Have you considered not purchasing Apple products since, by doing so, you are apparently helping to perpetuate harm to your own economy? If Apple is playing such dirty game, why support them? Perhaps you should consider writing your government leaders and ask them to ban Apple from your country.
I don't want to ban Apple from the country, I just want them to pay more tax. Even if its not at the full rate, closer to the full rate. The government is well aware of the issue, as its not just Apple, its many other multinational companies. Thus pulling out my support from all companies who are doing this would be impossible.
There's the equivalent of sheep stealing going on. Country X in the EU gives corporations, wherever they are, a tax break for pretending all the European business its doing takes place there. Country X reaps a tax bonanza that's so great it can collect more at a 2% rather than other countries do at 15%.
We need a diversity of taxes because making any one kind of tax high distorts the economy. Until recently, I lived in Washington state, whose high sales tax meant people did their best to evade it. But when they evade, money flows out of the state rather than provide for services.
One of those diverse taxes needs to a tax on corporations. But when a company like Apple makes perhaps 95% of its income in other European countries but pays perhaps 95% of its taxes in Ireland, that sucks money out of some countries into others.
Europe (and the U.S.) needs to come up with a way to tax income only in the country where it is earned and no where else. That'd return the money people in a country are paying for goods and services to that country.
The US does not need the income tax, which is punitive to lower and middle income earners.
Instead the US needs to de-politicize taxation: www.FairTax.org
I don't want to ban Apple from the country, I just want them to pay more tax. Even if its not at the full rate, closer to the full rate. The government is well aware of the issue, as its not just Apple, its many other multinational companies. Thus pulling out my support from all companies who are doing this would be impossible.
You either leave the rates as they are and enjoy the wide-ranging employment benefits they've briught to Ireland, or you say goodbye to the only functioning part of the Irish economy to placate the complainers in the EU, which will result in no benefit for the Irish people.
Basing your economic strategy solely on being the country with the lowest business taxes is a losing strategy. It's a race to the bottom that will only attract parasitic companies.
<span style="line-height:1.4em;">Having said that, Ireland has more going for it than just a low tax rate. It has an abundance of well-educated native English speakers.</span>
Every country should have the lowest possible taxes. I've yet to see one goddamn argument that justifies large government and no, there's no such thing as "free" health care. Nothing is free.
Every country should have the lowest possible taxes. I've yet to see one goddamn argument that justifies large government and no, there's no such thing as "free" health care. Nothing is free.
Socialised health care is more efficient. Nothing is free but some things are cheaper than others.
Socialised health care is more efficient. Nothing is free but some things are cheaper than others.
"More efficient"? In what way? Canadians come to the US to have procedures done right away rather than wait...and wait...and wait.
Americans now on Obamacare (so-called) have every procedure in the book performed because there is no negative feedback loop controlling their decisions, tying up resources on unnecessary and expensive procedures.
We could argue in circles over this issue for the next ten years.
Country shopping by corporations may have a limited future. I feel it will be the subject of g20 and Ireland's move is probably a precursor to a big harmonisation effort.
If tax legislation can simply look through an organisations company structure and characterise an arrangement as those of a single company then the issue of tax becomes harder to dodge.
Btw, I believe in socialised medicine because health is such an inelastic commodity that it makes nonsense to leave it to the market. Pay or die doesn't work for any other market.
Country shopping by corporations may have a limited future. I feel it will be the subject of g20 and Ireland's move is probably a precursor to a big harmonisation effort.
If tax legislation can simply look through an organisations company structure and characterise an arrangement as those of a single company then the issue of tax becomes harder to dodge.
Btw, I believe in socialised medicine because health is such an inelastic commodity that it makes nonsense to leave it to the market. Pay or die doesn't work for any other market.
"Pay or die" isn't the only option. The top killer (heart disease) is avoidable if exercise and food choices made by individuals are even mildly intelligent. Lung cancers are largely avoidable by stopping smoking...
Socialized medicine results in distortions in the health care market and creates bottlenecks that 'more and bigger' government cannot solve. Intrusions into markets in the form of regulation prevents true costs and risks from being factored into pricing and to the response of businesses to those real needs of customers/patients.
With regard to the developing Ebola issue in the US, we've already seen clearly demonstrated that the CDC and government workers are spreading this disease on their own by allowing the improper movement of already infected people and workers who have come into contact with those contaminated. Why should anyone trust the word or the competency of the government at this point?
They are following the law but its the dodgiest way of doing it.
No, there is no such thing as “dodgily” following the law.
If they’re not going to pay proper company tax…
They are paying proper taxes. Stop lying.
Originally Posted by oldmacs
…I just want them to pay more tax.
Then that’s one vote. Not that big a deal.
Originally Posted by RichL
Socialised health care is more efficient.
lol.
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
…choices made by individuals are even mildly intelligent.
Here’s the problem: freedom requires responsibility and we’ve bred a generation or two of people who have been explicitly told by those in charge that they don’t need to have responsibility for their actions.
"Pay or die" isn't the only option. The top killer (heart disease) is avoidable if exercise and food choices made by individuals are even mildly intelligent. Lung cancers are largely avoidable by stopping smoking...
Socialized medicine results in distortions in the health care market and creates bottlenecks that 'more and bigger' government cannot solve. Intrusions into markets in the form of regulation prevents true costs and risks from being factored into pricing and to the response of businesses to those real needs of customers/patients.
With regard to the developing Ebola issue in the US, we've already seen clearly demonstrated that the CDC and government workers are spreading this disease on their own by allowing the improper movement of already infected people and workers who have come into contact with those contaminated. Why should anyone trust the word or the competency of the government at this point?
Blah blah blah. I can't really comment about the minutae of the health care market but commercialising it clearly hasn't brought the benefits on the whole that your reply implies. Per capita the US spend more on health care than pretty much any other nation yet life expectancies are lower than than those of other "advanced" nations.
No, there is no such thing as “dodgily” following the law.
They are paying proper taxes. Stop lying.
Then that’s one vote. Not that big a deal.
lol.
Here’s the problem: freedom requires responsibility and we’ve bred a generation or two of people who have been explicitly told by those in charge that they don’t need to have responsibility for their actions.
Don'y call me a liar as no they are not paying the taxes they should be paying on what they are earning. If they're selling goods here, the profit should be taxed under Australian tax, not shifted off to Ireland. Its part of doing business in Australia, small businesses have to pay tax, why shouldn't Apple.
…no they are not paying the taxes they should be paying…
They are paying exactly the amount of taxes they should be paying on what they are earning.
Who are you to say how much money they should pay, and why? How much of that for which they have worked do you think that you deserve and why? I have never understood why it is “greed” to want to keep the money you’ve earned and not greed to want to take someone else’s.
They are paying exactly the amount of taxes they should be paying on what they are earning.
Who are you to say how much money they should pay, and why? How much of that for which they have worked do you think that you deserve and why? I have never understood why it is “greed” to want to keep the money you’ve earned and not greed to want to take someone else’s.
I am not bloody lying. Stop being an absolute fanboi.
They are not, they are paying well below the company tax rate here, because they send their profits to Ireland.
In Australia Business gets taxed for the privilege of being allowed to conduct business, so the full earnings of every company should be taxed, its the only fair way. Just like I pay my full taxes. Its greed to disrespect the rules and find ways around things that other companies don't. The Australian government taxes companies for very good reasons, and it currently has revenue problems which are leading to deep cuts that are hurting Australians and this is due in part to Apple and other companies engaging in shifty exercises to avoid the tax rate that everyone else pays.
This is not about me deciding Apple needs to have its revenues taken, its Apple conforming to what happens in Australia. It wants to make money here? then it should get taxed all the income it makes here on the same terms that every other company gets taxed.
...The Australian government taxes companies for very good reasons, and it currently has revenue problems which are leading to deep cuts that are hurting Australians...
Prove that Apple is illegally not paying taxes they are required to pay, then.
Is this or is this not legal?
I'm not saying they are outside the law, thats why its called a loophole- a way for Apple to escape from what it is required to do here without being illegal. Its a big finger up to the Australians who are also often overcharged for their products. My argument is that its not the right thing to do. If you do business in Australia you are supposed to have your profits made here taxed, as we are a country where that is what happens, so either suck it up or don't do business here.
There are a whole not of things that are not illegal but yet are wrong. I may as well be a bully to everyone. Its not illegal so it must be the correct thing to do.
Comments
Have you considered not purchasing Apple products since, by doing so, you are apparently helping to perpetuate harm to your own economy? If Apple is playing such dirty game, why support them? Perhaps you should consider writing your government leaders and ask them to ban Apple from your country.
I don't want to ban Apple from the country, I just want them to pay more tax. Even if its not at the full rate, closer to the full rate. The government is well aware of the issue, as its not just Apple, its many other multinational companies. Thus pulling out my support from all companies who are doing this would be impossible.
The US does not need the income tax, which is punitive to lower and middle income earners.
Instead the US needs to de-politicize taxation: www.FairTax.org
You either leave the rates as they are and enjoy the wide-ranging employment benefits they've briught to Ireland, or you say goodbye to the only functioning part of the Irish economy to placate the complainers in the EU, which will result in no benefit for the Irish people.
Every country should have the lowest possible taxes. I've yet to see one goddamn argument that justifies large government and no, there's no such thing as "free" health care. Nothing is free.
Wanting to keep your own money is greedy but someone shoving their hand in your pocket is righteous?
????????
Every country should have the lowest possible taxes. I've yet to see one goddamn argument that justifies large government and no, there's no such thing as "free" health care. Nothing is free.
Socialised health care is more efficient. Nothing is free but some things are cheaper than others.
"More efficient"? In what way? Canadians come to the US to have procedures done right away rather than wait...and wait...and wait.
Americans now on Obamacare (so-called) have every procedure in the book performed because there is no negative feedback loop controlling their decisions, tying up resources on unnecessary and expensive procedures.
We could argue in circles over this issue for the next ten years.
If tax legislation can simply look through an organisations company structure and characterise an arrangement as those of a single company then the issue of tax becomes harder to dodge.
Btw, I believe in socialised medicine because health is such an inelastic commodity that it makes nonsense to leave it to the market. Pay or die doesn't work for any other market.
Country shopping by corporations may have a limited future. I feel it will be the subject of g20 and Ireland's move is probably a precursor to a big harmonisation effort.
If tax legislation can simply look through an organisations company structure and characterise an arrangement as those of a single company then the issue of tax becomes harder to dodge.
Btw, I believe in socialised medicine because health is such an inelastic commodity that it makes nonsense to leave it to the market. Pay or die doesn't work for any other market.
"Pay or die" isn't the only option. The top killer (heart disease) is avoidable if exercise and food choices made by individuals are even mildly intelligent. Lung cancers are largely avoidable by stopping smoking...
Socialized medicine results in distortions in the health care market and creates bottlenecks that 'more and bigger' government cannot solve. Intrusions into markets in the form of regulation prevents true costs and risks from being factored into pricing and to the response of businesses to those real needs of customers/patients.
With regard to the developing Ebola issue in the US, we've already seen clearly demonstrated that the CDC and government workers are spreading this disease on their own by allowing the improper movement of already infected people and workers who have come into contact with those contaminated. Why should anyone trust the word or the competency of the government at this point?
No, there is no such thing as “dodgily” following the law.
They are paying proper taxes. Stop lying.
Then that’s one vote. Not that big a deal.
Socialised health care is more efficient.
lol.
Here’s the problem: freedom requires responsibility and we’ve bred a generation or two of people who have been explicitly told by those in charge that they don’t need to have responsibility for their actions.
Blah blah blah. I can't really comment about the minutae of the health care market but commercialising it clearly hasn't brought the benefits on the whole that your reply implies. Per capita the US spend more on health care than pretty much any other nation yet life expectancies are lower than than those of other "advanced" nations.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_systems_by_country
As to trusting government - private companies are hardly a paragon of virtue. There was a massive oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. Remember that?
No, there is no such thing as “dodgily” following the law.
They are paying proper taxes. Stop lying.
Then that’s one vote. Not that big a deal.
lol.
Here’s the problem: freedom requires responsibility and we’ve bred a generation or two of people who have been explicitly told by those in charge that they don’t need to have responsibility for their actions.
Don'y call me a liar as no they are not paying the taxes they should be paying on what they are earning. If they're selling goods here, the profit should be taxed under Australian tax, not shifted off to Ireland. Its part of doing business in Australia, small businesses have to pay tax, why shouldn't Apple.
You are lying. Therefore you are a liar.
They are paying exactly the amount of taxes they should be paying on what they are earning.
Who are you to say how much money they should pay, and why? How much of that for which they have worked do you think that you deserve and why? I have never understood why it is “greed” to want to keep the money you’ve earned and not greed to want to take someone else’s.
You are lying. Therefore you are a liar.
They are paying exactly the amount of taxes they should be paying on what they are earning.
Who are you to say how much money they should pay, and why? How much of that for which they have worked do you think that you deserve and why? I have never understood why it is “greed” to want to keep the money you’ve earned and not greed to want to take someone else’s.
I am not bloody lying. Stop being an absolute fanboi.
They are not, they are paying well below the company tax rate here, because they send their profits to Ireland.
In Australia Business gets taxed for the privilege of being allowed to conduct business, so the full earnings of every company should be taxed, its the only fair way. Just like I pay my full taxes. Its greed to disrespect the rules and find ways around things that other companies don't. The Australian government taxes companies for very good reasons, and it currently has revenue problems which are leading to deep cuts that are hurting Australians and this is due in part to Apple and other companies engaging in shifty exercises to avoid the tax rate that everyone else pays.
This is not about me deciding Apple needs to have its revenues taken, its Apple conforming to what happens in Australia. It wants to make money here? then it should get taxed all the income it makes here on the same terms that every other company gets taxed.
LOL!
LOL!
that and the fact its a terrible government, but the fact remains.
Prove that Apple is illegally not paying taxes they are required to pay, then.
They are not, they are paying well below the company tax rate here, because they send their profits to Ireland.
Is this or is this not legal?
Prove that Apple is illegally not paying taxes they are required to pay, then.
Is this or is this not legal?
I'm not saying they are outside the law, thats why its called a loophole- a way for Apple to escape from what it is required to do here without being illegal. Its a big finger up to the Australians who are also often overcharged for their products. My argument is that its not the right thing to do. If you do business in Australia you are supposed to have your profits made here taxed, as we are a country where that is what happens, so either suck it up or don't do business here.
There are a whole not of things that are not illegal but yet are wrong. I may as well be a bully to everyone. Its not illegal so it must be the correct thing to do.
Okay, then there’s no discussion here at all. It’s black or white.
Your point is what, exactly? In no way are they escaping what is required, as they are not outside the law, as per your own admission.
No, try again. If you care so much, why not get rid of the loophole?
It’s the right thing to do from every point of view that matters.