Steve Jobs: "
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;">"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." </p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;"><span style="line-height:1.4em;">Explain that Jony.</span>
</p>
The underlying idea is that you can't do great design by copying something. Take something and make it your own. Put so much of yourself into it that it’s then yours. That is the dividing line between copying and stealing. Einstein said "The key to originality is hiding your sources”. The idea is that there are no truly original thoughts and thus there is no truly original creation, everyone is influenced by the world around them. Most inventions improve the implementation, not the idea behind them. Good artists understand how to borrow from the world around them, while a great artist takes an existing idea, makes it his own, and refines the implementation so far that it's no longer recognisable.
Steve Jobs: "
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;">"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." </p>
<p style="margin:0px 0px 20px;"><span style="line-height:1.4em;">Explain that Jony.</span>
</p>
Pazuzu, it's amazing how mind-numbingly predictable and obtuse you are, you fucking relentless troll. It wouldn't take much for Jony to explain that, but it would be completely lost on someone like you. Do you think Picasso was a thief, or that he copied others? Maybe you should make an effort to go understand the meaning and jist behind the original quote-which is widely available- but you won't, because not only are you mind-numbingly dense, you're also incredibly lazy, have a blatant agenda, and intellectually dishonest. That's why you never acknowledge posters when they take the time to explain things to you, using facts and history. I've seen it a million times with you.
Maybe once in a while you should try to gain some insight from the words of someone like Ive, instead of being an ass and spending your limited about of mental capacity to come up with an idiotic quip. Why dont you actually LISTEN and ABSORB what he's saying, instead of being an asshole? Intelligent and intellectually curious people see it as a privelege when they can read or hear the words of extremely accomplished and skilled people. Then there's the intellectually stunted dipshits like you, who take it as an opportunity to mock. The sad thing is you always derail every single thread you're in, and makes it impossible to have any intelligent discussion about the topic at hand. Why not shut the **** up if you have nothing even remotely intelligent to contribute?
Poor Pazuzu opened the thread with a lovely, provocative post, in which he brought up the famous quote about great artists stealing.
In doing so, two things have occurred:
One group of people have responded to the quote with their own interpretations of what this quote really meant. GTR's answer stood out for me as being particularly accurate.
Another group of people—notably you and SolipsismX—have responded by hurling petty insults at Pazuzu for daring to ask a stimulating and pertinent question on the nature of the quote.
It's ironic that the person who has posed the best question and stimulated the best answers should also be the person who has received the most hatred from people like you.
Looks like Ive is an iPhone 6 user. I always thought he did the Plus because he had to, not because he wanted to.
So, you post a snapshot of Ive holding an iPhone6, and from that you make the desperate leap of logic that he didn't want to design the iPhone6 Plus.
:rolleyes:
Here's another leap of logic for you: He has more than one phone, and the other one is a 6plus. And I'm going to really stretch credibility here and suggest that he got them both for free.
Ten years from now, when Apple has its own mobile comms network and the SIM card has gone the way of the Dodo, folk will leave the house with the iPhone that suits the occasion:
Off for a run? Take the Apple Watch
Off to a party? Take the Apple Phone
Off on a business trip? Take the Apple Phone Plus
The iPhone Plus is here. Best get used to it, instead of posting tenuous scraps of evidence, trying to prove that it should never have existed.
Here's another possibility:
Off for a run? Take nothing.
Off to a party? Leave your tech at home. You're going to be sociable and talk to people, not to have your head buried in a screen.
Off on a business trip? Take the iPad.
Re "good artists copy, great artists steal" ... that means everybody copies, but the great ones do it without being noticed. Ripoffs are exact duplicates... or worse. They might copy the look but not the functionality, or vice versa. Stealing... and getting away with it, is when you've lifted the best stuff but made it your own.
No Jony, you're just really vain. You just want people to like you. I'm surprised at you, because I thought you really held the work up as the most important and not how you are perceived by people
You, Slurpy, are an embarrassment to the human race.
Poor Pazuzu opened the thread with a lovely, provocative post, in which he brought up the famous quote about great artists stealing.
In doing so, two things have occurred:
One group of people have responded to the quote with their own interpretations of what this quote really meant. GTR's answer stood out for me as being particularly accurate.
Another group of people—notably you and SolipsismX—have responded by hurling petty insults at Pazuzu for daring to ask a stimulating and pertinent question on the nature of the quote.
It's ironic that the person who has posed the best question and stimulated the best answers should also be the person who has received the most hatred from troglodytes like you.
Pazuzu destroyed the thread by playing one of the Apple and Jobs haters' favorite troll cards, the Picasso quote. You, a relative neophyte here, missed or misunderstood the many discussions about the context and broader meaning of what Jobs was saying.
The rage against pazuzu was once again deserved, because of his tireless, stubborn determination to wreck every thread he comments in. He wastes our time when he throws in these perverse, juvenile non sequiturs that the sane members have to knock down, often losing patience when they have to do so. Slurpy gave you and pazuzu several ways we could have approached this story that would have been far more valuable than this juvenile discussion that misses the point of what Ive was saying.
It's no surprise that you of all people are defending pazuzu's trolling.
So, you post a snapshot of Ive holding an iPhone6, and from that you make the desperate leap of logic that he didn't want to design the iPhone6 Plus.
:rolleyes:
Here's another leap of logic for you: He has more than one phone, and the other one is a 6plus. And I'm going to really stretch credibility here and suggest that he got them both for free.
Ten years from now, when Apple has its own mobile comms network and the SIM card has gone the way of the Dodo, folk will leave the house with the iPhone that suits the occasion:
Off for a run? Take the Apple Watch
Off to a party? Take the Apple Phone
Off on a business trip? Take the Apple Phone Plus
The iPhone Plus is here. Best get used to it, instead of posting tenuous scraps of evidence, trying to prove that it should never have existed.
Nah, I've thought that long before this photo. Don't forget it was Apple that told us 4" was the perfect size because you could comfortably use it with one hand. You don't comfortably use a 6 Plus with one hand.
"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
Explain that Jony.
There's a difference between taking a great idea (ie. the mobile phone) and reinventing/redesigning it to be something even greater (ie. the iPhone), versus someone taking an iPhone, pulling it apart and copying it part-by-part, hardware and software. That's stealing someone else's hard work. It's really easy to be second when someone else has done all the hard work first.
[VIDEO][/VIDEO]
The toilet company insulted him and said his toilet was too expensive. That's not a problem at Apple.
The man has a selection of fine cars, from Bentley's to Aston Martins, and he owns Jobs's private jet. I think his commute is not as dull as most peoples.
Increasingly I regard the Issacsson biography as drek, there's some good info but the conclusions are all wrong. Jobs had flaws but I don't think he was as bad as people think.
No, The toilet would have had chamfered edges which the company decided would be too uncomfortable for people to sit on I spite of the great way it would look
You know what, I don't really care how nice a guy Steve Jobs was or wasn't in everyday life—though it's my feeling he's been much misunderstood, but what do I know? I don't think much can be gleaned from Isaacson's book. He also wrote an Einstein biography that was shockingly muddled.
The bottom line is someone's contribution to society. A bigger jerk than Isaac Newton never drew breath. Would we be better off if he had never lived?
Nah, I've thought that long before this photo. Don't forget it was Apple that told us 4" was the perfect size because you could comfortably use it with one hand. You don't comfortably use a 6 Plus with one hand.
And I thought you were completely wrong about that from the first time you made it up, and I hoped you'd forgotten it by now.
If you're half-hearted or don't care about the design, you don't throw your weight into an entirely new display manufacturing line, at pixel densities never used before, in quantities never seen before in cutting-edge LTPS making, at low enough yields that probably call into question the feasibility of the design, at a resolution that also takes your graphics processing to the very edge, all for a screen so drop-dead gorgeous that only an aesthetically blind person could entertain what you are saying—i don't know where to begin taking apart this insult you are making to the care of the designers of this device.
Go to the store again and look at the pictures that are bonded to that glass. Look at the way the glass appears to be a frozen liquid under surface tension as it curves down to meet the aluminum. If you don't see massive amounts of care in that design and manufacture that belies your pet theory, then you need some serious work in sensory retraining. But don't feel bad—a lot of people do, or there would be no Android and no band-aid plastic or fake leather Samsung phones.
Steve was desperate to succeed, he was passionate and he did attain success. People helped him get there but I suspect his focus was slightly warped as it cost him his health. Johnny played his part well and is alive and well. Able to enjoy the victory.
And I thought you were completely wrong about that from the first time you made it up, and I hoped you'd forgotten it by now.
If you're half-hearted or don't care about the design, you don't throw your weight into an entirely new display manufacturing line, at pixel densities never used before, in quantities never seen before in cutting-edge LTPS making, at low enough yields that probably call into question the feasibility of the design, at a resolution that also takes your graphics processing to the very edge, all for a screen so drop-dead gorgeous that only an aesthetically blind person could entertain what you are saying—i don't know where to begin taking apart this insult you are making to the care of the designers of this device.
Go to the store again and look at the pictures that are bonded to that glass. Look at the way the glass appears to be a frozen liquid under surface tension as it curves down to meet the aluminum. If you don't see massive amounts of care in that design and manufacture that belies your pet theory, then you need some serious work in sensory retraining. But don't feel bad—a lot of people do, or there would be no Android and no band-aid plastic or fake leather Samsung phones.
I'm not talking about the quality of the phones but the size. And the fact is Apple pitched the iPhone 5 4" display as the right size because you could comfortably use in one hand. Now we get reachability, which lets be honest, If an Android OEM came up with it we'd be calling it gimmicky. I'm still not convinced Jony Ive wanted to make a phablet (heck if Steve were still around I'd say the same thing about him) but alas the market seems to want this type of device so Apple had to do it. Personally I think it's ridiculous. And again, just to be clear, I'm referring to the screen size not the design of the device. I've held both phones in my hand and I think the iPhone 6 feels amazing. I have no doubt its a brilliant piece of design. But I use my 5S one handed all the time and I'm not sure I could do that with a 6.
I hope Vanity Fair posts the entire video because it sounds really interesting.
I hope so too, Jony looks more open to conversation here than usual:
[VIDEO]
In other interviews, he tends to be trying to explain design decisions on a particular product. Some interviews are more awkward and forced like the one at the watch event:
[VIDEO]
He always comes across like a really great guy to be friends with. Some people don't have patience for that kind of dialog and that news guy in the watch video seemed to want to keep pushing Jony along but what he says shows a level of thoughtfulness that is under-appreciated these days. People often just want the headlines or statements that fit into a tweet. That story about Steve getting him to focus is very revealing. Creativity is rarely narrow because it's too limiting but in order to ship a compelling product, creativity has to be contained. There's an article here talking about Steve's sense of urgency and asserting that it was one of his most important traits:
There are many examples of this kind of thing in Apple's history and even Steve working almost right up until he died. It makes me wonder about the motive or drive. None of the team seem to particularly care about the financial reward. One of the quotes that is on the wall at Apple is the following:
"I think if you do something and it turns out pretty good, then you should go do something else wonderful, not dwell on it for too long. Just figure out what’s next."
He always seemed to want to move on and on from the Mac to the iPod to the iPhone to the iPad.
"I’m convinced that about half of what separates the successful entrepreneurs from the non-successful ones is pure perseverance.
We’re here to put a dent in the universe. Otherwise why else even be here?
Let’s go invent tomorrow instead of worrying about what happened yesterday."
While he took some measure of fame and fortune, there just seemed to be a drive to make great products and not for competitive reasons. But even then, being passionate about a product would have to require that the product was valuable so he'd have to have used them for something that made him happy. Perhaps reading, listening to music and experiencing other content. That's the fundamental motive. It looks like Steve rarely wore a watch, just occasionally in the early days and the iPhone would have replaced the time-keeping function but the fitness aspect is clearly important to Tim and it's another option for music.
According to Twitter, in this interview Ive said his commute to/from Cupertino is around two hours each way. Ouch.
I don't think he goes in every day though. He did say the team meets 3-4 times per week but he didn't say if he meets with them. Tim said before when that interfering guy wanted to bother Jony that Jony isn't involved with the day to day operation.
Tim Cook said he hadn't read a book yet that adequately covered the Steve Jobs that he knew. People only truly know themselves, what everyone else gets is what they allow them to see and that changes for everyone.
Comments
Very well put.
There's nothing new under the sun.
Poor Pazuzu opened the thread with a lovely, provocative post, in which he brought up the famous quote about great artists stealing.
In doing so, two things have occurred:
One group of people have responded to the quote with their own interpretations of what this quote really meant. GTR's answer stood out for me as being particularly accurate.
Another group of people—notably you and SolipsismX—have responded by hurling petty insults at Pazuzu for daring to ask a stimulating and pertinent question on the nature of the quote.
It's ironic that the person who has posed the best question and stimulated the best answers should also be the person who has received the most hatred from people like you.
Here's another possibility:
Off for a run? Take nothing.
Off to a party? Leave your tech at home. You're going to be sociable and talk to people, not to have your head buried in a screen.
Off on a business trip? Take the iPad.
That's the Boss talking!!
Pazuzu destroyed the thread by playing one of the Apple and Jobs haters' favorite troll cards, the Picasso quote. You, a relative neophyte here, missed or misunderstood the many discussions about the context and broader meaning of what Jobs was saying.
The rage against pazuzu was once again deserved, because of his tireless, stubborn determination to wreck every thread he comments in. He wastes our time when he throws in these perverse, juvenile non sequiturs that the sane members have to knock down, often losing patience when they have to do so. Slurpy gave you and pazuzu several ways we could have approached this story that would have been far more valuable than this juvenile discussion that misses the point of what Ive was saying.
It's no surprise that you of all people are defending pazuzu's trolling.
Jony Ive is is seriously trying to communicate something about the genius of Jobs, even though it's clearly uncomfortable for him. What a guy.
Edit: I see Rogifan gave a link earlier that I missed.
Nah, I've thought that long before this photo. Don't forget it was Apple that told us 4" was the perfect size because you could comfortably use it with one hand. You don't comfortably use a 6 Plus with one hand.
There, I fixed it for you. :P
Wow, an impressive list of speakers at that summit...
http://www.vfsummit.com
Steve Jobs: "
"Picasso had a saying -- 'good artists copy; great artists steal' -- and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
Explain that Jony.
There's a difference between taking a great idea (ie. the mobile phone) and reinventing/redesigning it to be something even greater (ie. the iPhone), versus someone taking an iPhone, pulling it apart and copying it part-by-part, hardware and software. That's stealing someone else's hard work. It's really easy to be second when someone else has done all the hard work first.
No, The toilet would have had chamfered edges which the company decided would be too uncomfortable for people to sit on I spite of the great way it would look
I recently rediscovered this: http://5by5.tv/hypercritical/42
I think it says all about the book.
versus someone taking an iPhone, pulling it apart and copying it part-by-part, hardware and software.
Yeah, you can put an iPhone screen on a G1. Apps totally run on both devices, right?
All actual copying aside (and there's plenty -- just not part by part), I'm glad nobody is copying the ridiculous cable standards.
And I thought you were completely wrong about that from the first time you made it up, and I hoped you'd forgotten it by now.
If you're half-hearted or don't care about the design, you don't throw your weight into an entirely new display manufacturing line, at pixel densities never used before, in quantities never seen before in cutting-edge LTPS making, at low enough yields that probably call into question the feasibility of the design, at a resolution that also takes your graphics processing to the very edge, all for a screen so drop-dead gorgeous that only an aesthetically blind person could entertain what you are saying—i don't know where to begin taking apart this insult you are making to the care of the designers of this device.
Go to the store again and look at the pictures that are bonded to that glass. Look at the way the glass appears to be a frozen liquid under surface tension as it curves down to meet the aluminum. If you don't see massive amounts of care in that design and manufacture that belies your pet theory, then you need some serious work in sensory retraining. But don't feel bad—a lot of people do, or there would be no Android and no band-aid plastic or fake leather Samsung phones.
Here's a video clip: http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/10/jony-ive-lessons-from-steve-jobs
I hope Vanity Fair posts the entire video because it sounds really interesting.
Very interesting indeed!!
Thanks for the link!
I'm not talking about the quality of the phones but the size. And the fact is Apple pitched the iPhone 5 4" display as the right size because you could comfortably use in one hand. Now we get reachability, which lets be honest, If an Android OEM came up with it we'd be calling it gimmicky. I'm still not convinced Jony Ive wanted to make a phablet (heck if Steve were still around I'd say the same thing about him) but alas the market seems to want this type of device so Apple had to do it. Personally I think it's ridiculous. And again, just to be clear, I'm referring to the screen size not the design of the device. I've held both phones in my hand and I think the iPhone 6 feels amazing. I have no doubt its a brilliant piece of design. But I use my 5S one handed all the time and I'm not sure I could do that with a 6.
I hope so too, Jony looks more open to conversation here than usual:
[VIDEO]
In other interviews, he tends to be trying to explain design decisions on a particular product. Some interviews are more awkward and forced like the one at the watch event:
[VIDEO]
He always comes across like a really great guy to be friends with. Some people don't have patience for that kind of dialog and that news guy in the watch video seemed to want to keep pushing Jony along but what he says shows a level of thoughtfulness that is under-appreciated these days. People often just want the headlines or statements that fit into a tweet. That story about Steve getting him to focus is very revealing. Creativity is rarely narrow because it's too limiting but in order to ship a compelling product, creativity has to be contained. There's an article here talking about Steve's sense of urgency and asserting that it was one of his most important traits:
http://www.businessinsider.com/malcolm-gladwell-on-steve-jobs-2014-10
There are many examples of this kind of thing in Apple's history and even Steve working almost right up until he died. It makes me wonder about the motive or drive. None of the team seem to particularly care about the financial reward. One of the quotes that is on the wall at Apple is the following:
"I think if you do something and it turns out pretty good, then you should go do something else wonderful, not dwell on it for too long. Just figure out what’s next."
He always seemed to want to move on and on from the Mac to the iPod to the iPhone to the iPad.
"I’m convinced that about half of what separates the successful entrepreneurs from the non-successful ones is pure perseverance.
We’re here to put a dent in the universe. Otherwise why else even be here?
Let’s go invent tomorrow instead of worrying about what happened yesterday."
While he took some measure of fame and fortune, there just seemed to be a drive to make great products and not for competitive reasons. But even then, being passionate about a product would have to require that the product was valuable so he'd have to have used them for something that made him happy. Perhaps reading, listening to music and experiencing other content. That's the fundamental motive. It looks like Steve rarely wore a watch, just occasionally in the early days and the iPhone would have replaced the time-keeping function but the fitness aspect is clearly important to Tim and it's another option for music.
I don't think he goes in every day though. He did say the team meets 3-4 times per week but he didn't say if he meets with them. Tim said before when that interfering guy wanted to bother Jony that Jony isn't involved with the day to day operation.
Tim Cook said he hadn't read a book yet that adequately covered the Steve Jobs that he knew. People only truly know themselves, what everyone else gets is what they allow them to see and that changes for everyone.