When Apple pay launch in EU that is a 730+ Millions population served because all merchants accept chipped cards and those terminals are NFC since 2 years at least. As it is the banks who own the terminals here (and lease it), the terminals are replaced on a 3 year cycle maximum, because if they are not up to date the banks are liable. About the same in most of Asia. In Australia non-chip cards are not even still accepted.
USA is the oddball here, still using a 20 years outdated tech.
It will be an huge success everywhere else, and even in USA merchants will likely change their stance quickly.
Who is going to accept Apple Pay? Where is that list??? I have not heard of anyone that will accept it. What is the point?
Looks like we have another victim of Instant Gratification syndrome. Nothing happens overnight, but I bet you will see very significant deployment by a year from now.
As far as I am concerned, that works very well. I usually upgrade my iPhone every two years. Even with the iPhone 6 and the iPhone 6+, my preference is for a phone with the form factor of the iPhone 5s. By that time, Apple should be out with the model in a similar size that incorporates Apple Pay, and there will be fairly wide acceptance across the retail community. Those who expect to be using it all the time in February are bound to be disappointed.
Apple Pay will become commonplace in due time. Go to the bathroom as usual. No need to squeeze your wienie and try to wait it out.
I see an opportunity for a new app... One that specifically lists which merchants do and do not support Apple Pay. Integrated with Siri to only list (find) establishments that accept Apple Pay.
The others will fall in line pretty quick...
Excellent! Incorporate Apple Map ApplePay locations and iBeacons ...
Are all chip&sign card terminals also NFC terminals? My understanding is they aren't.
Not all Chip&Sign Card Terminals are NFC terminals. But ALL merchants are being forced to buy them in 2015. This will cost them millions or billions of dollars to do.
So if merchants are SMART and don't want to buy the expensive Chip&Sign Card Terminals a second time to get NFC functionality, then they will chose the model with NFC functionality even if they won't accept NFC payments.
Therefore, over time with large numbers of Apply Pay customers - and NFC customers using other smartphones if that occurs - then they will get pressured strongly to accept Apple Pay.
The key with Apple Pay is that merchants to accept Apple Pay get the LOWEST CREDIT CARD FEE for the transaction - the same as if the customer used a credit card in person.
So there should be little resistance from merchants to accept Apple Pay since it won't cost them more.
The only resistance comes from merchants who want to create their own credit payment system - like Walmart, Best Buy, and Home Depot. This is their ulterior motive. They want to replace the credit card companies to keep the credit card transaction fee for themselves. For businesses with slim margins - like Walmart and Best Buy - this 1 to 3% they pay in credit card transaction fees is a huge cut of their profit. This is why they want to create something other than credit cards and Apple Pay for payment.
I think most people are getting ahead of themselves in terms of their expectations for ApplePay in 2014-15.
Consider that it will only work with iPhone 6/6+ when launched, and that too only in the US. That's no more than 15M - 20M ApplePay-enabled devices, max, before the end of this year. Perhaps with AppleWatch early next year, there'll be a few million more.
It'll take a couple of more upgrade cycles, and a larger global rollout, for it to really move the needle in retail. In other words, it'll take a couple of years for ApplePay to become big, but it will become big.
I predict 2016 will be the boom year for ApplePay, when it will become universal. I can see why some retailers are adopting a wait-and-see attitude now.
Not all Chip&Sign Card Terminals are NFC terminals. But ALL merchants are being forced to buy them in 2015. This will cost them millions or billions of dollars to do.
So if merchants are SMART and don't want to buy the expensive Chip&Sign Card Terminals a second time to get NFC functionality, then they will chose the model with NFC functionality even if they won't accept NFC payments.
Therefore, over time with large numbers of Apply Pay customers - and NFC customers using other smartphones if that occurs - then they will get pressured strongly to accept Apple Pay.
The key with Apple Pay is that merchants to accept Apple Pay get the LOWEST CREDIT CARD FEE for the transaction - the same as if the customer used a credit card in person.
So there should be little resistance from merchants to accept Apple Pay since it won't cost them more.
The only resistance comes from merchants who want to create their own credit payment system - like Walmart, Best Buy, and Home Depot. This is their ulterior motive. They want to replace the credit card companies to keep the credit card transaction fee for themselves. For businesses with slim margins - like Walmart and Best Buy - this 1 to 3% they pay in credit card transaction fees is a huge cut of their profit. This is why they want to create something other than credit cards and Apple Pay for payment.
I could be wrong but I think the terminals that accept chase blink are also nfc enabled due to chase cards using nfc. Some chase cards have nfc and some have rfid.
[@]cakra[/@], why are you posted screenshots of things everyone here knew about, except you. No need to prove to us that you finally looked up ?Pay, just apologize and move on.
Oh please. If you actually look at the newest POS terminals that are available from processors, the majority of them ALREADY support contactless payments (NFC).
No manufacturer of a terminal is going to be stupid enough to continue making new terminals that support chip/PIN, but ignore NFC. Basically, merchants will gain NFC capability in their terminals even if they decide (for whatever reason) to not implement it.
Nobody is going to have to "pay more" to get NFC just like I don't have to "pay more" to get Bluetooth in my phone.
Please yourself. Simple fact is, they do continue to make and support a variety of terminals.
The simple fact is that a Chip & PIN terminal with NFC WILL COST MORE and WILL COST MORE TO INTEGRATE than just Chip & PIN. So - why should a store spend more?
Here's a quick math calculation:
- There are 1801 Target stores in the US (http://pressroom.target.com/corporate)
- Assume each terminal costs $50.00 more with NFC over just Chip & PIN (that's being conservative)
- The Target stores in my area all have over 22 cash registers, but lets drop the average per store to 10
- 10 * 1801 * $50 = $900,500 just for the hardware to implement, not counting the system integration, additional staff training, and documentation.
That's a lot of money to spend on something where there is no clear winner, yet. These things have about a 5-year lifespan at best, so expect stores to upgrade when they see a clear path and when their terminals are due for a refresh. I don't see of lot of them doing that when the move forward with their Chip & PIN rollouts.
Not to worry about Sears and Kmart. Those derelict Sears Holding businesses will be bankrupt by the new year and finally sink from view forever in not much more than a year or two afterwards.
As for Best Buy, remember Circuit City? How about Tweeter, Federated, Highlands, The Wiz, Crazy Eddie, CompUSA, Silo, Highland, Fretter and many, many more. Get ready to throw BB and Radio Shack on the heap.
Guys that can barely pay the light bill will drag their feet on spending for NFC that incorporates Apple Pay. In the coming months that'll be a sure signal to customers that they're shopping at a Dead Man Walking.
Your comments about Sears are interesting ...
The credit card I use most is Discover -- minimum 2% cashback on everything, pay balance every month, no charges or fees, 1 month float, releif in case of incorrect/invalid charges ...
The Discover Card is a credit card, issued primarily in the United States. It was announced by Sears in 1985 and was introduced nationwide the following year. Discover was part of Dean Witter, and then Morgan Stanley, until 2007, when Discover Financial Services became an independent company. Novus, a major processing center, was once partners with the company. The Novus logo was retired, replaced by the Discover Network logo.
There will be problems with this service when it first starts up, that is guaranteed. Every little bug and tech issue will make the news in big headlines and Google and Samsung will charge to the rescue with teams of internet trolls who will swamp the forums with snarky comments and the typical Apple bashing that we all expect. But in the end, Apple will make it work and the way you pay for your junk will radicallychange for the better.
As a merchant, however, I would be concerned about a system that is clearly proprietary to Apple devices. Lest we forget, Apple has a minority market share in the smart phone space. What of all the Android, Windows Phone, Blackberry, and other devices out there? Does Apple have plans to open up their system to any platform? Until that question begins to get some answers, I would probably hold out too.
I'm sure many others have already answered you. This is not a proprietary payment _process_. It's leveraging industry-standard protocols that raise the bar of security. Yes, the device that holds the information (iPhone and iPad) is unique to Apple, but the process of how payment credentials are passed between that device, the merchant and the card card processor is not proprietary to Apple.
ApplePay is simply raising the bar of security through unique one-time card numbers generated at the time of purchase and as well as complete anonymity from end-to-end, plus the entire payment process executes faster. That's good for consumers and merchants. It is not something that Apple invented, but Apple is the first to fully take advantage of it and "do it right". Expect competitors to get their own systems in place in the coming years.
Comments
I have faith that humanity doesn't want to remain ignorant.
I have faith that humanity doesn't want to remain ignorant.
I lost that faith a long time ago, but I guess it's good that some people are still optimistic.
I think we're all well aware of that fact, but I am optimistic that you'll see the light once again.
When Apple pay launch in EU that is a 730+ Millions population served because all merchants accept chipped cards and those terminals are NFC since 2 years at least. As it is the banks who own the terminals here (and lease it), the terminals are replaced on a 3 year cycle maximum, because if they are not up to date the banks are liable. About the same in most of Asia. In Australia non-chip cards are not even still accepted.
USA is the oddball here, still using a 20 years outdated tech.
It will be an huge success everywhere else, and even in USA merchants will likely change their stance quickly.
As far as I am concerned, that works very well. I usually upgrade my iPhone every two years. Even with the iPhone 6 and the iPhone 6+, my preference is for a phone with the form factor of the iPhone 5s. By that time, Apple should be out with the model in a similar size that incorporates Apple Pay, and there will be fairly wide acceptance across the retail community. Those who expect to be using it all the time in February are bound to be disappointed.
Apple Pay will become commonplace in due time. Go to the bathroom as usual. No need to squeeze your wienie and try to wait it out.
Excellent! Incorporate Apple Map ApplePay locations and iBeacons ...
Are all chip&sign card terminals also NFC terminals? My understanding is they aren't.
Not all Chip&Sign Card Terminals are NFC terminals. But ALL merchants are being forced to buy them in 2015. This will cost them millions or billions of dollars to do.
So if merchants are SMART and don't want to buy the expensive Chip&Sign Card Terminals a second time to get NFC functionality, then they will chose the model with NFC functionality even if they won't accept NFC payments.
Therefore, over time with large numbers of Apply Pay customers - and NFC customers using other smartphones if that occurs - then they will get pressured strongly to accept Apple Pay.
The key with Apple Pay is that merchants to accept Apple Pay get the LOWEST CREDIT CARD FEE for the transaction - the same as if the customer used a credit card in person.
So there should be little resistance from merchants to accept Apple Pay since it won't cost them more.
The only resistance comes from merchants who want to create their own credit payment system - like Walmart, Best Buy, and Home Depot. This is their ulterior motive. They want to replace the credit card companies to keep the credit card transaction fee for themselves. For businesses with slim margins - like Walmart and Best Buy - this 1 to 3% they pay in credit card transaction fees is a huge cut of their profit. This is why they want to create something other than credit cards and Apple Pay for payment.
I think most people are getting ahead of themselves in terms of their expectations for ApplePay in 2014-15.
Consider that it will only work with iPhone 6/6+ when launched, and that too only in the US. That's no more than 15M - 20M ApplePay-enabled devices, max, before the end of this year. Perhaps with AppleWatch early next year, there'll be a few million more.
It'll take a couple of more upgrade cycles, and a larger global rollout, for it to really move the needle in retail. In other words, it'll take a couple of years for ApplePay to become big, but it will become big.
I predict 2016 will be the boom year for ApplePay, when it will become universal. I can see why some retailers are adopting a wait-and-see attitude now.
it's all documented on their site and the launch event video. go to their website and educate yourself on the point.
/s
Not all Chip&Sign Card Terminals are NFC terminals. But ALL merchants are being forced to buy them in 2015. This will cost them millions or billions of dollars to do.
So if merchants are SMART and don't want to buy the expensive Chip&Sign Card Terminals a second time to get NFC functionality, then they will chose the model with NFC functionality even if they won't accept NFC payments.
Therefore, over time with large numbers of Apply Pay customers - and NFC customers using other smartphones if that occurs - then they will get pressured strongly to accept Apple Pay.
The key with Apple Pay is that merchants to accept Apple Pay get the LOWEST CREDIT CARD FEE for the transaction - the same as if the customer used a credit card in person.
So there should be little resistance from merchants to accept Apple Pay since it won't cost them more.
The only resistance comes from merchants who want to create their own credit payment system - like Walmart, Best Buy, and Home Depot. This is their ulterior motive. They want to replace the credit card companies to keep the credit card transaction fee for themselves. For businesses with slim margins - like Walmart and Best Buy - this 1 to 3% they pay in credit card transaction fees is a huge cut of their profit. This is why they want to create something other than credit cards and Apple Pay for payment.
I could be wrong but I think the terminals that accept chase blink are also nfc enabled due to chase cards using nfc. Some chase cards have nfc and some have rfid.
I'm pretty sure we've already hit that number and there is over 2.5 months to go in the year.
Please yourself. Simple fact is, they do continue to make and support a variety of terminals.
The simple fact is that a Chip & PIN terminal with NFC WILL COST MORE and WILL COST MORE TO INTEGRATE than just Chip & PIN. So - why should a store spend more?
Here's a quick math calculation:
- There are 1801 Target stores in the US (http://pressroom.target.com/corporate)
- Assume each terminal costs $50.00 more with NFC over just Chip & PIN (that's being conservative)
- The Target stores in my area all have over 22 cash registers, but lets drop the average per store to 10
- 10 * 1801 * $50 = $900,500 just for the hardware to implement, not counting the system integration, additional staff training, and documentation.
That's a lot of money to spend on something where there is no clear winner, yet. These things have about a 5-year lifespan at best, so expect stores to upgrade when they see a clear path and when their terminals are due for a refresh. I don't see of lot of them doing that when the move forward with their Chip & PIN rollouts.
That's my opinion, and you're entitled to yours.
Your comments about Sears are interesting ...
The credit card I use most is Discover -- minimum 2% cashback on everything, pay balance every month, no charges or fees, 1 month float, releif in case of incorrect/invalid charges ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discover_Card
Apple Pay is not currently supported by Discover -- though others have posted that they are making noises as if they will support it.
I certainly hope they do!
There will be problems with this service when it first starts up, that is guaranteed. Every little bug and tech issue will make the news in big headlines and Google and Samsung will charge to the rescue with teams of internet trolls who will swamp the forums with snarky comments and the typical Apple bashing that we all expect. But in the end, Apple will make it work and the way you pay for your junk will radically change for the better.
As a merchant, however, I would be concerned about a system that is clearly proprietary to Apple devices. Lest we forget, Apple has a minority market share in the smart phone space. What of all the Android, Windows Phone, Blackberry, and other devices out there? Does Apple have plans to open up their system to any platform? Until that question begins to get some answers, I would probably hold out too.
I'm sure many others have already answered you. This is not a proprietary payment _process_. It's leveraging industry-standard protocols that raise the bar of security. Yes, the device that holds the information (iPhone and iPad) is unique to Apple, but the process of how payment credentials are passed between that device, the merchant and the card card processor is not proprietary to Apple.
ApplePay is simply raising the bar of security through unique one-time card numbers generated at the time of purchase and as well as complete anonymity from end-to-end, plus the entire payment process executes faster. That's good for consumers and merchants. It is not something that Apple invented, but Apple is the first to fully take advantage of it and "do it right". Expect competitors to get their own systems in place in the coming years.