Anyone notice that the guy in this video is the same one that did Coin's Kickstarter video? Makes me wonder if Final and Coin come from the same folks.
If each card for each retailer is still tied to my bank account, how does that help? So I only need to cancel one card number when the next Target/Home Depot/etc. get hacked? My bank account would still be cleaned out.
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Originally Posted by MADSCI3NCE
Anyone notice that the guy in this video is the same one that did Coin's Kickstarter video? Makes me wonder if Final and Coin come from the same folks.
Or same talent agency? Maybe they saw him on the Coin Kickstarter and sought him out?
I was aware of the restrictions on digit fields as mentioned by you and a few others, and I think I had heard of problems in the EU, as you mentioned. Which is why I raised the issue of running out of numbers. Just like with SSNs and Phone No's. If I'd actually thought all 16 digits were available, as SolipsismX assumed, then I wouldn't have made the statement.
But the security number on the back already raises the non-identifier digits by three, and there's no reason that number couldn't be four or more digits long too, so, along with all the other qualifiers mentioned, whatever the top number is, without changes to the front of the card it's flexible, and we're nowhere near needing to worry about it.
But the security number on the back already raises the non-identifier digits by three, and there's no reason that number couldn't be four or more digits long too, so, along with all the other qualifiers mentioned, whatever the top number is, without changes to the front of the card it's flexible, and we're nowhere near needing to worry about it.
To that point, the card security code for Amex is already at 4 digits.
To that point, the card security code for Amex is already at 4 digits.
Unlike VISA and Mastercard, Amex account numbers are only fifteen digits (typically grouped 4-6-5 on the physical card), not sixteen. Thus, all modern credit cards have nineteen digits when including the CVV.
As I stated, the unique value can be increased as needed (and has increased over the decades) so there is no reason to think it can't increase yet again. They could even use the same number of characters but move to a hex value if they wanted to keep the count down. This is not an insurmountable issue in today's digital age.
And there's no reason even to limit it to hex. Using 34 alpha numeric characters (eliminating I and O as too similar to one and zero), a 10 digit identifier would have over 2 quadrillion (2 x 1015) unique values. That's roughly 300,000 for each person currently on the planet. Add four more for the issuer and card typle, one or two for check digits, and you're back to the current 16 digits, even not counting the CVV code.
You have a 16 digit number, the CVV, an expiration date, and this can be checked against a name and address, and even have a unique PIN added as is the case with ?Pay. At 16 digits for the typical card you do have 10,000,000,000,000,000 standard options which is about 1,428,571 unique numbers per every man, woman and child on earth. That said, without the other factors in play it still could happen and with the digital add adding more values to the card number wouldn't be a huge undertaking so I could see expanded in the future.
Each bank issuer is 6 digits, So Final would use the same first 6 digits on all cards. Then there is the check digit and CCV which aren't "part of the card number" but are otherwise used as well.
So you really only have 10^9 numbers, per bank, that can be used, before they get recycled. That said, there is nothing stopping a bank from having additional number sequences, so really you have 10^14 potentially usable numbers.
It's not wrong unless you find something wrong with my math.
Each bank issuer is 6 digits, So Final would use the same first 6 digits on all cards
1) Well aware of that.
2) Why is no one pointing out that there aren't 7 billion people using credit cards?
Then there is the check digit and CCV which aren't "part of the card number" but are otherwise used as well.
It's all part of the card number.
So you really only have 10^9 numbers, per bank, that can be used, before they get recycled.
I don't understand why this simply hypothetical of the primary card number (excluding CCV and date) needs to be only the individual's account number when I'm using a figure of 7 billion people on Earth (which isn't the exact number of people). It wouldn't make any sense as there is no one bank that will try to add all 7 billion people, and it's far to complex to then try to figure out all other values.
That said, there is nothing stopping a bank from having additional number sequences, so really you have 10^14 potentially usable numbers
That was a minor point I was making: you don't need an excessive number of digits to deal with today's population because each one adds a power of 10 to total number. I even stated that you could use hex without increasing the number of characters on the card.
Anything they want to do with card numbers are an easy task in today's digital age. My major point is that we'll be fine
Well, that makes two tech news sites that fell for this troll. Apparently, few journalists do research beyond reading press releases these days. A quick tour of the FinalCard.com Web site provides all the clues one needs:
The story of Final's genesis is utter nonsense. Target suffers a data breach so Visa cancels my card without any warning whatsoever? No. Never.
C-level execs of financial services companies typically have surnames. "CTO Matt and CEO Aaron?" Please.
There is a Matt Reed, billing himself as a "creative technologist," who has been spamming Pinterest with Finalcard.com ads. Look at his profile pic and tell me if you'd give him your real email address, let alone credit card application data like SSN: https://www.pinterest.com/mcreed/
Matt and Aaron are probably not going to exploit the personal information they collect. Most likely, they're just counting how many suckers they can get to bite.
Comments
Anyone notice that the guy in this video is the same one that did Coin's Kickstarter video? Makes me wonder if Final and Coin come from the same folks.
If each card for each retailer is still tied to my bank account, how does that help? So I only need to cancel one card number when the next Target/Home Depot/etc. get hacked? My bank account would still be cleaned out.
Quote:
Anyone notice that the guy in this video is the same one that did Coin's Kickstarter video? Makes me wonder if Final and Coin come from the same folks.
Or same talent agency? Maybe they saw him on the Coin Kickstarter and sought him out?
I was aware of the restrictions on digit fields as mentioned by you and a few others, and I think I had heard of problems in the EU, as you mentioned. Which is why I raised the issue of running out of numbers. Just like with SSNs and Phone No's. If I'd actually thought all 16 digits were available, as SolipsismX assumed, then I wouldn't have made the statement.
But the security number on the back already raises the non-identifier digits by three, and there's no reason that number couldn't be four or more digits long too, so, along with all the other qualifiers mentioned, whatever the top number is, without changes to the front of the card it's flexible, and we're nowhere near needing to worry about it.
To that point, the card security code for Amex is already at 4 digits.
To that point, the card security code for Amex is already at 4 digits.
Unlike VISA and Mastercard, Amex account numbers are only fifteen digits (typically grouped 4-6-5 on the physical card), not sixteen. Thus, all modern credit cards have nineteen digits when including the CVV.
As I stated, the unique value can be increased as needed (and has increased over the decades) so there is no reason to think it can't increase yet again. They could even use the same number of characters but move to a hex value if they wanted to keep the count down. This is not an insurmountable issue in today's digital age.
And there's no reason even to limit it to hex. Using 34 alpha numeric characters (eliminating I and O as too similar to one and zero), a 10 digit identifier would have over 2 quadrillion (2 x 1015) unique values. That's roughly 300,000 for each person currently on the planet. Add four more for the issuer and card typle, one or two for check digits, and you're back to the current 16 digits, even not counting the CVV code.
That's actually wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_card_number
Each bank issuer is 6 digits, So Final would use the same first 6 digits on all cards. Then there is the check digit and CCV which aren't "part of the card number" but are otherwise used as well.
So you really only have 10^9 numbers, per bank, that can be used, before they get recycled. That said, there is nothing stopping a bank from having additional number sequences, so really you have 10^14 potentially usable numbers.
It's not wrong unless you find something wrong with my math.
1) Well aware of that.
2) Why is no one pointing out that there aren't 7 billion people using credit cards?
It's all part of the card number.
I don't understand why this simply hypothetical of the primary card number (excluding CCV and date) needs to be only the individual's account number when I'm using a figure of 7 billion people on Earth (which isn't the exact number of people). It wouldn't make any sense as there is no one bank that will try to add all 7 billion people, and it's far to complex to then try to figure out all other values.
That was a minor point I was making: you don't need an excessive number of digits to deal with today's population because each one adds a power of 10 to total number. I even stated that you could use hex without increasing the number of characters on the card.
Anything they want to do with card numbers are an easy task in today's digital age. My major point is that we'll be fine
The story of Final's genesis is utter nonsense. Target suffers a data breach so Visa cancels my card without any warning whatsoever? No. Never.
C-level execs of financial services companies typically have surnames. "CTO Matt and CEO Aaron?" Please.
There is a Matt Reed, billing himself as a "creative technologist," who has been spamming Pinterest with Finalcard.com ads. Look at his profile pic and tell me if you'd give him your real email address, let alone credit card application data like SSN: https://www.pinterest.com/mcreed/
Matt and Aaron are probably not going to exploit the personal information they collect. Most likely, they're just counting how many suckers they can get to bite.