But you just chastised me in another post that the person ordered to unlock their phone could simply claim a fifth amendment against self incrimination and not provide the passcode. So you CAN be jailed for exercising their rights? So which is it?
it's pretty simple. you can be ordered to do something by a court. you don't *have* to do it, but then you get to go to jail instead until you or your counsel can show why you shouldn't have it. thats it. those are the options. thats worked fine for a long time, and i don't see a reason to change it.
I never said the UK was any better, as it wasn't the topic of the article. But you knew that, of course, and just wanted to get your little jab in. Well done.
when you use hyperbole to make your own bogus point (i assure you, we americans have not forgotten what liberty is -- we fight for it within our borders more than you do in yours), you open yourself up to hypocracy criticism.
Ruby Ridge, Waco, Wen Ho Lee, Steven Hatfill, Zacarias Moussaoui, Edward Snowden; the only thing the FBI ever got right is dropping and fumbling the ball.
Aren't there numerous companies that claim to be able to instantly hack any cell phone made? They demonstrate their programs at military defense and police equipment expos. No cell phone is safe from them. So why is this FBI director whining about this? Doesn't he have access to all of these companies knocking on his door trying to sell their services to him and the rest of the government?
What an idiotic argument to compare a vehicle or apartment to a cell phone. Vehicles and apartments can hold physical evidence, cell phones contain intangible ideas and discussions.
As previously suggested, this would be no different than making everyone wear a microphone and saying, "We'll record everything you say but we PROMISE to only listen to it if we think we have a good enough reason to. Just trust us."
And, if that doesn't convince people, make it about helping the children. Oh wait...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianCPA
What an idiotic argument to compare a vehicle or apartment to a cell phone. Vehicles and apartments can hold physical evidence, cell phones contain intangible ideas and discussions.
As previously suggested, this would be no different than making everyone wear a microphone and saying, "We'll record everything you say but we PROMISE to only listen to it if we think we have a good enough reason to. Just trust us."
And, if that doesn't convince people, make it about helping the children. Oh wait...
Cell phones contain more than that. Think videos, pictures, texts, emails, location and call data - there's a lot of digitized physical evidence. If a kidnapper had your family and the police caught the guy and could trace his steps and find your family if they could unlock his phone would you want the FBI to have the legal authority to do so? Of course.
I'm no fan of Bush and Obama's illegal spying, but locking out evidence that, if obtained legally (real legally, not Obama's idea of "legal"), could save lives and put evil men in jail, then I'm all for it.
The logical conclusion of his argument is to make it mandatory for everyone to wear microphones and video cameras 24 hours a day wherever they are, so that the government can check that they're not terrorists or other criminals.
I wouldn't be surprised to see him complaining that the government has no access to our thoughts.
Hello 1984.
The USA has forgotten what liberty is.
Exactly.
Look into the founding of the FBI, the CIA, and police forces. When. Why. By who. It's interesting and scary to see how much paranoid insanity was always at the base foundation of what Americans think of as normal government agencies. Paranoia was (and still is) institutional in most of these agencies from day one.
God forbid we have any personal privacy in America!
"Americans having any control over their privacy should be illegal!" - FBI Director James Comey
Does this sound like the America we grew up in, people?? These people are SYSTEMATICALLY stomping on and eliminating our Constitutional rights, little by little.
Hey smart*ss... guess what? I'm an American and I can write or say whatever the f**k I want. Got that? Good. Now, I know you *think* you rule the roost around here on these forums, but reality is... you don't. Telling me what I should and shouldn't say is just another example of my main point - only you don't have any power over me and never will. Have you ever heard of a paraphrase? I'm thinking you haven't.
Maybe you should join the FBI. I bet they like your type around there. Or better yet, just leave my posts alone or I'm going to show you just how stupid you *really* are in front of all of your little minions. There are some people you just shouldn't mess with, man. I'm one of them.
Good thing people would never consider remaining silent. That would put them...well...above the law!
Seriuosly, where does this tool come up with his sense of entitlement to everyone's data? He can't compel anyone to testify today, and the same will be true tomorrow.
Hey smart*ss... guess what? I'm an American and I can write or say whatever the f**k I want. Got that? Good. Now, I know you *think* you rule the roost around here on these forums, but reality is... you don't. Telling me what I should and shouldn't say is just another example of my main point - only you don't have any power over me and never will. Have you ever heard of a paraphrase? I'm thinking you haven't.
Maybe you should join the FBI. I bet they like your type around there. Or better yet, just leave my posts alone or I'm going to show you just how stupid you *really* are in front of all of your little minions. There are some people you just shouldn't mess with, man. I'm one of them.
Are you serious? Go shout to yourself in your own personal discussion forum. This one is for people to talk like the other posters are people, not just text on a wall.
Oh, and Americans can't do or say whatever they want, which is the heart of the discussion here. That's the whole point of being a nation. There is some kind of order the other people agree to follow so that society can be a beneficial thing.
Being able to commit a crime shouldn't come down to just being able to do more digital things than the victims.
Are you serious? Go shout to yourself in your own personal discussion forum. This one is for people to talk like the other posters are people, not just text on a wall.
Oh, and American's can't do or say whatever they want, which is the heart of the discussion here. That's the whole point of being a nation. There is some kind of order the other people agree to follow so that society can be a beneficial thing.
Being able to commit a crime shouldn't come down to just being able to do more digital things than the victims.
I was fine until someone tried to tell me what I should and shouldn't write. Going by your assessment, what I write should be respected (or at least intelligently pondered), because that would be treating me like a *person* and "not just text on a wall". So, why wasn't I offered that level of respect from the beginning?
I have all of the respect in the world for others... until they trample upon my rights or try to control me (or what I say). Even making a suggestion that what I said was somehow "wrong" was overstepping that boundary. That's where I draw the line and yes, I can be a nasty mother whenever I feel either of those things have been violated.
I'm sorry if I missed it, but where is the forum rule that says I can't paraphrase someone without being chastised or "corrected"???
The logical conclusion of his argument is to make it mandatory for everyone to wear microphones and video cameras 24 hours a day wherever they are, so that the government can check that they're not terrorists or other criminals.
I wouldn't be surprised to see him complaining that the government has no access to our thoughts.
Hello 1984.
The USA has forgotten what liberty is.
Google Self-Glass!
You make a good point...
Although I would like to just mention that 1984 was written by your countryman, I believe?
And I don't positively know, but I suspect London might still lead any major US city in CCTV surveillance...?
Comments
Yeah, all this dancing around the truth with clever little gotcha’s.
I don't consider that 9-0 SCOTUS ruling a "clever little gotcha".
Yes, even bad guys have rights. That's what makes them "rights". Sorry if this makes your job harder, but it's now settled law.
But you just chastised me in another post that the person ordered to unlock their phone could simply claim a fifth amendment against self incrimination and not provide the passcode. So you CAN be jailed for exercising their rights? So which is it?
it's pretty simple. you can be ordered to do something by a court. you don't *have* to do it, but then you get to go to jail instead until you or your counsel can show why you shouldn't have it. thats it. those are the options. thats worked fine for a long time, and i don't see a reason to change it.
I never said the UK was any better, as it wasn't the topic of the article. But you knew that, of course, and just wanted to get your little jab in. Well done.
when you use hyperbole to make your own bogus point (i assure you, we americans have not forgotten what liberty is -- we fight for it within our borders more than you do in yours), you open yourself up to hypocracy criticism.
Aren't there numerous companies that claim to be able to instantly hack any cell phone made? They demonstrate their programs at military defense and police equipment expos. No cell phone is safe from them. So why is this FBI director whining about this? Doesn't he have access to all of these companies knocking on his door trying to sell their services to him and the rest of the government?
but its true -- we have the right not to incriminate ourselves. don't like it, move to Iran or China -- you'll love it there.
here, our minds are our own. the smartphone bears a closer analogy to the mind than it does a trunk or apartment. "smart" = brain = mind.
Not necessarily: http://www.npr.org/2014/10/05/353893046/you-have-the-right-to-remain-silent-or-do-you
Wasn't it the law that put itself above the law?
What an idiotic argument to compare a vehicle or apartment to a cell phone. Vehicles and apartments can hold physical evidence, cell phones contain intangible ideas and discussions.
As previously suggested, this would be no different than making everyone wear a microphone and saying, "We'll record everything you say but we PROMISE to only listen to it if we think we have a good enough reason to. Just trust us."
And, if that doesn't convince people, make it about helping the children. Oh wait...
What an idiotic argument to compare a vehicle or apartment to a cell phone. Vehicles and apartments can hold physical evidence, cell phones contain intangible ideas and discussions.
As previously suggested, this would be no different than making everyone wear a microphone and saying, "We'll record everything you say but we PROMISE to only listen to it if we think we have a good enough reason to. Just trust us."
And, if that doesn't convince people, make it about helping the children. Oh wait...
Cell phones contain more than that. Think videos, pictures, texts, emails, location and call data - there's a lot of digitized physical evidence. If a kidnapper had your family and the police caught the guy and could trace his steps and find your family if they could unlock his phone would you want the FBI to have the legal authority to do so? Of course.
I'm no fan of Bush and Obama's illegal spying, but locking out evidence that, if obtained legally (real legally, not Obama's idea of "legal"), could save lives and put evil men in jail, then I'm all for it.
Exactly.
Look into the founding of the FBI, the CIA, and police forces. When. Why. By who. It's interesting and scary to see how much paranoid insanity was always at the base foundation of what Americans think of as normal government agencies. Paranoia was (and still is) institutional in most of these agencies from day one.
It’s laws all the way down.
"Americans having any control over their privacy should be illegal!" - FBI Director James Comey
Does this sound like the America we grew up in, people?? These people are SYSTEMATICALLY stomping on and eliminating our Constitutional rights, little by little.
WAKE UP and take a stand before it's too late!
I wouldn’t write things as direct quotes unless they can be cited.
Maybe you should join the FBI. I bet they like your type around there. Or better yet, just leave my posts alone or I'm going to show you just how stupid you *really* are in front of all of your little minions. There are some people you just shouldn't mess with, man. I'm one of them.
Good thing people would never consider remaining silent. That would put them...well...above the law!
Seriuosly, where does this tool come up with his sense of entitlement to everyone's data? He can't compel anyone to testify today, and the same will be true tomorrow.
Maybe the BBs was openable by RIM if needed whereas not even Apple can open iPhones data as I understand it... ?
True but .... Shhhh , Rupert Murdock doesn't want his followers to know the truth ...
Hey smart*ss... guess what? I'm an American and I can write or say whatever the f**k I want. Got that? Good. Now, I know you *think* you rule the roost around here on these forums, but reality is... you don't. Telling me what I should and shouldn't say is just another example of my main point - only you don't have any power over me and never will. Have you ever heard of a paraphrase? I'm thinking you haven't.
Maybe you should join the FBI. I bet they like your type around there. Or better yet, just leave my posts alone or I'm going to show you just how stupid you *really* are in front of all of your little minions. There are some people you just shouldn't mess with, man. I'm one of them.
Are you serious? Go shout to yourself in your own personal discussion forum. This one is for people to talk like the other posters are people, not just text on a wall.
Oh, and Americans can't do or say whatever they want, which is the heart of the discussion here. That's the whole point of being a nation. There is some kind of order the other people agree to follow so that society can be a beneficial thing.
Being able to commit a crime shouldn't come down to just being able to do more digital things than the victims.
Good thing people would never consider remaining silent. That would put them...well...above the law!
Not necessarily: http://www.npr.org/2014/10/05/353893046/you-have-the-right-to-remain-silent-or-do-you
Are you serious? Go shout to yourself in your own personal discussion forum. This one is for people to talk like the other posters are people, not just text on a wall.
Oh, and American's can't do or say whatever they want, which is the heart of the discussion here. That's the whole point of being a nation. There is some kind of order the other people agree to follow so that society can be a beneficial thing.
Being able to commit a crime shouldn't come down to just being able to do more digital things than the victims.
I was fine until someone tried to tell me what I should and shouldn't write. Going by your assessment, what I write should be respected (or at least intelligently pondered), because that would be treating me like a *person* and "not just text on a wall". So, why wasn't I offered that level of respect from the beginning?I have all of the respect in the world for others... until they trample upon my rights or try to control me (or what I say). Even making a suggestion that what I said was somehow "wrong" was overstepping that boundary. That's where I draw the line and yes, I can be a nasty mother whenever I feel either of those things have been violated.
I'm sorry if I missed it, but where is the forum rule that says I can't paraphrase someone without being chastised or "corrected"???
James Comey is an ass.
The logical conclusion of his argument is to make it mandatory for everyone to wear microphones and video cameras 24 hours a day wherever they are, so that the government can check that they're not terrorists or other criminals.
I wouldn't be surprised to see him complaining that the government has no access to our thoughts.
Hello 1984.
The USA has forgotten what liberty is.
Google Self-Glass!
You make a good point...
Although I would like to just mention that 1984 was written by your countryman, I believe?
And I don't positively know, but I suspect London might still lead any major US city in CCTV surveillance...?
Otherwise, couldn't agree more -
So, Mr. Pot, regards from Kettle.