Major retailers show unwillingness to adopt Apple Pay ahead of expected launch

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  • Reply 361 of 418
    ibeam wrote: »
    Yes there is a protocol for adding money to an iTunes account (admittedly not to a cc) -- by redeeming an iTunes Gift Card.
    Sorry Dick but none of that makes any sense. I am very familiar with how merchant accounts work and simply having a CC  registered with iTunes will not allow you accept payments.

    Didn't say it did ... but it could -- if the banks and Apple allowed it!

    The short explanation is a business applies for a merchant account and if qualified is allowed to accept payments provided they also qualify for a secure certificate or a physical present payment terminal. The money goes from the customer's bank through the merchant gateway directly into the commercial bank account. You cannot transfer money into a personal bank account. A mom n' pop operation will never be able to use their iTunes account to receive payments. Never.

    You'll never be able to put a computer in your pocket! Never! ... unless ...
  • Reply 362 of 418
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,023member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

     

    The only trouble is, acceptance of AMEX in Europe and Asia can be hit-or-miss.




    This was legitimate concern about twenty years ago. Today, not really. Then again, I'm probably staying in nicer hotels, dining at better restaurants, shopping at fancier stores. :D

     

    My last couple of international trips, I don't remember ever getting my AMEX turned down. In fact, in all of my credit card transactions in the past 2-3 years I think one merchant said they didn't accept AMEX, but I don't remember who or where it was. Probably a tiny mom-and-pop operation, not a higher-end merchant.

  • Reply 363 of 418
    sirlance99 wrote: »
    ibeam wrote: »
    No there is no protocol for adding money to a credit card unless it is a refund. A credit card cannot accept payments. Eventually I see Apple getting rid of all those credit cards and only accepting ?Pay, I definitely do not see them offering merchant accounts except in the case of App Store developers.

    Apple will not for the long, long foreseeable future go all in with only Apple Pay. They would miss out on a ton of sales. There are some people that will refuse to use NFC payments no matter how much better it is.

    I don't understand what you're trying to say -- Nothing in Apple Pay prevents using ny other payment method ...

    The advantagesm of Apple Pay will drive its acceptance.
  • Reply 364 of 418
    I still prefer handing cloth to a guy and getting cloth and metal back to checks and digital payments. I love the idea and implementation of Apple Pay, but it’ll be a while before I feel safe using it.

    Ha!

    You might change your mind if you had an experience like this:

    When I first went to work for IBM in 1964 -- it was in Las Vegas, Nevada.

    There were slot machines everywhere -- restaurants, stores, coffee shops, supermarkets, carwashes, gas stations ...

    When you bought anything they'd give you change in silver dollars instead of bills.

    It was a real PITA, because you'd have to make a trip to the bank to exchange the silver dollar for bills, or conveniently (for the merchants) just drop them into a slot machine!

    Choosing neither, you could walk around with an ever-increasing horde of silver dollars.

    Now, a silver dollar weighs, roughly an ounce -- and 16 of these make a pound.

    After a while, these would begin to weigh you down, so you'd try to distribute them evenly among your pockets. If you were wearing loose sorts with big deep pockets, they'd tend to clang together -- endangering your manhood or, at best, temporarily raising the pitch of your voice. Working for IBM, we wore suits with tighter pockets .. When you had a lot of silver on board, you'd have trouble keeping your pants up (especially if you wore suspenders).

    You had to be there ...

    Oh, there are worse things than silver dollars....

    The place I worked in 1982 or 3, they put a new change machine in the lunchroom. If you put in a five, it would give you four quarters and four Susan B. Anthony dollars. Try to spend those anyplace else! They'd look at you like you just took a crap on the counter. Not to mention the teenage salesgirls who wouldn't even remember what they were.
  • Reply 365 of 418
    ibeamibeam Posts: 322member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mpantone View Post

     



    This was legitimate concern about twenty years ago. Today, not really. Then again, I'm probably staying in nicer hotels, dining at better restaurants, shopping at fancier stores. :D

     

    My last couple of international trips, I don't remember ever getting my AMEX turned down. In fact, in all of my credit card transactions in the past 2-3 years I think one merchant said they didn't accept AMEX, but I don't remember who or where it was. Probably a tiny mom-and-pop operation, not a higher-end merchant.


    One thing to keep in mind when traveling to Europe, if you are planning to use your US based ATM card, make sure your PIN does not start with a zero. It doesn't work in Europe for some reason. I found that out the hard way.

  • Reply 366 of 418
    Ha!

    In the last few days, we've seen in AI threads: Bo Dereck, Lil Abner Women, Sears catalog womens undergarment pages ...

    Continuing that trend:

    1000


    Here, beside his friend, is my OSH'By-Gosh Beaver ...

    I use it in bed to prop up my iPad 4 at just the right angle (he has a stiff tail) -- while lying on my side in bed, head on a pillow ... Works great.


    :???:

    Glad to know that you still have a use for beaver at your age.

    I vaguely remember ... er, ah ... what were we discussing ...

    Oh, yeah ... they called me "Hangers" in my table shuffleboard days ...
  • Reply 367 of 418
    ibeam wrote: »
    sirlance99 wrote: »
    Apple will not for the long, long foreseeable future go all in with only Apple Pay. They would miss out on a ton of sales. There are some people that will refuse to use NFC payments no matter how much better it is.
    Yeah maybe but you know there is going to be an online ?Pay too not just NFC. We don't know much about it yet but remember ?Pay is just a proxy for an actual credit card. I just think they would rather not be storing all those cards.

    Online (web) ?Pay is the elephant in the room ...

    Walmart, BB, Sears, Amazon and others will have no choice but to accept ?Pay for online sales ...

    And the buyer, customer, will gladly purge all their online shopping sites (including iTunes) of cc data.

    Another thing ... I use my Discover Card for most everything -- especially online purchases. My Discover cc has been compromised 3 times this year -- resulting in issuance of a new card. Sadly, I had a few recurring bills, scheduled for autopay using discover. I couldn't/didn't react fast enough to the compromises/card invalidation/reissue -- and incurred about $75 in charges for denied auto payments from the payee (not Discover).

    This defeats the whole purpose of Discover -- pay in full -- 2% minimum cashback -- 1 month float -- no interest charges or fees!

    Now, with ?Pay, I should be able to setup autopay without the fear of compromise ... Looking forward to the convenience.
  • Reply 368 of 418
    I still prefer handing cloth to a guy and getting cloth and metal back to checks and digital payments. I love the idea and implementation of Apple Pay, but it’ll be a while before I feel safe using it.

    Ha!

    You might change your mind if you had an experience like this:

    When I first went to work for IBM in 1964 -- it was in Las Vegas, Nevada.

    There were slot machines everywhere -- restaurants, stores, coffee shops, supermarkets, carwashes, gas stations ...

    When you bought anything they'd give you change in silver dollars instead of bills.

    It was a real PITA, because you'd have to make a trip to the bank to exchange the silver dollar for bills, or conveniently (for the merchants) just drop them into a slot machine!

    Choosing neither, you could walk around with an ever-increasing horde of silver dollars.

    Now, a silver dollar weighs, roughly an ounce -- and 16 of these make a pound.

    After a while, these would begin to weigh you down, so you'd try to distribute them evenly among your pockets. If you were wearing loose sorts with big deep pockets, they'd tend to clang together -- endangering your manhood or, at best, temporarily raising the pitch of your voice. Working for IBM, we wore suits with tighter pockets .. When you had a lot of silver on board, you'd have trouble keeping your pants up (especially if you wore suspenders).

    You had to be there ...

    Oh, there are worse things than silver dollars....

    The place I worked in 1982 or 3, they put a new change machine in the lunchroom. If you put in a five, it would give you four quarters and four Susan B. Anthony dollars. Try to spend those anyplace else! They'd look at you like you just took a crap on the counter. Not to mention the teenage salesgirls who wouldn't even remember what they were.

    I always wondered what would happen if you put a twenty into one of those $5 machines -- bust wasn't brave [dumb] enough to try!
  • Reply 369 of 418
    I use a BookBook for my 5; you might like that.
    I've seen those -- they're quite nice.

    I only use sleeve cases, since I like the touch and feel of the device when I use it. Also, It's so beautiful, that I like to see it the way it designed to be seen! (Not at all plugging these guys at all, even though I've been using their cases for a while, but this is the closest to a possible solution that I've seen: http://www.senacases.com/product/burnished-magia-wallet-iphone-6/).

    Fair enough. I used to use a Sena case for the same reason you described. Even now, I often take it out of the BookBook to use it naked. The good thing with the BookBook is that it's very easy to take in and out of the case, yet still holds it securely. There's room for several cards and a few notes, so I don't need to carry a wallet.
  • Reply 370 of 418
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carson O'Genic View Post

     



    Well, maybe I'm wrong then.  I though the CC company simply declined the payment and left the merchant on the hook.  Well, if your right, then it explains the complete lack of effort given by merchants to verify your ID when using a CC.




    Here is the problem with most of the comments here.  The merchants Target and Home Depot ARE RESPONSIBLE!  They are because it was not credit cards that were hacked it was in both cases POS system malware (point of sale system malware).  In other words the stores own point of sale system was hacked and anyone sliding a debit card got there number recorded and there expiration date and pin number in some cases and then they were given to the malware and in turn the hackers.  This makes the retailers responcible, it was there system that was compromised and in some cases banks too because some retailers are using pos terminals provided to them from the banks.  The reason ?Pay is great for the retailers and the banks is because your debit/credit card number expiration date,  pin, and name is never given to the POS terminal.  The POS terminal with ?Pay gets a one time use number that is encrypted and once used is useless to thieves.  It is used at the time of sale.  Hence your Debit/Credit Card info never gets on there POS server ever.  This is a huge security increase both for the retailer and the bank and vastly reduces the chance of this type of hacking in the future because there are no Debit/Credit numbers there to hack. everything is tokenized.  I for one once I get an ?Pay enabled device with avoid using anyone that does not acept it for the reasons I gave above.  I have a vested personal interest in this as my debit card was compromised in both the target and home depot debacles.

     

    Also one other bit of info.  Because a lot of retailers use bank POS systems the banks will be upgrading them not the retailers.  Banks have a vested interest to reduce fraud because it costs them billions.  That is why the banks are so on board with this.   Walmart does not want to do this because there working on there own point of sale system that bypasses the banks and allows them to keep the entire transaction fee for themselves.  Believe me Walmart is in it for there own monetary gain and nothing else.  Best Buy is also participating in the system Walmart is proposing.  

  • Reply 371 of 418
    mpantone wrote: »


    This was legitimate concern about twenty years ago. Today, not really. Then again, I'm probably staying in nicer hotels, dining at better restaurants, shopping at fancier stores. :D

    My last couple of international trips, I don't remember ever getting my AMEX turned down. In fact, in all of my credit card transactions in the past 2-3 years I think one merchant said they didn't accept AMEX, but I don't remember who or where it was. Probably a tiny mom-and-pop operation, not a higher-end merchant.

    Glad your experience is different. I was in France this summer, vacationing with the family in Provence. We drove around quote a bit. It was quite unbelievable, the number of places that would not accept Amex.

    Of course, it's completely useless in train stations, as you probably know (even though the newer Amex cards have a chip, they are not chip and pin).
  • Reply 372 of 418
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post





    I suspect that some hesitation is the loss of transaction information. With the swipe cards they know who you are. Pretty sure with Apple pay they won't.



    They won't.  None of your personal data is given to the POS system in the store.  All they get is a tokenized one time use number.  They don't know who you are what you spent, any debit card info or any personal info.  During the keynote for the iPhone 6 Eddy Cue made this extremely clear in his presentation.

  • Reply 373 of 418
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

     

     

    Walmart sells a lot of iPhones with plans. A huge number of Apple device owners shop there.

     

    It would cost a tremendous amount of money to change the hardware at every register in every store in the list above. There is just very very little incentive to do it.




    They don't have a choice, because in 2015 it will become law that any retailer that does not support an nfc terminal pay system in there stores will be responsible for the fraud that happens to there POS systems.  That incentive enough?  At this point 40 million Target debit cards compromised and 57 million at Home Depot are huge incentives when they become responsible for the compromised cards.

  • Reply 374 of 418
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    mechanic wrote: »

    They won't.  None of your personal data is given to the POS system in the store.  All they get is a tokenized one time use number.  They don't know who you are what you spent, any debit card info or any personal info.  During the keynote for the iPhone 6 Eddy Cue made this extremely clear in his presentation.
    Will iBeacon have any uses with Apple Pay?
  • Reply 375 of 418
    ibeamibeam Posts: 322member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    Glad your experience is different. I was in France this summer, vacationing with the family in Provence. We drove around quote a bit. It was quite unbelievable, the number of places that would not accept Amex.



    Of course, it's completely useless in train stations, as you probably know (even though the newer Amex cards have a chip, they are not chip and pin).

    Your point is well noted. In my experience I have mostly stayed within the high end metropolitan areas and have experienced no issues with AMEX, however once you venture into the countryside I can understand the lack of support. My point has been that it is an important card to own even if it is not universally accepted at retail locations. The emergency services are the most important features they offer in my opinion. For $400 per year it is some of the best insurance you can buy.

  • Reply 376 of 418
    ingsocingsoc Posts: 212member

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post





    Agree. These stores that are unwilling to accept ApplePay are saying this to their customers:



    WE DON'T CARE about YOUR PRIVACY or GETTING YOUR IDENTITY STOLEN.



    Well fuk them. I'm going to shop somewhere else than.

     

    Wow. No, they are not saying this to their customers at all. It's a much, much bigger question than that - as others have pointed out, the whole question revolves around adoption of NFC payment systems generally.

     

    Here in Australia, many retailers have adopted NFC payment terminals - at first it was very minimal, but now we're seeing very rapid adoption. This is great, because it means that if and when Apple Pay is introduced here, it should immediately be very usable for most Apple customers.

     

    The U.S. is generally very far behind in this field, I think. When I was there a few years ago, I noticed that the payment systems were fairly antiquated (even down to the fact that nobody seems to use EFT, and there's still so much reliance on cheques (or, "checks").

     

    So the question is much broader than just retailers adopting Apple Pay specifically.

     

    Also, much of this is going to be driven by consumer demand too. As more and more retailers open up to NFC, more consumers will be asking (and expecting) to see it supported.

  • Reply 377 of 418
    ibeam wrote: »
    For $400 per year it is some of the best insurance you can buy.

    It costs you only $400 per year?
  • Reply 378 of 418
    ibeamibeam Posts: 322member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    It costs you only $400 per year?

     I don't know, the company pays, member since 1980 is printed on my card

     

    I look at the invoices and $400 is about what we pat for gold cards

  • Reply 379 of 418
    It would be unreasonable to expect all merchants to hop on board before Apple Pay is even released.

    What's amazing is how successful apple has already been in lining up support from major players in the payments game (banks and credit card companies).

    Merchants will come around.
  • Reply 380 of 418
    mechanic wrote: »

    They don't have a choice, because in 2015 it will become law that any retailer that does not support an nfc terminal pay system in there stores will be responsible for the fraud that happens to there POS systems.  That incentive enough?  At this point 40 million Target debit cards compromised and 57 million at Home Depot are huge incentives when they become responsible for the compromised cards.

    I've read that this is true of chipped cards. The card companies are switching to chips, and merchants who don't accept them will be responsible for fraud.

    Can you link me to any NFC law? Many retailers will piggy back NFC with the chip, but I have heard nothing of legislation requiring NFC. I haven't even seen any contractual requirements for NFC from the banks.
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