retailers who have not, will have to update their POS devices. those how have and are unwilling to accept apple pay probably updated with something that does not include NFC.
This won't last. For the same reasons they spent money on card readers in the first place they'll adopt new PoS terminals that will work with NFC. The cost simply isn't that high and the benefits will be too great.
Let's take the Verifone product below and round up to $400 per unit for training and installation, to keep it simple, how much in sales would it take before the investment paid for itself. (I'm not even going to take into consideration potential for lost sales if they don't invest because it 1) complicates the scenario, and 2) likely won't be an issue for awhile since we'll likely still carry cards with us most places.)
My guess is most of these merchants are just scared because they've heard for years that NFC is going to have a major impact with this or that company standing behind it. Give them some time to see how well it works and how many customers ask if they have it. Eventually the outliers will have to keeping hearing, "What do you mean you don't take ?Pay?," until they finally give in. This has been an amazing year for Apple so far but ?Pay is the biggest of them.
PS: Not sure if they stuck to this but if they did, after 3.5 years there might be a lot more merchants out there than we realize.
83 known data breaches (not including several major industries such as medical/pharmaceutical) thus far in 2014 which include among others:
The Evolution Store
Albertson's
Viator Inc
Bartell Hotels
Beef O'Brady's Restaurants
The Home Depot
J.P Morgan Chase
Dairy Queen
The UPS Store
Supervalu
Recreational Equipment Inc. (REI)
Wall Street Journal
The Houstonian Hotel, Club and Spa
PF Chang's
Ebay
etc.
etc.
etc.
Given the option of two competing stores where one offers ApplePay and the other doesn't I'll hand my money to the one who does. Target vs WallyWorld, Whole Foods vs WallyWorld, anyone vs Worst Buy. I'll speak with my wallet.
Given the option of two competing stores where one offers ApplePay and the other doesn't I'll hand my money to the one who does. Target vs WallyWorld, Whole Foods vs WallyWorld, anyone vs Worst Buy. I'll speak with my wallet.
And if I must shop at a retailer without Apple Pay, I'll use cash.
Excuse me, Chipotle, PizzaHut, and KFC are not restaurants. They are fast food joints, purveying 'food-like' substances which usher their patrons down the path of degenerating health. No one who cares about their health would be caught dead in them %u2014 or maybe they would.
Macy's may be responsible when you use your Macy's card, but when using a major credit card, the card is, I believe, responsible, unless or until the card company demonstrates a pattern of negligence by the merchant - at least that's my recollection as a former retailer (one lifetime of several).
That changes next year. The merchants will then be responsible and will have
to pay.
Pretty easy to follow the money on this one. Banks stand to gain more than retailers. You're not going to need to buy more pants just because of Apple Pay, so there's not a huge benefit to retailers. The security concerns are very minor for day-to-day business. Retail employees steal about 10x more than external thieves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53
Most of the companies listed are worthless anyway. I refuse to go to Walmart. The companies that want business from people with iPhones will adopt apple pay and the others can continue to desl with people without much buying power.
Walmart sells a lot of iPhones with plans. A huge number of Apple device owners shop there.
It would cost a tremendous amount of money to change the hardware at every register in every store in the list above. There is just very very little incentive to do it.
The giant problem is that there are a relatively tiny number of NFC terminals deployed, and most of them don't have it operative. Also it doesn't mean much just yet, but there are a LOT of new terminals deployed that have slots for the new "chip" cards, but I've been trying them lately and haven't found any that work. I suspect that it mostly goes back to giant corporate IT departments not getting off the dime to do the work required to enable them.
Those chip card terminals have been installed in preparation for going live in September (?) 2015 whereupon Visa, MC, and Amex will no longer cover losses from fraud on transactions conducted with swipe cards. Merchants will have to eat swipe card losses.
For example, take the state and county fairs that happen all across the country during the summer - with the advent of Square and other tools that allow Joe Schmoe to take cards anywhere anytime for his goods and services, I find myself not doing business with people who will only take cash, since I rarely carry it. In everyday shopping around town, in the urban area which I live, there are some small business that will only take cash. These people definitely don't get my business. The point being - payment method does in fact determine whether a merchant will get a customer's business. It's all about convenience for the customer.
As a merchant, however, I would be concerned about a system that is clearly proprietary to Apple devices. Lest we forget, Apple has a minority market share in the smart phone space. What of all the Android, Windows Phone, Blackberry, and other devices out there? Does Apple have plans to open up their system to any platform? Until that question begins to get some answers, I would probably hold out too.
As a merchant, however, I would be concerned about a system that is clearly proprietary to Apple devices. Lest we forget, Apple has a minority market share in the smart phone space. What of all the Android, Windows Phone, Blackberry, and other devices out there? Does Apple have plans to open up their system to any platform? Until that question begins to get some answers, I would probably hold out too.
My understanding is that ApplePay runs on the standard NFC terminal so a merchant doesn't have to shell out for any exclusive Apple-only hardware.
Everyone who uses Apple Pay should always complain to retailers who don't accept it. They make you get out your card? Be sure and tell them you prefer Apple Pay and that next time you'll shop elsewhere.
As a merchant, however, I would be concerned about a system that is clearly proprietary to Apple devices. Lest we forget, Apple has a minority market share in the smart phone space. What of all the Android, Windows Phone, Blackberry, and other devices out there? Does Apple have plans to open up their system to any platform? Until that question begins to get some answers, I would probably hold out too.
As a merchant, however, I would be concerned about a system that is clearly proprietary to Apple devices. Lest we forget, Apple has a minority market share in the smart phone space. What of all the Android, Windows Phone, Blackberry, and other devices out there? Does Apple have plans to open up their system to any platform? Until that question begins to get some answers, I would probably hold out too.
The same NFC terminal will support different payment systems, in much the same way that current readers support multiple credit cards.
You are correct that Apple's market share is much lower than that of Android, but if there's one thing I've learned, after watching Samsung's phone business collapse overnight, is that market share is not as important as the quality of your customer base. Apple users tend to have more money and are a lot more willing to spend it. They loyal when treated with respect and never forget the retailers who made tainted their experience. It would be a bad business decision to attempt to force them towards an inferior payment solution.
If it’s declined by the credit card company, there is no sale...
You think they run the card, get declined then give it the “customer” anyway?
I guess I wasn't clear. I mean the sale goes through, but afterwards the true owner of the CC states that they had a stollen card. In which case, the CC company will not charge the card owner. Somebody eats the loss. I was under the impression that the card company then declines to pay the merchant, but perhaps the card company eats the loss.
I have to wonder if the refusal by these outlets to use ApplePay (in addition to technology) has more to do with giving control of the customer over to Apple's system.
Best Buy Rewards, gift cards, etc... are all designed to collect customer data. Using ApplePay for everything might make these retailers uncomfortable.
I would like to point out if you read the article this one is based off of, most don't say "no". They say they are not ready imlying they don't have the hardware in place. Even BP says they won't be ready until 2016. So as of October 2015 merchants will be %100 responsible for the liability of the fraud if they are not up to standards layer out by the credit card companies like Visa and MasterCard wich say they need to be using chip and pin or a system as secure like NFC and apple pay. Currently the credit card companies are eating the loss as part of the buisness model. So this is the incentive for merchants to update the card readers. Gas stations have until 2017 because of the extra complexity of updating gas pumps. So they will all be ready soon within a year or they are taking the risk of not only being publicly outed but also being responsible for the dollar amount being lost if they are not up to date. Chip and pin or NFC and pin has been around since 1999, the U.S. is one of the last countries to move to this model and the card companies are changing the policies to make this happen. It's a proven system, maybe not the best but way better then what we are using today. Apple has figured out a way to add to the chip and pin model making it more secure with randomized token authentication. Because it's build on top of chip and pin and makes it more secure without reveling the card number to the merchant or at the terminal making it difficult for middle man systems to grab any useful information adding to the prevention of fraud, and this is why the card companies and big banks are backing this model.
Comments
retailers who have not, will have to update their POS devices. those how have and are unwilling to accept apple pay probably updated with something that does not include NFC.
see part 3.
http://www.tuaw.com/2014/10/09/why-apple-pay-is-poised-to-succeed-where-others-failed/
Let's take the Verifone product below and round up to $400 per unit for training and installation, to keep it simple, how much in sales would it take before the investment paid for itself. (I'm not even going to take into consideration potential for lost sales if they don't invest because it 1) complicates the scenario, and 2) likely won't be an issue for awhile since we'll likely still carry cards with us most places.)
[LIST]
[*] http://www.barcodesinc.com/verifone/vx-520.htm#
[/LIST]
My guess is most of these merchants are just scared because they've heard for years that NFC is going to have a major impact with this or that company standing behind it. Give them some time to see how well it works and how many customers ask if they have it. Eventually the outliers will have to keeping hearing, "What do you mean you don't take ?Pay?," until they finally give in. This has been an amazing year for Apple so far but ?Pay is the biggest of them.
PS: Not sure if they stuck to this but if they did, after 3.5 years there might be a lot more merchants out there than we realize.
[LIST]
[*] https://gigaom.com/2011/03/04/verifone-all-new-point-of-sale-terminals-will-get-nfc/
[/LIST]
And from today's news, KMart (which is owned by Sears) got added to this list.... http://online.wsj.com/articles/sears-reports-data-breach-at-kmart-1412979038
(Just noticed that SpamSandwich beat me to it).
????
And if I must shop at a retailer without Apple Pay, I'll use cash.
That changes next year. The merchants will then be responsible and will have
to pay.
Pretty easy to follow the money on this one. Banks stand to gain more than retailers. You're not going to need to buy more pants just because of Apple Pay, so there's not a huge benefit to retailers. The security concerns are very minor for day-to-day business. Retail employees steal about 10x more than external thieves.
Quote:
Most of the companies listed are worthless anyway. I refuse to go to Walmart. The companies that want business from people with iPhones will adopt apple pay and the others can continue to desl with people without much buying power.
Walmart sells a lot of iPhones with plans. A huge number of Apple device owners shop there.
It would cost a tremendous amount of money to change the hardware at every register in every store in the list above. There is just very very little incentive to do it.
Those chip card terminals have been installed in preparation for going live in September (?) 2015 whereupon Visa, MC, and Amex will no longer cover losses from fraud on transactions conducted with swipe cards. Merchants will have to eat swipe card losses.
As a merchant, however, I would be concerned about a system that is clearly proprietary to Apple devices. Lest we forget, Apple has a minority market share in the smart phone space. What of all the Android, Windows Phone, Blackberry, and other devices out there? Does Apple have plans to open up their system to any platform? Until that question begins to get some answers, I would probably hold out too.
Bingo ...
And, then 2% instant [merchant] discount when you use Apple Pay ...
BTW, there is absolutely no reason that paying with Apple Pay prevents you from participating in loyalty, coupon and lay-away prorgrams!
My understanding is that ApplePay runs on the standard NFC terminal so a merchant doesn't have to shell out for any exclusive Apple-only hardware.
Everyone who uses Apple Pay should always complain to retailers who don't accept it. They make you get out your card? Be sure and tell them you prefer Apple Pay and that next time you'll shop elsewhere.
SERIOUSLY?!
The same NFC terminal will support different payment systems, in much the same way that current readers support multiple credit cards.
You are correct that Apple's market share is much lower than that of Android, but if there's one thing I've learned, after watching Samsung's phone business collapse overnight, is that market share is not as important as the quality of your customer base. Apple users tend to have more money and are a lot more willing to spend it. They loyal when treated with respect and never forget the retailers who made tainted their experience. It would be a bad business decision to attempt to force them towards an inferior payment solution.
I guess I wasn't clear. I mean the sale goes through, but afterwards the true owner of the CC states that they had a stollen card. In which case, the CC company will not charge the card owner. Somebody eats the loss. I was under the impression that the card company then declines to pay the merchant, but perhaps the card company eats the loss.
I have to wonder if the refusal by these outlets to use ApplePay (in addition to technology) has more to do with giving control of the customer over to Apple's system.
Best Buy Rewards, gift cards, etc... are all designed to collect customer data. Using ApplePay for everything might make these retailers uncomfortable.
So as of October 2015 merchants will be %100 responsible for the liability of the fraud if they are not up to standards layer out by the credit card companies like Visa and MasterCard wich say they need to be using chip and pin or a system as secure like NFC and apple pay. Currently the credit card companies are eating the loss as part of the buisness model. So this is the incentive for merchants to update the card readers. Gas stations have until 2017 because of the extra complexity of updating gas pumps. So they will all be ready soon within a year or they are taking the risk of not only being publicly outed but also being responsible for the dollar amount being lost if they are not up to date. Chip and pin or NFC and pin has been around since 1999, the U.S. is one of the last countries to move to this model and the card companies are changing the policies to make this happen. It's a proven system, maybe not the best but way better then what we are using today. Apple has figured out a way to add to the chip and pin model making it more secure with randomized token authentication. Because it's build on top of chip and pin and makes it more secure without reveling the card number to the merchant or at the terminal making it difficult for middle man systems to grab any useful information adding to the prevention of fraud, and this is why the card companies and big banks are backing this model.