The guy is about making money and exploiting differentials between market prices and underlying values. He has quite a record of success in doing so. Like the Godfather said, "He always makes money for his partners."
Very succinct. I might add that although typical mom and pop Apple investors might be "up" right now, they are not "his partners."
Wrong. The bankruptcy judge can void any agreement by Apple if they see fit. There is no contigency that can account for Chapter 11 completely.
If Apple has a legal agreement in good standing that enables their claims to take precedence over those of any other investors, then Apple will be first in line to take property or other items of value, especially since they poured nearly half a billion into the plant and equipment.
I have no doubt AAPL is worth more than its current value. Potentially much more.
I also have no doubt that if AAPL ever hit Icahn's magical $203 valuation, he'd immediately sell, short the stock, tell the world AAPL is highly overvalued, profit on the drop, then buy a bunch more at the lower valuation.
There were lots of people who criticized Carl back when he started his Apple activist investor endeavor. Most people who did that were not Apple investors themselves, but there were plenty of Apple investors who were critical of Carl. It does not seem likely to me that the stock would be anywhere near as high as it is today, were it not for Carl. The P/E ratio for Apple stock has long been very much lower than for most other companies doing similar business. Carl came along and said that the reasoning that investors were using, to value Apple stock so low, was not good reasoning, and that it ought to be much high. He was right. Stock prices are strongly influenced by irrational reasoning, and by people who ignore the intrinsic value of a stock in favor of "technical analysis", where they believe that the patterns that they see in the history of the stock's price foretell its future. When they get it right, it is mainly because of the effect known as the self-fulfilling prophesy. Carl has not always been the best friend of the smaller investor, but in the case of Apple, which he could never attempt to take over owing to the size, he has been the small stock owners best friend. In fact, from the small investors' perspectve, Carl is the best friend that Apple stock ever had. I have strong appreciation for him, and I hope he keeps it up. Apple stock is still greatly underpriced, especially in consideration of what the numbers are probably going to be like over the next several quarters, and Apple still is sitting on a horrific pile of cash that they don't know what to do with. The repatriation business remains a factor, but it should not prevent Apple from buying more of its own shares and returning capital to shareholders.
Apple's stock was going up on Apple's own buybacks, not based on what Icahn was saying. Would you mortgage your house or sell all of your other investments right now to buy more Apple stock? Because that's exactly what Icahn is wanting Apple to do: they'd either have to take out another loan to buy back more stock (your mortgage equivalent), or repatriate existing cash from overseas, at a tax rate of 25% percent (equivalent to selling all of your stock gainers and paying capital gains tax, but worse).
What Icahn wants is to run up the stock so he can SELL it. Do you seriously believe he's going to hold onto it when it hits his target price? No, he wants to sell it at $198 to some schmucks who think that because *he* says it's worth $203, they'll buy it at his "mighty-hard-to-let-go-of-it-below-my-target" price of $198. Carl has no interest in any other shareholders than himself. He wants to artificially balloon the price beyond what it should reasonably be. And we know how well that turned out for the real estate market in the mid 2000s when housing prices were unrealistically high. I don't want Apple to become a "popped balloon" stock. That will kill its position as a desirable stock forever. The market should dictate Apple's price, not Icahn's greed.
Wrong. The bankruptcy judge can void any agreement by Apple if they see fit. There is no contigency that can account for Chapter 11 completely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
Nope. Not if the judge things the Apple arrangement was unfair.
Also remember GTAT sold hundreds of millions in Bonds before the Apple deal.
NOTHING is guaranteed in Bankruptcy. NOTHING.
That's why you don't make deals with companies close to Bankruptcy. Tim Cook should have know this
You need to get over blaming Tim on the assumption that Apple did no due diligence. In fact just a little while ago on a newer thread, you were speaking of fraud by GTAT.
Correlation is not causation, but maybe if Icahn talks it up day after, he could reach that $200 valuation without Apple intervention.
Think of it as a telethon.
Since Carl "knows" AAPL is worth more than $200 why doesn't HE buy billions more of their stock? Clearly he's not willing to bet more of his own money on this, therefore he's just pumping. Always beware free financial advice. It's worth exactly what it costs.
If Icahn can bring Apple down, he can easily earn 30-40 billions or even more. What's more important, he will do something that no one would think is possible. He will be legend - the man who took Apple down to dirt.
Everything he's done so far goes point by point by textbook "What is hostile takeover and how to perform it". Only time he's done something wrong was trying to oust Cook before right time. He understood his mistake and right now it's going as planned. I just hope that Lenovo outbids Samsung with iPhone. iPhone Galaxy would be horrible.
Comments
The guy is about making money and exploiting differentials between market prices and underlying values. He has quite a record of success in doing so. Like the Godfather said, "He always makes money for his partners."
Very succinct. I might add that although typical mom and pop Apple investors might be "up" right now, they are not "his partners."
If Apple has a legal agreement in good standing that enables their claims to take precedence over those of any other investors, then Apple will be first in line to take property or other items of value, especially since they poured nearly half a billion into the plant and equipment.
Ichan is $5,000,000,000 LONG in apple shares.
Yeah, I can’t possibly imagine a situation in which someone would want to temporarily lower the price of a stock so that he could buy more¡
I have no doubt AAPL is worth more than its current value. Potentially much more.
I also have no doubt that if AAPL ever hit Icahn's magical $203 valuation, he'd immediately sell, short the stock, tell the world AAPL is highly overvalued, profit on the drop, then buy a bunch more at the lower valuation.
I hate this Wall Street crap.
There were lots of people who criticized Carl back when he started his Apple activist investor endeavor. Most people who did that were not Apple investors themselves, but there were plenty of Apple investors who were critical of Carl. It does not seem likely to me that the stock would be anywhere near as high as it is today, were it not for Carl. The P/E ratio for Apple stock has long been very much lower than for most other companies doing similar business. Carl came along and said that the reasoning that investors were using, to value Apple stock so low, was not good reasoning, and that it ought to be much high. He was right. Stock prices are strongly influenced by irrational reasoning, and by people who ignore the intrinsic value of a stock in favor of "technical analysis", where they believe that the patterns that they see in the history of the stock's price foretell its future. When they get it right, it is mainly because of the effect known as the self-fulfilling prophesy. Carl has not always been the best friend of the smaller investor, but in the case of Apple, which he could never attempt to take over owing to the size, he has been the small stock owners best friend. In fact, from the small investors' perspectve, Carl is the best friend that Apple stock ever had. I have strong appreciation for him, and I hope he keeps it up. Apple stock is still greatly underpriced, especially in consideration of what the numbers are probably going to be like over the next several quarters, and Apple still is sitting on a horrific pile of cash that they don't know what to do with. The repatriation business remains a factor, but it should not prevent Apple from buying more of its own shares and returning capital to shareholders.
Apple's stock was going up on Apple's own buybacks, not based on what Icahn was saying. Would you mortgage your house or sell all of your other investments right now to buy more Apple stock? Because that's exactly what Icahn is wanting Apple to do: they'd either have to take out another loan to buy back more stock (your mortgage equivalent), or repatriate existing cash from overseas, at a tax rate of 25% percent (equivalent to selling all of your stock gainers and paying capital gains tax, but worse).
What Icahn wants is to run up the stock so he can SELL it. Do you seriously believe he's going to hold onto it when it hits his target price? No, he wants to sell it at $198 to some schmucks who think that because *he* says it's worth $203, they'll buy it at his "mighty-hard-to-let-go-of-it-below-my-target" price of $198. Carl has no interest in any other shareholders than himself. He wants to artificially balloon the price beyond what it should reasonably be. And we know how well that turned out for the real estate market in the mid 2000s when housing prices were unrealistically high. I don't want Apple to become a "popped balloon" stock. That will kill its position as a desirable stock forever. The market should dictate Apple's price, not Icahn's greed.
Who is "Ichan"?
Wrong. The bankruptcy judge can void any agreement by Apple if they see fit. There is no contigency that can account for Chapter 11 completely.
Nope. Not if the judge things the Apple arrangement was unfair.
Also remember GTAT sold hundreds of millions in Bonds before the Apple deal.
NOTHING is guaranteed in Bankruptcy. NOTHING.
That's why you don't make deals with companies close to Bankruptcy. Tim Cook should have know this
You need to get over blaming Tim on the assumption that Apple did no due diligence. In fact just a little while ago on a newer thread, you were speaking of fraud by GTAT.
Which is it?
Apple's stock is up about 3.5% since Ichan talked about this letter to Tim Cook yesterday.......
just roll with it.
You guys who hate on Ichan are ridiculous.
Correlation is not causation, but maybe if Icahn talks it up day after day, he could reach that $200 valuation without Apple intervention.
Think of it as a telethon.
Since Carl "knows" AAPL is worth more than $200 why doesn't HE buy billions more of their stock? Clearly he's not willing to bet more of his own money on this, therefore he's just pumping. Always beware free financial advice. It's worth exactly what it costs.
Icahn should be sending letters to Obama and the Congress about a tax cut on repatriating overseas profit. That would actually speed this along.
The administration is waiting to see what their pals at Goldman Sachs wants.
Ichan said Apple should increase the buyback last year when the shares were $60-$70. He was right. The shares are now $100+
They were buying back when the shares were $60. They're also buying back now. It's called dollar-cost-averaging. Look it up.
Apple's stock is up about 3.5% since Ichan talked about this letter to Tim Cook yesterday.......
just roll with it.
You guys who hate on Ichan are ridiculous.
No. it's up because Apple announced another event.
Icahn's letter seems like helpful PR to me. Just trying to herd the speculators a bit.
Can people please ignore this insufferable [you-know-who-I'm-talking about].
Please, people, please?
Oh sweet naive ...
If Icahn can bring Apple down, he can easily earn 30-40 billions or even more. What's more important, he will do something that no one would think is possible. He will be legend - the man who took Apple down to dirt.
Everything he's done so far goes point by point by textbook "What is hostile takeover and how to perform it". Only time he's done something wrong was trying to oust Cook before right time. He understood his mistake and right now it's going as planned. I just hope that Lenovo outbids Samsung with iPhone. iPhone Galaxy would be horrible.
Wow, 550!
/s
Can people please ignore this insufferable [you-know-who-I'm-talking about].
Please, people, please?
Ok. However I reserve the right to "I told you so" (not you, of course) when we eventually learn what actually happened though. Fair enough?