know much more about that subject than I would. If Apple did NOT know until the news officially broke then it would seem someone at Apple was derelict in their fiduciary duties? Just curious how that works.
Only if the situation is material to Apple. It's not; Apple can get the sapphire it needs from other sources.
Sorry but HALF A BILLION is not fine. When you add in opportunity cost this will probably close to ONE BILLION.
When your CEO gives a company ONE BILLION DOLLARS and they go bankrupt less than 12 months later it falls on the CEO.
Sorry, TIM COOK fuked up. Read my post history. I've been a strong supporter of Cook. But facts are facts. And MR COOK just got duped out of HALF BILLION.
You're going to be so embarrassed reading back your words when you realize how Apple structured the deal specifically to avoid being ripped off. Just wait, the facts some of the rest of us are aware of will make their way to your screen. When you get to post #218, if no other poster clued you in sooner.
$570M may not seem much for a company with $150B in cash but they can't just throw money away.
Did Apple force GTAT into bankruptcy?
Will they get their $570M back?
As an Apple shareholder I deserve answers.
Some of you are acting like $570M is nothing. So if Apple gave $570M to Tim Cooks brother you would be okay with that? ITs not just the amount it the principle.
Here's just one of your problems. You haven't done even the most basic research that would have informed you that Apple has not provided the last $139 million of the agreed $578 million. So it's not and has never been $570 million. Up to now, it's been $439 million. There's more you got wrong, but you get the idea; you need to begin with the facts before you judge.
"I would expect that Apple won't let this be a major issue for anyone concerned."
How about those of us that owned GT Advanced Technologies? Is Apple going to reimburse me for the $27,000 loss I took on GTAT?
Your comment was not well thought out.
Your loss on GTAT does not qualify you under the definition of 'anyone concerned.' Had you actually been concerned, about your money, you would not have had it invested in a company whose main line of business two years ago (solar manufacturing equipment) completely and utterly collapsed with the ending of subsidies in the U.S. and some other countries (like Spain). The Apple sapphire business was GTAT's Hail Mary. You did know all this, didn't you? If not, if you didn't do your own research, which would have been kicked into high gear with a simple review of the company's income statement page on Yahoo Finance (clearly shows the total collapse of the company's revenues from 2011 and 2012 compared to 2013 when the solar business collapsed), then you failed to be sufficiently concerned about how your money is invested. And if you are apparently not concerned enough about your own money, why should anyone else be?
Hey @brlawer and @sog53 (and others who base their investment decisions on CEO moves) -- Meg Whitman is going to have two great HP companies in which to invest ... RSN ...
"Without significant sapphire revenue from Apple, we would still be required to repay in cash (on a quarterly basis) significant amounts of the Prepayment Amount beginning in 2015, which would limit our ability to invest in or operate other portions of our business, including our equipment operations, or to repay indebtedness at the time of maturity of such indebtedness. In addition, these repayments may exhaust all of our cash and, if we are unable to make a payment when due (or fail to meet our supply obligations), we will be in default and Apple will have the right to acquire control and possession of the ASF systems and/or our subsidiary (GT Advanced Equipment Holding LLC) that owns these systems (and to be paid in cash for any deficiency). The prepayment installments from Apple may also be cancelled prior to payment, or repayment accelerated, under certain circumstances, including if the ASF systems do not generate sapphire material to specification prior to an agreed upon date or we are unable to comply with certain financial requirements." From below listed link.
Recommend opening their 10-K filing in iBooks, then do a search for apple, then jump to each new page entry and read. Everything seems like a very good deal for apple, and potential for gtat if things worked out. Link is below.
Comments
This condescending comment is exactly the same other companies used to make when talking about the "smaller", "nimbler" Apple of before - "we are the most valuable company", "we know our market", blablabla.
I was buying Apple computers when everyone and their dog proclaimed the company dead...so careful about your hubris above; pride comes before the fall after all.
Again with the "I was buying Apple computers since Steve Wozniak was assembling them in Job's garage" crap? Talk about condescending. It doesn't give you any more credibility.
And your point is what, that successful company is automatically doomed to fall just because they've been so wildly successful? Don't confuse a company that's legitimately successful with one that reached its success via shady means thus which it will ultimately fall. If anything it gives Apple a better shot of continuing success since they have so much experience at it, much more so that the "smaller", "nimbler" ones, Apple itself included. Pride isn't always a bad thing.
In any case, Apple is most probably NOT the first in line - tax authorities AND workers would be priority in case of liquidation of assets.\
You probably shouldn't practice law in the U.S.
Oh, you don't, thank you very much.
There's a current dustup in Stockton, CA where the cities workers could lose portions of their pensions if/when Stockton goes bankrupt, and for the record, they aren't covered by Social Security.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-stockton-bankruptcy-20141002-story.html
I'm guessing that if you don't understand U.S. Law, you surely have no clue about Tim Cook's competence as CEO.
And let's not even talk about quality of service issues or the ridiculous, unacceptably botched streaming of the last event...this alone should have raised concerns in sane Apple-loving people.
Seriously!!! Again with the streaming crap? Cuz, you couldn't wait a couple of hours for the video to be posted. Everyone and their grandma forgot about this streaming nonsense, how anyone could still whine about that is beyond me. Apple didn't even use to provide live streaming to most of their events, you had to read a transcript and see pictures on blog sites to see what was happening. What a horrible streaming experience, 0.01 frames per second! I wonder what you's say if Apple stops doing live streaming again, probably "The live streaming doesn't work at all!!! What an outrage!!!"
Stop making excuses. Tim Cook messed up, big time.
You don't just give HALF A BILLION to a company and they end up bankrupt 12 months later. That is NOT business as usual.
Tim Cook messed up. He gave this BS company HALF A BILLION before they even provided Apple a good prototype product.
Do you really think that Apple hasn't specific clauses in its contracts covering default, or inability to perform? Of course they do, and there are clauses that let Apple take management control if necessary. Sure its bankruptcy, but its probably less about failure and more about cash flow, and as others have pointed out, it may not even have anything to do with the sapphire operation.
you have not read my post history.
i have been a strong supporter of Tim Cook. This is the first time i've said anything negative about him
i supported his increasing dividends
i supported the buyback
i supported the 5C
i supported the Beats acquisiton
i supported the Watch
i supported 6+
this is literaly the first time in over 12 months that i said anything bad about Mr Cook. No one is right 100% of the time. Cook messed up this time.
Color me unimpressed. You seem to think that your posting history gives your current criticism more legitimacy, when in fact it's the other way around. This one absurd criticism invalidates everything positive you've ever said about Apple. Sorry, nice try though!
...maybe they sold Apple one being able to do a iphone size display...
No one is ever going to use artificial sapphire as a covering glass for a phone, it was never going to happen, it never will happen. It makes not a jot of sense.
Not sure how this affects Apple's plan to use sapphire beyond iWatch in near future...
I would estimate the answer to be in the ball park of somewhere beteeen 'zero' and 'not at all'.
"I would expect that Apple won't let this be a major issue for anyone concerned."
How about those of us that owned GT Advanced Technologies? Is Apple going to reimburse me for the $27,000 loss I took on GTAT?
Your comment was not well thought out.
its called opportunity cost.
The iPhone6 suppose to have sapphire screen. How many sales were lost because of that?
The AppleWatch suppose to come out this year. How many sales were lost because of that?
You bet this GTAT deal cost hundreds of millions in adminstrative costs/lawyer costs, ect and are sure to cost more as this is dragged through bankruptucy court.
Even just the stock price. Before news came out the stock was up almost a $1. Now its flat. Apple is being dragged in the mud of GTAT. To be associate with such a scam company is shameful.
Just money that wasn't being used.
Anyone who bets on the Apple supply chain should know it's a risky investment. I certainly would never do it.
Thank you! As I've repeated ad nauseam, sharp jagged grit can scratch polished, flat surfaces which they are technically softer than. Now corundum ("sapphire") is 9 on the Mohs scale, so the quartz in the sand in your pocket at 7, probably won't scratch it, but there could be some garnet in that sand, which at 8, might. Even if corundum is slightly less scratchable, its brittleness and cost make the whole idea ridiculous.
What the h...! A cash infusion of over half a billion from a successful tech firm less than a year ago and now filing for bankruptcy! Did Apple know what they were getting into when they invested in this company? Really...
Yes, Apple did know. The money Apple provided to GTAT was in the form of a loan against future deliveries of sapphire. The contract specifies that GTAT must repay the loan regardless of whether Apple purchases sapphire from GTAT. And the money was used to purchase sapphire furnaces and other equipment to be installed at an AZ facility that is owned by Apple. Possession being 9/10ths of the law, I'd say that Apple has a virtual, if not actual lien on those sapphire furnaces. And it's come to light that, based upon nonfulfillment of contract terms, GTAT did not receive its last payment of $139 million on the $578 million total, and that Apple may have demanded and received early repayment of up to $250 million of the $440 million it did hand over to GTAT. That would put Apple out about $190 million in exchange for sapphire furnaces and manufacturing equipment potentially worth much more than that. You can pretty much default to 'Apple knows what it's doing' whenever you have doubts on the matter.
Out of curiosity shouldn't this have been a material disclosure from Apple to the SEC if they were aware of the financial issue? You know much more about that subject than I would. If Apple did NOT know until the news officially broke then it would seem someone at Apple was derelict in their fiduciary duties? Just curious how that works.
Only if the situation is material to Apple. It's not; Apple can get the sapphire it needs from other sources.
Sorry but HALF A BILLION is not fine. When you add in opportunity cost this will probably close to ONE BILLION.
When your CEO gives a company ONE BILLION DOLLARS and they go bankrupt less than 12 months later it falls on the CEO.
Sorry, TIM COOK fuked up. Read my post history. I've been a strong supporter of Cook. But facts are facts. And MR COOK just got duped out of HALF BILLION.
You're going to be so embarrassed reading back your words when you realize how Apple structured the deal specifically to avoid being ripped off. Just wait, the facts some of the rest of us are aware of will make their way to your screen. When you get to post #218, if no other poster clued you in sooner.
and everyone at Corning is having a good laugh right now
Apple needs to come clean on this.
$570M may not seem much for a company with $150B in cash but they can't just throw money away.
Did Apple force GTAT into bankruptcy?
Will they get their $570M back?
As an Apple shareholder I deserve answers.
Some of you are acting like $570M is nothing. So if Apple gave $570M to Tim Cooks brother you would be okay with that? ITs not just the amount it the principle.
Here's just one of your problems. You haven't done even the most basic research that would have informed you that Apple has not provided the last $139 million of the agreed $578 million. So it's not and has never been $570 million. Up to now, it's been $439 million. There's more you got wrong, but you get the idea; you need to begin with the facts before you judge.
Buy a treasury bond the next time.
"I would expect that Apple won't let this be a major issue for anyone concerned."
How about those of us that owned GT Advanced Technologies? Is Apple going to reimburse me for the $27,000 loss I took on GTAT?
Your comment was not well thought out.
Your loss on GTAT does not qualify you under the definition of 'anyone concerned.' Had you actually been concerned, about your money, you would not have had it invested in a company whose main line of business two years ago (solar manufacturing equipment) completely and utterly collapsed with the ending of subsidies in the U.S. and some other countries (like Spain). The Apple sapphire business was GTAT's Hail Mary. You did know all this, didn't you? If not, if you didn't do your own research, which would have been kicked into high gear with a simple review of the company's income statement page on Yahoo Finance (clearly shows the total collapse of the company's revenues from 2011 and 2012 compared to 2013 when the solar business collapsed), then you failed to be sufficiently concerned about how your money is invested. And if you are apparently not concerned enough about your own money, why should anyone else be?
Recommend opening their 10-K filing in iBooks, then do a search for apple, then jump to each new page entry and read. Everything seems like a very good deal for apple, and potential for gtat if things worked out. Link is below.
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/AMDA-1AHIQM/3525802766x0xS1047469-14-2123/1394954/filing.pdf
Seems Apple could soon own the equipment and some IP.