Carl Icahn says Apple should buy more of its 'dramatically undervalued' stock, reveals valuation of

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  • Reply 81 of 107
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Yes he does know better.

     

    Want proof?  18 months ago these "combined evaluations of all other market participants" that you put so much trust in had Apple valued at $55.




    Yes, I guess since Apple is so secretive, it makes it hard for the consensus of those outside the company to mean much. But people outside Apple do have knowledge of technology and tech trends in general, which doesn't count for nothing.

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    As a stockholder I support him in his support of Apple.


     

    He doesn't really support Apple, he supports APPL. To support Apple you would give them good feedback about their products, or write software for their ecosystem.

  • Reply 82 of 107
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

    Ichan does not support APPL either.


    When someone of his reputation comes out and says the stock is currently half price, surely supports the stock price?

  • Reply 83 of 107
    drowdrow Posts: 124member
    if icahn really believed it was worth $200, he'd shut up and buy all the shares he could at $100. he's not.
  • Reply 84 of 107
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    The guy in right in the sense that Apple is undervalued if you consider future potential. One big factor is Apple Pay which I think many are discounting too much. However I don't think it is smart at all to muddle with current management practices.
  • Reply 85 of 107
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     



    so ignorant.  you have ZERO idea how the stock market works




    Really? I just looked up what Icahn has done before and it gave quite good idea that words like "stock market" are usually used by people who want to look smart but have very little actual knowledge. That Icahn is doing exactly the same thing he did with Motorola, is fact. No market is doing any hostile takeovers, predators like Icahn are and people like you even support people like him because they hope they can gain something from it. Usually they are wrong. If your 550 shares will be worth 10 cents from nominal value dollar, (isn't it dollar now, after split?) you will remember my words. It doesn't take a genius to see how Icahn is playing it out exactly the same way he did it with Motorola.

  • Reply 86 of 107
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member

    Quote:


    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    You're just thinking of just Icahn. He can influence many people (shareholders and middlemen) and gain enough votes to elect his own board of directors nominees. And boom, the BoD ousts cook and installs a Carl acolyte. Before you know it, the puppet CEO dismantles Apple for the sake of $$$.

     

    Apple is way, way past the "it would be worth more broken up and sold for cash than as an operating concern" days.  Your scenario makes no sense with a successful CEO currently at the helm.  "Oh yes, I want to raise the price of AAPL so I can buy up the shares at a premium and them install an inferior management team to run the company I just overpaid for!"  Genius.

  • Reply 87 of 107
    castcorecastcore Posts: 141member
    no25 wrote: »
    Does anybody else wish this guy would just shut the hell up

    Since he talked last year, stock has shot up, like him or not, he has been right more often then not
  • Reply 88 of 107
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,878member
    malax wrote: »
    Quote:

    Apple is way, way past the "it would be worth more broken up and sold for cash than as an operating concern" days.  Your scenario makes no sense with a successful CEO currently at the helm.  "Oh yes, I want to raise the price of AAPL so I can buy up the shares at a premium and them install an inferior management team to run the company I just overpaid for!"  Genius.

    Why is he meddling in Apple's affairs now? Stop interfering. But what if Cook rebuffs him? I don't think Carl Ego will let that go lightly. Carl wants to be the puppet master. He pumps up stock as high as he can and then dump stock for a large profit. His own BoD/CEO will listen to his schemes.
  • Reply 89 of 107
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,878member
    castcore wrote: »
    Since he talked last year, stock has shot up, like him or not, he has been right more often then not

    Right. It's not because of what Apple was doing at all.
  • Reply 90 of 107
    nishinishi Posts: 1member
    Icahn is a moron. Yes, I am an Apple shareholder and I wish that greedy piece of **** would die already. The only thing he cares about is making short term money. If he can make a profit while driving a company into the ground, he would call that a success. Never mind all the people who got put out of work. Look at what he did to TWA.
  • Reply 91 of 107
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

     



    So .. let's say that Apple heeds Icahn's advice, increases its stock buyback and the price of AAPL shares subsequently doubles. Icahn makes a huge paper profit but so does every other Apple shareholder. A rising tide lifts all ships. Explain to me what's wrong with that.

     

    As to hostile takeover, give me a break. Given Apple's market cap compared to Icahn's resources, that would be akin to a pissant crawling up an elephant's leg with rape on its mind.




    Just look up what he did with Motorola. Textbook case, same here. As soon as Icahn can gain considerable control (with considerable support from other shareholders because lil' shareholders think he is Santa Claus) he will strip company from cash. Best way is buyback but just burning large amount of cash will do too. Then he ousts Cook and brings in some Elop who will be pushing for lending money for operations and splitting Apple into pieces because of "concentration of value" or some BS like this. Then some manipulations with stock, board seat and then it's time for yard sale. This has nothing to do with market cap and don't underestimate Icahn's resources. When he has people who believe he can pull it off, then he will have whatever resources are needed for this. And he doesn't even need so much. What he needs is support from little shareholders who think he's the captain who will always ride their boat on rising tide. But he will happily sink all shares, including his own, because for him they do not matter (unlike other shareholders). His payday will come when he will sell Apple into bits and pieces. This will be the real money.

  • Reply 92 of 107

    I don't get the value of a stock buy-back. Apple's cash would essentially be vaporized when the shares are retired. Yes, each share of stock would equate to a bigger share of the company but that by itself won't necessarily cause the price to go up. As many here have pointed out, the value of AAPL is dependent on many, many variables - some rational, some very much not so. One could also argue that the value of Apple as a company would decrease in proportion to the decrease in the cash stockpile used for the buy-back.

     

    If reducing cash is a goal, why not increase the dividend? This would pay a tangible benefit to shareholders in the form of cold, hard cash, unlike the theoretical value of a stock price bump from a buy-back. Staying in the realm of theory, a dividend increase could also bump up the stock price by making AAPL more attractive to income investors.

     

    As for Icahn's motives, perhaps his push for a buy-back is less about increasing the value of AAPL and more about owning a larger share of the company.

  • Reply 93 of 107
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ArtDent View Post

     

    I don't get the value of a stock buy-back. Apple's cash would essentially be vaporized when the shares are retired. Yes, each share of stock would equate to a bigger share of the company but that by itself won't necessarily cause the price to go up. As many here have pointed out, the value of AAPL is dependent on many, many variables - some rational, some very much not so. One could also argue that the value of Apple as a company would decrease in proportion to the decrease in the cash stockpile used for the buy-back.

     

    If reducing cash is a goal, why not increase the dividend? This would pay a tangible benefit to shareholders in the form of cold, hard cash, unlike the theoretical value of a stock price bump from a buy-back. Staying in the realm of theory, a dividend increase could also bump up the stock price by making AAPL more attractive to income investors.

     

    As for Icahn's motives, perhaps his push for a buy-back is less about increasing the value of AAPL and more about owning a larger share of the company.


     

    The theory behind the buyback is the company is getting their stock at a discount. Now, if something like another global slowdown or economic crash happens (not impossible, despite the rosy economic propaganda we've been getting for years), then Apple would have less cash on hand for future economic bad times.

  • Reply 94 of 107
    esoomesoom Posts: 155member

    If Icahn is right, and Apple does approve a buyback, I'll be a millionaire.

     

    Apple will likely meet him halfway, and should.  All that cash just makes them a target for every damn country to tax and raise hell with.  They may as well just do a buyback.

  • Reply 95 of 107
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,114member
    margus1000 wrote: »

    Just look up what he did with Motorola. Textbook case, same here. As soon as Icahn can gain considerable control (with considerable support from other shareholders because lil' shareholders think he is Santa Claus) he will strip company from cash. Best way is buyback but just burning large amount of cash will do too. Then he ousts Cook and brings in some Elop who will be pushing for lending money for operations and splitting Apple into pieces because of "concentration of value" or some BS like this. Then some manipulations with stock, board seat and then it's time for yard sale. This has nothing to do with market cap and don't underestimate Icahn's resources. When he has people who believe he can pull it off, then he will have whatever resources are needed for this. And he doesn't even need so much. What he needs is support from little shareholders who think he's the captain who will always ride their boat on rising tide. But he will happily sink all shares, including his own, because for him they do not matter (unlike other shareholders). His payday will come when he will sell Apple into bits and pieces. This will be the real money.

    Hoo boy. How about a nice quiet cup of herbal tea? You've drifted into fantasyland and have woven yourself a complex and bizarre narrative.

    As to Motorola, that once great technology marvel ran off the rails years before Icahn ever got into the act. There's nothing that Icahn did to Motorola that it didn't do to itself three times over, and some Monday morning quarterbacks looked back and concluded that Icahn took a bath on his Motorola investment as well. Any comparison between the Apple of today and Motorola immediately pre-Icahn is ridiculous. The irony is that Motorola invented so much of today's technology, then stood like a deer in the headlights until the semi truck of change blasted it into oblivion.

    Yes, let's look up Motorola, and while you're at it, have the integrity not to try to rewrite history.
  • Reply 96 of 107
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,502member
    sog35 wrote: »
    Three shares? LOL.

    I'm holding 550 shares right now.  If you are not an Apple investor than you don't understand the good Ichan is doing.

    I'm sitting on nearly 3k and I am sick of Icahn.
  • Reply 97 of 107
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,114member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post





    I'm sitting on nearly 3k and I am sick of Icahn.



    Nobody has to like the guy, but people listen to him. And if he makes people some money along the way, so much the better. Letting emotions get in the way of sound investment decisions is an invitation to disaster.

     

    The outsized reputation that Carl Icahn has gained among so many posting here is laughable. Mere mention of his name makes them pee their pants.

     

    Halloween is coming ... Boo!

  • Reply 98 of 107

    If Icahn's projections for Apple's revenue and net income growth are accurate, then I'm all for his buyback plan. I, however, don't believe Apple will be doing THAT amazing. $330 billion in revenue and $110 billion in operating income? I'd love for that to come to fruition but personally I am planning on the numbers being about 20% lower. 



     

  • Reply 99 of 107
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,568member

    Naive people thinks Carl is successful investor and he is helping Apple boosting it's stock price.  I am a Apple investor, fan, product owner and like to see Apple stock reach to zillion $$. But, not like what Carl or any such hedge fund managers way because they are cruel opportunist short term investor. They push company management to move stock up, than when hype reach to a high point; they sell their stake having close tie with company management, inside information. Who suffers ? Small investors, employees, pension funds who not just invest in company but care to support the company. You know, Carl invested around $5B in Apple and he does not own/use apple product, iPhone... This is how much he is loyal, faithful to Apple. He just wants to push stock up fast and get out. Moreover, in past by doing investor activism; he has screwed the companies.

  • Reply 100 of 107
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wood1208 View Post

     

    Naive people thinks Carl is successful investor and he is helping Apple boosting it's stock price.  I am a Apple investor, fan, product owner and like to see Apple stock reach to zillion $$. But, not like what Carl or any such hedge fund managers way because they are cruel opportunist short term investor. They push company management to move stock up, than when hype reach to a high point; they sell their stake having close tie with company management, inside information. Who suffers ? Small investors, employees, pension funds who not just invest in company but care to support the company. You know, Carl invested around $5B in Apple and he does not own/use apple product, iPhone... This is how much he is loyal, faithful to Apple. He just wants to push stock up fast and get out. Moreover, in past by doing investor activism; he has screwed the companies.




    My thoughts exactly. As per another poster: Even if AAPL reaches 200, what do you think he will do, stay? I bet he'll sell. That's what all market players that make a living from, do once they achieve their goals. And they like to achieve it quickly, unscrupulously, and if it's possible by forcing other into making decisions that consolidate their "prediction".

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