"The announcement supposedly came as a surprise to Apple, as well, though later reports showed the Cupertino tech giant tried to assist GT in meeting requirements for a final $139 million payout."
There's nothing inconsistent in Apple being surprised by GTAT's announcement. It's reasonable to think that Apple did try to assist GTAT is meeting the requirements for the final payment, just as it's been reported that Apple didn't make an earlier payment on the originally agreed scheduled and assisted GTAT in getting to that milestone months later, making that payment in May rather than nearer the beginning of the year. It's also reasonable to think that Apple wasn't fully privy to all of the details of GTAT's financial status separate from the $139 million it was expecting but ultimately did not receive from Apple. So it's consistent that Apple knew on the day before the filing that it wasn't going to hand over the final #139 million and was also surprised that the company filed; i.e., that the company, without that final payment was insolvent.
I agree that Apple was surely surprised. While it's true that Apple makes a lot of difficult and even onerous demands of their vendors, the one thing none of them are going to provide or allow is free access to the financials and numbers of the day to day operations. The only thing any company is going to give Apple is highly sanitized and polished statements. The only time a company would give anyone full access is when a takeover/purchase is happening. So yeah Apple was probably surprised. However, we know they had concerns, so on a scale of 1 to 10 the level of surprise might have only been a 5.
I agree that Apple was surely surprised. While it's true that Apple makes a lot of difficult and even onerous demands of their vendors, the one thing none of them are going to provide or allow is free access to the financials and numbers of the day to day operations. The only thing any company is going to give Apple is highly sanitized and polished statements. The only time a company would give anyone full access is when a takeover/purchase is happening. So yeah Apple was probably surprised. However, we know they had concerns, so on a scale of 1 to 10 the level of surprise might have only been a 5.
Agreed. Not a 'How could this be?' surprise. More like a 'Oh, snap!' surprise.
Somewhat ironically Apple tanked the company by withholding $139 million and it can now buy the entire company for that very amount -- A company worth $1.5 Billion 10 days ago.
Sometimes in life, you dump the crazy girlfriend instead of marrying her.
Right now, GT Advanced is the Amanda Bynes of high tech.
I agree that Apple was surely surprised. While it's true that Apple makes a lot of difficult and even onerous demands of their vendors, the one thing none of them are going to provide or allow is free access to the financials and numbers of the day to day operations. The only thing any company is going to give Apple is highly sanitized and polished statements. The only time a company would give anyone full access is when a takeover/purchase is happening. So yeah Apple was probably surprised. However, we know they had concerns, so on a scale of 1 to 10 the level of surprise might have only been a 5.
It makes sense. Though clearly out of their league and possibly incompetent (the stock sell offs making management look worse than incompetent), I cannot help but feel pity more than scorn. The moment they realized they could never deliver the goods they had signed off on life must have taken a seriously nasty turn for these folks. I don't think if it was my company I that had built from the ground up (not sure this applies to the CEO or not) and I had struck the mother load deal with the mighty Apple Inc only for said deal to become the mother of all nightmares, that I would have acted the way the management of GTA appears to have acted, but I am nonetheless very cognizant of the fact that a business owner is never further away from wreck and ruin than one bad decision. (usually followed by several more). My point being that I am sure the GTA management never set out to **** this up, on the contrary, and now that the deal has gone south I am somewhat empathetic. We might be critical and even gleeful but those guys must be having a bummer of a week.
I learned that from watching Adam Carola's latest show, 'To Catch A Contractor.'
It was rampant on those house flipping reality TV shows a few years back. The host would admonish the amateur house flipper who paid their building contractor the entire amount up front and found themselves waiting for them to show up on the first day of the project. Without fail. It's like a rule with contractors.
I think Apple had contingent payments and from the sound of it, Apple paid most of their commitment to GTAT, with only the final payment withheld. And they were willing to help GTAT.
Nice try. Congress will Investigate and expose all of Apple's tricks because they evaded US taxes legally via Bono's Ireland.
Apple has lots of enemies. Be aware.
Every now and then I click on a post titled "user is in your block list" just to see. Then I realize why I blocked the troll in the first place and how stupid their comments really are.
Every now and then I click on a post titled "user is in your block list" just to see. Then I realize why I blocked the troll in the first place and how stupid their comments really are.
You're smarter than I, and less masochistic. I guess it's like a car accident, always have a morbid curiosity about the utter stupidity they will vomit out next.
The government aren't easily fooled, with GT exec's making confidence statements while simultaneously selling stock it will be GT's actions, not so much Apple's, which are going to be highly scrutinised. Overall this seems much larger than a contractual issue, some GT exec's could be up for criminal prosecution.
Nice try. Congress will Investigate and expose all of Apple's tricks because they evaded US taxes legally via Bono's Ireland.
Apple has lots of enemies. Be aware.
Please just do humanity a favour and SHUT THE HELL UP!
GT signed the contract. GT took money and probably pocketed most of it. GT failed to meet their obligations. GT took their investors money. GT files for bankruptcy.
Some stinks to high heavens.
If Apple can prove that these guys received enough money and mismanaged the funds leading to their failure, the bankruptcy will be denied and GT will be forced to meet their obligations or give the moneys back.
Nice try. Congress will Investigate and expose all of Apple's tricks because they evaded US taxes legally via Bono's Ireland.
Apple has lots of enemies. Be aware.
I don't think you understand who is likely to be accused of corruption here.
Also please give the Bono thing a rest. He has only good things to say about you and is upset that your mutual friendship has cooled. Also he doesn't run Ireland.
Somewhat ironically Apple tanked the company by withholding $139 million and it can now buy the entire company for that very amount -- A company worth $1.5 Billion 10 days ago.
I am not sure apple want them. What could have gone wrong in deal? Most likely is that they could not meet one or several of apples requirement - production costs, speed or quality - for Apple's "secret plans".
My bet is that Apple would be looking long and hard at graphene as a possible replacement for saphire before they consider snapping up this company.
Of course this is a wild guess as I do not know what Apple have planned, but graphene is a very interesting product that can be used to detect infrared, which opens up a world of possibilities in terms of health, imaging and motion detection.
This could be a case of wrongly implementing the US based production mantra so many of the commenters here are supporting. I hope it is now very clear to Apple that patriotism should not be a part of contract negotiations.
It was rampant on those house flipping reality TV shows a few years back. The host would admonish the amateur house flipper who paid their building contractor the entire amount up front and found themselves waiting for them to show up on the first day of the project. Without fail. It's like a rule with contractors.
I think Apple had contingent payments and from the sound of it, Apple paid most of their commitment to GTAT, with only the final payment withheld. And they were willing to help GTAT.
Can't believe contractors take the money and don't show up for work.. I guess that's human nature at work. Someone needs to remind those people that they're stealing thousands of dollars. And if they're okay with that, why don't they just go rob somebody? What's the difference in the end? Go find an old lady walking down a back alley and take all her money.
What "tricks"? Do you understand the concept of NDAs, and confidentiality agreements in contracts? Or do you believe every detail of every business contract should be public knowledge? I'm assuming you meant to say "Beware"? It's ok, it's clear english isn't your first language (even though it is.) "Bono's Ireland"? Christ, you're pathetic.
He meant the so called "Double Irish" often in a form called a "Dutch Sandwich". Has nothing to do with GTAT and NDAs as you noted correctly.
A "Double Irish" is a legal way for companies to avoid income taxes in the EU or even export profit income tax free outside of the EU, usually with the goal of getting cash it into the US without paying any taxes at all.
And you can see from company filings who owns Double Irish setups (unless they are trying to reduce visibility of subsidiaries on purpose). It's a very widely used construct, especially popular among US companies for their EU business.
But not all are exporting profit tax free to off shore holdings. Some keep the money tax-freed in EU bank accounts as is usually better for PR as you can say "we do not have any off-shore holdings". Well, spin it as you want it's still bad.
This legal loop-hole will be closed soon. There is a lot of pressure inside the EU on Ireland for years. Ireland will close this loop-hole and instead will provide even lower company income taxes to have a fairer tax competition between EU countries based on taxation alone.
Pressure form the US also raised as part of dealing with off-shore holdings, as a Double Irish with a Dutch Sandwich over offshore subsidiaries allow money from the EU to get back into the US tax free as well (more involved on doing that once the money is there).
All larger companies use such a or a similar constructs. If not their accountants did a shitty job. As said totally legal and wanted by the Irish this way, so more large companies come to Ireland to do business. And they all came...
Comments
"The announcement supposedly came as a surprise to Apple, as well, though later reports showed the Cupertino tech giant tried to assist GT in meeting requirements for a final $139 million payout."
There's nothing inconsistent in Apple being surprised by GTAT's announcement. It's reasonable to think that Apple did try to assist GTAT is meeting the requirements for the final payment, just as it's been reported that Apple didn't make an earlier payment on the originally agreed scheduled and assisted GTAT in getting to that milestone months later, making that payment in May rather than nearer the beginning of the year. It's also reasonable to think that Apple wasn't fully privy to all of the details of GTAT's financial status separate from the $139 million it was expecting but ultimately did not receive from Apple. So it's consistent that Apple knew on the day before the filing that it wasn't going to hand over the final #139 million and was also surprised that the company filed; i.e., that the company, without that final payment was insolvent.
I agree that Apple was surely surprised. While it's true that Apple makes a lot of difficult and even onerous demands of their vendors, the one thing none of them are going to provide or allow is free access to the financials and numbers of the day to day operations. The only thing any company is going to give Apple is highly sanitized and polished statements. The only time a company would give anyone full access is when a takeover/purchase is happening. So yeah Apple was probably surprised. However, we know they had concerns, so on a scale of 1 to 10 the level of surprise might have only been a 5.
I agree that Apple was surely surprised. While it's true that Apple makes a lot of difficult and even onerous demands of their vendors, the one thing none of them are going to provide or allow is free access to the financials and numbers of the day to day operations. The only thing any company is going to give Apple is highly sanitized and polished statements. The only time a company would give anyone full access is when a takeover/purchase is happening. So yeah Apple was probably surprised. However, we know they had concerns, so on a scale of 1 to 10 the level of surprise might have only been a 5.
Agreed. Not a 'How could this be?' surprise. More like a 'Oh, snap!' surprise.
Somewhat ironically Apple tanked the company by withholding $139 million and it can now buy the entire company for that very amount -- A company worth $1.5 Billion 10 days ago.
Sometimes in life, you dump the crazy girlfriend instead of marrying her.
Right now, GT Advanced is the Amanda Bynes of high tech.
I agree that Apple was surely surprised. While it's true that Apple makes a lot of difficult and even onerous demands of their vendors, the one thing none of them are going to provide or allow is free access to the financials and numbers of the day to day operations. The only thing any company is going to give Apple is highly sanitized and polished statements. The only time a company would give anyone full access is when a takeover/purchase is happening. So yeah Apple was probably surprised. However, we know they had concerns, so on a scale of 1 to 10 the level of surprise might have only been a 5.
It makes sense. Though clearly out of their league and possibly incompetent (the stock sell offs making management look worse than incompetent), I cannot help but feel pity more than scorn. The moment they realized they could never deliver the goods they had signed off on life must have taken a seriously nasty turn for these folks. I don't think if it was my company I that had built from the ground up (not sure this applies to the CEO or not) and I had struck the mother load deal with the mighty Apple Inc only for said deal to become the mother of all nightmares, that I would have acted the way the management of GTA appears to have acted, but I am nonetheless very cognizant of the fact that a business owner is never further away from wreck and ruin than one bad decision. (usually followed by several more). My point being that I am sure the GTA management never set out to **** this up, on the contrary, and now that the deal has gone south I am somewhat empathetic. We might be critical and even gleeful but those guys must be having a bummer of a week.
It was rampant on those house flipping reality TV shows a few years back. The host would admonish the amateur house flipper who paid their building contractor the entire amount up front and found themselves waiting for them to show up on the first day of the project. Without fail. It's like a rule with contractors.
I think Apple had contingent payments and from the sound of it, Apple paid most of their commitment to GTAT, with only the final payment withheld. And they were willing to help GTAT.
Nice try. Congress will Investigate and expose all of Apple's tricks because they evaded US taxes legally via Bono's Ireland.
Apple has lots of enemies. Be aware.
Every now and then I click on a post titled "user is in your block list" just to see. Then I realize why I blocked the troll in the first place and how stupid their comments really are.
is that in the filings, or is that something ai dreamed up because ai is interested in it and wants the government to be interested in it, too?
Every now and then I click on a post titled "user is in your block list" just to see. Then I realize why I blocked the troll in the first place and how stupid their comments really are.
You're smarter than I, and less masochistic. I guess it's like a car accident, always have a morbid curiosity about the utter stupidity they will vomit out next.
The government aren't easily fooled, with GT exec's making confidence statements while simultaneously selling stock it will be GT's actions, not so much Apple's, which are going to be highly scrutinised. Overall this seems much larger than a contractual issue, some GT exec's could be up for criminal prosecution.
Sometimes in life, you dump the crazy girlfriend instead of marrying her.
Right now, GT Advanced is the Amanda Bynes of high tech.
Funny analogy, except Apple legal needs to bring the pain, not pay for a stint in rehab.
Where's sog 35? He hasn't posted on this thread yet. This ought to get him foaming at the mouth all over again.
GT signed the contract.
GT took money and probably pocketed most of it.
GT failed to meet their obligations.
GT took their investors money.
GT files for bankruptcy.
Some stinks to high heavens.
If Apple can prove that these guys received enough money and mismanaged the funds leading to their failure, the bankruptcy will be denied and GT will be forced to meet their obligations or give the moneys back.
Time will tell.
I don't think you understand who is likely to be accused of corruption here.
Also please give the Bono thing a rest. He has only good things to say about you and is upset that your mutual friendship has cooled. Also he doesn't run Ireland.
The contract they signed stipulated that GT didn't need to repay loans until Jan and the payments were interest free.
Somewhat ironically Apple tanked the company by withholding $139 million and it can now buy the entire company for that very amount -- A company worth $1.5 Billion 10 days ago.
I am not sure apple want them. What could have gone wrong in deal? Most likely is that they could not meet one or several of apples requirement - production costs, speed or quality - for Apple's "secret plans".
My bet is that Apple would be looking long and hard at graphene as a possible replacement for saphire before they consider snapping up this company.
Of course this is a wild guess as I do not know what Apple have planned, but graphene is a very interesting product that can be used to detect infrared, which opens up a world of possibilities in terms of health, imaging and motion detection.
Can't believe contractors take the money and don't show up for work.. I guess that's human nature at work. Someone needs to remind those people that they're stealing thousands of dollars. And if they're okay with that, why don't they just go rob somebody? What's the difference in the end? Go find an old lady walking down a back alley and take all her money.
What "tricks"? Do you understand the concept of NDAs, and confidentiality agreements in contracts? Or do you believe every detail of every business contract should be public knowledge? I'm assuming you meant to say "Beware"? It's ok, it's clear english isn't your first language (even though it is.) "Bono's Ireland"? Christ, you're pathetic.
He meant the so called "Double Irish" often in a form called a "Dutch Sandwich". Has nothing to do with GTAT and NDAs as you noted correctly.
It goes like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement in it's basic form.
A "Double Irish" is a legal way for companies to avoid income taxes in the EU or even export profit income tax free outside of the EU, usually with the goal of getting cash it into the US without paying any taxes at all.
And you can see from company filings who owns Double Irish setups (unless they are trying to reduce visibility of subsidiaries on purpose). It's a very widely used construct, especially popular among US companies for their EU business.
But not all are exporting profit tax free to off shore holdings. Some keep the money tax-freed in EU bank accounts as is usually better for PR as you can say "we do not have any off-shore holdings". Well, spin it as you want it's still bad.
This legal loop-hole will be closed soon. There is a lot of pressure inside the EU on Ireland for years. Ireland will close this loop-hole and instead will provide even lower company income taxes to have a fairer tax competition between EU countries based on taxation alone.
Pressure form the US also raised as part of dealing with off-shore holdings, as a Double Irish with a Dutch Sandwich over offshore subsidiaries allow money from the EU to get back into the US tax free as well (more involved on doing that once the money is there).
All larger companies use such a or a similar constructs. If not their accountants did a shitty job. As said totally legal and wanted by the Irish this way, so more large companies come to Ireland to do business. And they all came...