First look: Eyes-on with the new iMac's super-resolution 5K Retina display

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  • Reply 41 of 91
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,415member

    Does anyone know if these are in the store yet on display? Calling your local Apple Store will get you no where because it goes to a call center and they don't have a clue. 

  • Reply 42 of 91
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,352member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frankie View Post



    Wheres the screen without the mac for MacPros?!

    It's the double identity of the iMac.












     
  • Reply 43 of 91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frankie View Post



    Wheres the screen without the mac for MacPros?!



    I was saving money to buy a really nice monitor for my new MacPro, I targeted for a price somewhere below 3000$.

    Now Apple brings on this beauty for just 2,5K and they ship a computer along for free.

    There is nothing, really nothing to complain here.

  • Reply 44 of 91
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,830moderator
    palegolas wrote: »
    frankie wrote: »
    Wheres the screen without the mac for MacPros?!
    It's the double identity of the iMac.
    <table style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin:0px auto;table-layout:fixed;width:980px;"><tbody>[TR]
    <td colspan="5" style="border-left-style:none;border-top-color:rgb(227,227,227);border-top-style:solid;border-top-width:1px;min-width:126px;padding:1em .66em 0px 0px;vertical-align:top;">
    <div>
    <ul style="margin-left:0px;"><li style="list-style:none;margin-bottom:1em;padding-top:0px;">"Support for Target Display Mode via the Thunderbolt port using a Thunderbolt to Thunderbolt cable (sold separately)"
    http://www.apple.com/imac/specs/</li>

    </ul>
    </div>
    </td>

    [/TR]
    [TR]
    <th style="border:none;font-style:normal;padding:0px;width:12.8516em;"> </th>

    [/TR]
    </tbody></table>

    Anandtech asked Apple about that and it seems they've blocked that ability:

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/8623/hands-on-apples-imac-with-retina-display

    "And for anyone wondering whether you can drive the 5K display as an external display using Target Display Mode, Apple has confirmed that you cannot."

    It's missing from the Retina model spec page:

    http://www.apple.com/imac-with-retina/specs/

    They had to make a custom timing controller to get enough bandwidth. Anand suggests it's the same 5K panel as the Dell but the Dell was rumored to use two tiles and the iMac uses one.

    It would have been easier if they'd just used 4K and I doubt anyone would tell the difference on a 27". I also think they could have split the data across multiple refresh cycles because the whole display doesn't get changed every time and added some compression.

    Still, these things always work themselves out over time. Once you're at Retina quality then you don't really have to go further. Once the external IO catches up, I'm sure they'll add the functionality back in later revisions. Displayport 1.3 should allow a MP to drive a 5K TB display but it may only do it via pass-through so no data on top. They could perhaps add a second TB port for data.
  • Reply 45 of 91
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,352member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    Anandtech asked Apple about that and it seems they've blocked that ability:



    http://www.anandtech.com/show/8623/hands-on-apples-imac-with-retina-display



    "And for anyone wondering whether you can drive the 5K display as an external display using Target Display Mode, Apple has confirmed that you cannot."



    It's missing from the Retina model spec page:



    http://www.apple.com/imac-with-retina/specs/



    They had to make a custom timing controller to get enough bandwidth. Anand suggests it's the same 5K panel as the Dell but the Dell was rumored to use two tiles and the iMac uses one.



    It would have been easier if they'd just used 4K and I doubt anyone would tell the difference on a 27". I also think they could have split the data across multiple refresh cycles because the whole display doesn't get changed every time and added some compression.



    Still, these things always work themselves out over time. Once you're at Retina quality then you don't really have to go further. Once the external IO catches up, I'm sure they'll add the functionality back in later revisions. Displayport 1.3 should allow a MP to drive a 5K TB display but it may only do it via pass-through so no data on top. They could perhaps add a second TB port for data.



    Thanks. Yeah, it sure is an awful ammunt of bits to be shoved through the cable.

    The bandwidth of Thunderbolt 2 is 20 Gbps, right? And the bandwidth of 5k in 60fps is... probably jsut about exceeding that. But let's say it supports 4k in target mode? It says on the specs page that it does support target mode, so I guess it will.. just not at 5k. 4k in 60fps, I read here, is about 17.2 Gbps. So that's not too friggin shabby. Let's wait things out.

     

    Update. Oh.. I just noticed the Retina and the non retina had different specs pages, and I was looking at the wrong one. You're right. Target display mode is not mentioned on the Retina specs page. Bummer!

    http://www.apple.com/imac-with-retina/specs/

    http://www.apple.com/imac/specs/

    Don't understand how I could have copied one link, and watched another. Ha ha.

  • Reply 46 of 91
    sog35 wrote: »
    kinda want Apple to release a wireless keyboard with number pad.

    I know only 1% of users want that but kinda sucks for me.

    Me too.
  • Reply 47 of 91
    mj webmj web Posts: 918member

    I use lots of Photoshop filters. I question whether the i7 and/or the graphic card upgrades @ $250 a pop are worth the incremental performance boost? I plan on ordering 16GB RAM with 3TB Fusion which kicks it up to $2849. I'll have to wait for the Geekbench numbers to see if another $500 on top of that is justified.

  • Reply 48 of 91
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,603member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DewMe View Post



    Yeah, wondering why the long overdue replacement for the aging and questionable value Thunderbolt Display was not part of the announcement. I imagine they are struggling to figure out how to fit it into the portfolio. They could easily justify selling it for $1500-$2000 a pop. If I'm a MacPro owner I'd be feeling a bit left out of the party right now. Not sure if the current MacPro video can support multiple 5K monitors so maybe they're waiting for the next MacPro refresh to bring the TB2 5K monitors to market. That would be my guess.

    I think this article explains it reasonably well;

     

    http://www.marco.org/2014/10/16/retina-imac-vs-mac-pro

     

    "Waiting for an external Apple 5K display for Mac Pros or other Macs?

     

    If I had to guess, you’ll have a long wait, and they won’t work with any Mac sold to date.

     

    Panel yields may be tight for a while, and external displays are a low priority for Apple. The original 27” iMac’s groundbreaking LCD panel wasn’t available in an external display from Apple for almost a year after its release. But that’s not the biggest problem.

     

    Pushing this many pixels requires more bandwidth than DisplayPort 1.2 offers, which is what Thunderbolt 2 ports use for outputting video signals. (Iwrote about this a few times.) Doing it right will require waiting until DisplayPort 1.3 in Thunderbolt 3 on Broadwell’s successor, Skylake, which isn’t supposed to come out for at least another year — and Intel is even worse at estimating ship dates than I am, so it’s likely to be longer.

     

    It may be possible to use two DisplayPort 1.2 or Thunderbolt 2 cables to power a 5K display, but only if the GPU could treat each port as its own full-bandwidth DisplayPort 1.2 channel, the sum of which represented one logical display, and had the panel combine and properly sync the two at the other end. I don’t think any of the current Macs can do this, including the Mac Pro — MST to run 4K panels at 60 Hz only seems to be supported within individual ports, not spanned across two.

     

    I’d estimate — granted, I’m wrong a lot — that Apple won’t ship a standalone 5K display until at least 2016, and it won’t work with any of today’s Macs, including the 2013 Mac Pro."

  • Reply 49 of 91
    Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

    The millions of blu-ray owners that also own Macs. :rolleyes: 

     

    Who said anything about Blu-ray?

  • Reply 50 of 91
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    Who said anything about Blu-ray?




    Once a bag of hurt, always a bag of hurt.

  • Reply 51 of 91
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member

    I'm an iMac fan. The only reason I'm currently using a Macbook Pro is because it has a Retina display and the iMac didn't. Well, now I can go back to my favourite Mac. I'm super happy that Apple pushed the envelope and went 5k instead of 4k. It's pushing technological limits that really makes a company valuable (if they're not doing that they can be too easily copied).

  • Reply 52 of 91
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frankie View Post



    Wheres the screen without the mac for MacPros?!

    A single TB2 port can not handle 5K but yeah, they probably could have done a 4K monitor for the Mac Pro. It seems like they invested in a lot of tech to make the new iMac screen so a bit surprising that they wouldn't want to put that in an external screen also.

     

    On the other hand the Mac Pro has a lot of TB2 ports, and 2 together could power an external 5K, still leaving 4 ports free.

  • Reply 53 of 91
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,352member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ascii View Post

     

    A single TB2 port can not handle 5K but yeah, they probably could have done a 4K monitor for the Mac Pro. It seems like they invested in a lot of tech to make the new iMac screen so a bit surprising that they wouldn't want to put that in an external screen also.

     

    On the other hand the Mac Pro has a lot of TB2 ports, and 2 together could power an external 5K, still leaving 4 ports free.




    Perhaps they're looking into making a lossless compressed 5k signal.. like an "Apple Lossless" for 5k. But like you say, for a Mac Pro, pairing two (out of six) ThunderBolt 2 ports could be totally acceptible. Still got four to go. However.. it's Apple. They will probably not talk about 5k stand alone displays until a new Thunderbolt 3 Mac Pro comes out in 2015. ;-)

  • Reply 54 of 91
    Very nice display! Another slap in the face to those who stepped forward and bought the new MacPro. Come on Apple. How hard would it be to have launched a 5K Monitor to use with MacPro. Help us to understand. Do you still expect us to go to another vendor to buy a monitor. Thank God I have waited and didn't buy a $4,000 4K monitor. I would really be upset.
  • Reply 55 of 91
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

     



    Perhaps they're looking into making a lossless compressed 5k signal.. like an "Apple Lossless" for 5k. But like you say, for a Mac Pro, pairing two (out of six) ThunderBolt 2 ports could be totally acceptible. Still got four to go. However.. it's Apple. They will probably not talk about 5k stand alone displays until a new Thunderbolt 3 Mac Pro comes out in 2015. ;-)


    Yep, waiting until TB3 seems the most likely outcome. I remember at the Mac Pro introduction, Phil Schiller specifically said "There are a range of great third party 4K monitors you can use with it." People probably assumed that it was temporary, but in retrospect he may have been talking about the life of the machine. 

     

    The trouble with the compression option (even lossless) is that by the pigeon hole principle there must be some frames that come out of the compression algorithm larger than they went in. So in that case you would just send it uncompressed, but since the wire can't handle too many of those in a row, you could get occassional frame drops.

  • Reply 56 of 91
    Originally Posted by spineman View Post

    How hard would it be to have launched a 5K Monitor to use with MacPro.



    Physically impossible. They literally cannot produce one right now. Be patient. You waited for the Mac Pro; you’re used to it.

  • Reply 57 of 91
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    Provided it works, which it probably won’t.

    Seems won't, too bad.
  • Reply 58 of 91
    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

    Seems won't, too bad.

     

    No manual yet, just the QSG.

     

    Wonder why they picked third party applications to show in the images.

  • Reply 59 of 91
    alexmitalexmit Posts: 112member
    I have not checked the specs, but the Mac pro might be the only machine in the mac lineup capable of handling a 5k thunderbolt display. Again, I could be wrong since I have not done the full research.
  • Reply 60 of 91
    Originally Posted by Alexmit View Post

    I have not checked the specs, but the Mac pro might be the only machine in the mac lineup capable of handling a 5k thunderbolt display. Again, I could be wrong since I have not done the full research.



    None are. Thunderbolt 2 apparently can't push it.

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