Apple insider needs to do more research before they make an article that is being used to fan the fanboy fire. While I am sure these companies want to collect more information, that is not the complete story. There is also the little things of credit card fees that these merchants don't want to pay anymore. You see, Apple Pay still is a credit card transaction which means merchants will stay have to pay those banking fees on each transaction. On the other hand CurrentC is a direct withdrawal from the banking account so there are no banking fees. Maybe if Apple wanted to pay all the merchant fees then the merchant will push their standard. As it currently stands Apple would be the only beneficiary of Apple pay since it would more than likely become a Monopoly while the merchants would have to eat the fees. Once CurrentC roles out, and if it works, I predict more retailers jumping ship so that they can saving hundreds if not millions in credit card transaction fees that are paid to the banks.
EDIT: Example, Target and their Red card. That's attached to your bank account and they give 5% off of the purchase when used. They give that cash back as a incentive for using the card because each of those transactions on that card helps target avoid the bank fee.
These retailers still accept non NFC credit cards. Also the cc fees are baked into the product prices. So cash customers are subsidizing credit card buyers.
My point is that everyone naturally tries to make things as seemless as possible. For instance we choose the type of credit cards we use or banks because of atm fees, or merchant acceptance. As an example, I used a bluebird card for about a year because I traveled alot, but when I settled in my now home town I got a local account because of the acceptance and seemless use. I didn't complain that I couldn't force my "at the time" method of payment on merchants, and it's a bit insane to change my lifestyle or ability to do busines based on this card. And it's just as absurd to have this mentality about your phone.
You are intentionally making your life moreo difficult for no reason other than to act out the exact stigma iPhone owners have.
lol. I'm always entertained when I read comments from people aiming to depict themselves as the voice-of-reason referee. I think it's safe to say that anyone with a brain is familiar with the concept of "competition". But this does not mean that it's impracticle for a person to be unhappy with the limitations that some kinds of competition impose. CurrentC exclusivity inhibits the features that people paid for when upgrading to Apple's latest hardware. That's the "brouhaha". The competition is Hurting the user experience that people hoped/expected to have with their new iphones.
I'm pleased to have entertained you. While most people understand competition, most people are also NIMBYs - not in my own back yard. Of course it's not impractical to be unhappy, in fact, if enough people are unhappy enough, and do something useful with their unhappiness and preferences, in practice this will have some effect. But I submit that CurrentC and the others are not only not interested in the features and qualities of Apple's hardware and whatever user-experience expectations iPhone buyers had, after having made substantial investments in their own products, they are only interested in increasing their market share and making profit, as are all others in this competetive battle, including Apple. As it happens, as an Apple shareholder, I'm also interested in my profits, so I, too, hope Apple wins and CurrentC loses. But that doesn't make CurrentC the bad guys, or me and Apple the good guys. It's just plain competition, which is not about love and hate, but about a better mousetrap.
These retailers still accept non NFC credit cards. Also the cc fees are baked into the product prices. So cash customers are subsidizing credit card buyers.
No they aren't. There is no incentive for a business to charge less than the market will allow a business to charge for a product. That 2-3% in CC fees is insurance in the case of fraud or a data breach. The 2-3% saved on CC fees will pay for bonuses and protect the business from any liability in the event they make a mistake and your personal information gets stolen and used for nefarious purposes.
The discussion was about retailers profiling, collecting either anonymized or in some cases highly specific personal information collected during store visits. That seemed to be the objection you yourself had to CVS and Rite-aides competing payments plan. ApplePay does not prevent retailers like Walgreen's from mining "you". In fact those that buy-in to the whole Apple package may get much better insights into your personal shopping behavior than is currently possible with Google and their Wallet app.
.
. How exactly can a retailer track my purchase if I use Apple Pay . iBeacons is bluetooth and if my bluetooth is actually on and I go to settings and make sure that any tracking is off by going into settings> privacy> locations services. So please I find you statements untrue unless you can refute what I just explained
Not sharing your credit card number in no way prevents the retailer tracking you as a customer. You're confusing the two and assuming that one prevents the other.
Example: If you have a Walgreen's iOS app on your phone, or I believe any other iBeacon-compatible app that might use the same backend provider, then Walgreens has the capability of personalizing an offer or ad just for you as soon as you enter the store, follow you thru the aisles while noting wherever you stop and for how long to help determine interests, and find out for certain if that targeted ad resulted in a sale. Default iAds, default bluetooth, iBeacons, compatible apps that no longer need to be open to receive offers, and loyalty programs are all connected. Apple has really done a great job in thinking everything thru. ApplePay completes it.
iPhone users can turn off tracking on individual apps, settings > privacy>locations settings
so if user doesn't have app installed or turns tacking off everything is fine
retailers has capability yes, control no
Personally I turn bluetooth off at all times (which completely stops all iBeacons tracking, in case I inadvertantly forgot to turn off it by individual app) except when I'm at home because I have an app to contol my wireless Harmon Kardon speakers, not having bluetooth turned on while I'm out and about saves battery life too.
Turning blue tooth on and off is easy now I can swipe up from the bottom of the screen and hit the bluetooth icon (same with wifi,another battery drainer)
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/183054/cvs-joins-rite-aid-in-blocking-apple-pay-in-currentc-plan-to-collect-more-customer-data/400#post_2627783" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span><div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Gatorguy</strong> <a href="/t/183054/cvs-joins-rite-aid-in-blocking-apple-pay-in-currentc-plan-to-collect-more-customer-data/400#post_2627783"><img src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" class="inlineimg" alt="View Post"/></a><br/><br/><br />
The discussion was about retailers profiling, collecting either anonymized or in some cases highly specific personal information collected during store visits. That seemed to be the objection you yourself had to CVS and Rite-aides competing payments plan. ApplePay does not prevent retailers like Walgreen's from mining "you". In fact those that buy-in to the whole Apple package may get much better insights into your personal shopping behavior than is currently possible with Google and their Wallet app.<br />
<br />
.</div></div><p> </p>
. How exactly can a retailer track my purchase if I use Apple Pay . iBeacons is bluetooth and if my bluetooth is actually on and I go to settings and make sure that any tracking is off by going into settings> privacy> locations services. So please I find you statements untrue unless you can refute what I just explained
Wouldn't this consortium of companies who are blocking (in the way they are) payments in lieu of using their own system subject to the same rules and regulations that govern anti-trust?
Does anyone know of a direct link and/or email address where we can file a complaint with the FTC? I would love to see an investigation started on this matter... or atleast some "official" stance on the matter.
Wouldn't this consortium of companies who are blocking (in the way they are) payments in lieu of using their own system subject to the same rules and regulations that govern anti-trust?
Does anyone know of a direct link and/or email address where we can file a complaint with the FTC? I would love to see an investigation started on this matter... or atleast some "official" stance on the matter.
But does blocking NFC payments en masse qualify as an anti-trust violation? One can still use cash or credit card, so my guess is "no".
I'm pleased to have entertained you. While most people understand competition, most people are also NIMBYs - not in my own back yard. Of course it's not impractical to be unhappy, in fact, if enough people are unhappy enough, and do something useful with their unhappiness and preferences, in practice this will have some effect. But I submit that CurrentC and the others are not only not interested in the features and qualities of Apple's hardware and whatever user-experience expectations iPhone buyers had, after having made substantial investments in their own products, they are only interested in increasing their market share and making profit, as are all others in this competetive battle, including Apple. As it happens, as an Apple shareholder, I'm also interested in my profits, so I, too, hope Apple wins and CurrentC loses. But that doesn't make CurrentC the bad guys, or me and Apple the good guys. It's just plain competition, which is not about love and hate, but about a better mousetrap.
Nobody's disagreeing with you... Like I said, I think we're all good on the ins and outs of "competition". Comments like, "What's all the brouhaha?" are what I find ignorant. It is not unreasonable for people to express their disapproval over their NFC capabilities being rendered ineffective by competitive practices...
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/183054/cvs-joins-rite-aid-in-blocking-apple-pay-in-currentc-plan-to-collect-more-customer-data/400#post_2627676" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span><div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Gatorguy</strong> <a href="/t/183054/cvs-joins-rite-aid-in-blocking-apple-pay-in-currentc-plan-to-collect-more-customer-data/400#post_2627676"><img src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" class="inlineimg" alt="View Post"/></a><br/><br/><br />
Not sharing your credit card number in no way prevents the retailer tracking you as a customer. You're confusing the two and assuming that one prevents the other.<br />
<br />
Example: If you have a Walgreen's iOS app on your phone, or I believe any other iBeacon-compatible app that might use the same backend provider, then Walgreens has the capability of personalizing an offer or ad just for you as soon as you enter the store, follow you thru the aisles while noting wherever you stop and for how long to help determine interests, and find out for certain if that targeted ad resulted in a sale. Default iAds, default bluetooth, iBeacons, compatible apps that no longer need to be open to receive offers, and loyalty programs are all connected. Apple has really done a great job in thinking everything thru. ApplePay completes it.</div></div><p> </p>
iPhone users can turn off tracking on individual apps, settings > privacy>locations settings
so if user doesn't have app installed or turns tacking off everything is fine
retailers has capability yes, control no
Personally I turn bluetooth off at all times (which completely stops all iBeacons tracking, in case I inadvertantly forgot to turn off it by individual app) except when I'm at home because I have an app to contol my wireless Harmon Kardon speakers, not having bluetooth turned on while I'm out and about saves battery life too.
Turning blue tooth on and off is easy now I can swipe up from the bottom of the screen and hit the bluetooth icon (same with wifi,another battery drainer)
Have you noticed that Apple helpfully turns bluetooth back on with iOS updates, over-riding your settings if you've "inadvertently" turned it off? It's fairly clear that Apple wants bluetooth on, noting of course that most users don't change settings leaving them at whatever default Apple set to begin with.
I believe that you can't refuse paper money stamped by the United States of America, in America. I might be mistaken though.
Went to a coffee shop just yesterday that refuses $100.00 bills. I asked about it and they said they got burned once with a counterfeit bill. Don't how legal it is though, since its supposed to be legal tender for all transactions, public and private!
But does blocking NFC payments en masse qualify as an anti-trust violation? One can still use cash or credit card, so my guess is "no".
That is what I would like to know. It seems to me that at the most basic level, if the consortium holds a commanding control in the retail sector, or even a specific sector or retail... and they use that leverage to intentionally block a competitor, then yes they are in violation. But I am not a lawyer... so what do I know.
Have you noticed that Apple helpfully turns bluetooth back on with iOS updates, over-riding your settings if you've "inadvertently" turned it off? It's fairly clear that Apple wants bluetooth on, noting of course that most users don't change settings leaving them at whatever default Apple set to begin with.
I suspect you are a TROLL, you are indeed talking nonsense now, thats a reach even for you
I'm sorry but this is exactly why iPhone users get such a bad reputation. It's a phone, not your identity. You let this thing decide every decision in your life like it's the most important part of your life. It's a phone.
I have about 6 devices I use as phones, and I seem to pick up new ones about every 3 months. I use Skype, I have a skype phone number, so all my devices have cellular turned off. I even have a hotspot on my keychain for when I feel like using a mini tablet or a locked phone I bought on the cheap in airplane mode with wifi on, and yes even iPhones (there cheap when people don't pay there bill).
Point I'm trying to make is all the devices I won have benefits, and some days some of those benefits are more valuable than others. But despite my ability to literally take any device with me anytime I have never once thought to dictate my life, shopping habits, or anything around the device in my pocket. It's insane.
Android is easier to manage music on, so it's my music day device. iPad mini is great for games so it's my weekend phone. etc...
Are you Really arguing that it's "insane" to want to use all of the latest features on a product you've purchased?? We are at a tipping point in mobile payment solutions. A format war, so to speak. You can either choose to participate or you can sit idly by and wait for someone to win. It's one of the most logical decisions a person can make. Side with companies that support your interests, side against companies that don't. While You may enjoy using 6 different "phones", many of us prefer using 1. I know, crazy, right? lol. Similarly, some of us prefer the thought of using 1 payment method for all of our purchases. Double crazy!
Misplaced superiority is such a funny thing to me!! Personal preference is objective. Opinions not shared by you are not subsequently insane.
I believe that you can't refuse paper money stamped by the United States of America, in America. I might be mistaken though.
Went to a coffee shop just yesterday that refuses $100.00 bills. I asked about it and they said they got burned once with a counterfeit bill. Don't how legal it is though, since its supposed to be legal tender for all transactions, public and private!
It's perfectly legal.
edit: I think the confusion comes into play regarding a statement about settling debts, but remember a company has the right to refuse you business which would mean you're not indebted to them. So if, for example, you go into a coffee shop, they make you a latte and you want to pay with a $100 bill they can simply choose to not sell you that drink.
Comments
These retailers still accept non NFC credit cards. Also the cc fees are baked into the product prices. So cash customers are subsidizing credit card buyers.
You are intentionally making your life moreo difficult for no reason other than to act out the exact stigma iPhone owners have.
lol. I'm always entertained when I read comments from people aiming to depict themselves as the voice-of-reason referee. I think it's safe to say that anyone with a brain is familiar with the concept of "competition". But this does not mean that it's impracticle for a person to be unhappy with the limitations that some kinds of competition impose. CurrentC exclusivity inhibits the features that people paid for when upgrading to Apple's latest hardware. That's the "brouhaha". The competition is Hurting the user experience that people hoped/expected to have with their new iphones.
I'm pleased to have entertained you. While most people understand competition, most people are also NIMBYs - not in my own back yard. Of course it's not impractical to be unhappy, in fact, if enough people are unhappy enough, and do something useful with their unhappiness and preferences, in practice this will have some effect. But I submit that CurrentC and the others are not only not interested in the features and qualities of Apple's hardware and whatever user-experience expectations iPhone buyers had, after having made substantial investments in their own products, they are only interested in increasing their market share and making profit, as are all others in this competetive battle, including Apple. As it happens, as an Apple shareholder, I'm also interested in my profits, so I, too, hope Apple wins and CurrentC loses. But that doesn't make CurrentC the bad guys, or me and Apple the good guys. It's just plain competition, which is not about love and hate, but about a better mousetrap.
Deft. Between DED and Gruber it appears some reviews have been catalyzed.
These retailers still accept non NFC credit cards. Also the cc fees are baked into the product prices. So cash customers are subsidizing credit card buyers.
No they aren't. There is no incentive for a business to charge less than the market will allow a business to charge for a product. That 2-3% in CC fees is insurance in the case of fraud or a data breach. The 2-3% saved on CC fees will pay for bonuses and protect the business from any liability in the event they make a mistake and your personal information gets stolen and used for nefarious purposes.
The discussion was about retailers profiling, collecting either anonymized or in some cases highly specific personal information collected during store visits. That seemed to be the objection you yourself had to CVS and Rite-aides competing payments plan. ApplePay does not prevent retailers like Walgreen's from mining "you". In fact those that buy-in to the whole Apple package may get much better insights into your personal shopping behavior than is currently possible with Google and their Wallet app.
.
. How exactly can a retailer track my purchase if I use Apple Pay . iBeacons is bluetooth and if my bluetooth is actually on and I go to settings and make sure that any tracking is off by going into settings> privacy> locations services. So please I find you statements untrue unless you can refute what I just explainedapple should repeatedly deny approval of the 'cc' app to their store.
Not sharing your credit card number in no way prevents the retailer tracking you as a customer. You're confusing the two and assuming that one prevents the other.
Example: If you have a Walgreen's iOS app on your phone, or I believe any other iBeacon-compatible app that might use the same backend provider, then Walgreens has the capability of personalizing an offer or ad just for you as soon as you enter the store, follow you thru the aisles while noting wherever you stop and for how long to help determine interests, and find out for certain if that targeted ad resulted in a sale. Default iAds, default bluetooth, iBeacons, compatible apps that no longer need to be open to receive offers, and loyalty programs are all connected. Apple has really done a great job in thinking everything thru. ApplePay completes it.
iPhone users can turn off tracking on individual apps, settings > privacy>locations settingsso if user doesn't have app installed or turns tacking off everything is fine
retailers has capability yes, control no
Personally I turn bluetooth off at all times (which completely stops all iBeacons tracking, in case I inadvertantly forgot to turn off it by individual app) except when I'm at home because I have an app to contol my wireless Harmon Kardon speakers, not having bluetooth turned on while I'm out and about saves battery life too.
Turning blue tooth on and off is easy now I can swipe up from the bottom of the screen and hit the bluetooth icon (same with wifi,another battery drainer)
Verifone is now encouraging it's merchants to turn on NFC payments.
First Apple does this, a huge assist for retailers (and some data aggregators with retailer sharing agreements):
http://beekn.net/2014/03/apple-ios-7-1-launches-major-ibeacon-improvement/
And then follows up with this:
http://bankinnovation.net/2014/10/apple-pay-loyalty-due-to-start-within-the-year/
Wouldn't this consortium of companies who are blocking (in the way they are) payments in lieu of using their own system subject to the same rules and regulations that govern anti-trust?
Does anyone know of a direct link and/or email address where we can file a complaint with the FTC? I would love to see an investigation started on this matter... or atleast some "official" stance on the matter.
But does blocking NFC payments en masse qualify as an anti-trust violation? One can still use cash or credit card, so my guess is "no".
Nobody's disagreeing with you... Like I said, I think we're all good on the ins and outs of "competition". Comments like, "What's all the brouhaha?" are what I find ignorant. It is not unreasonable for people to express their disapproval over their NFC capabilities being rendered ineffective by competitive practices...
I believe that you can't refuse paper money stamped by the United States of America, in America. I might be mistaken though.
Went to a coffee shop just yesterday that refuses $100.00 bills. I asked about it and they said they got burned once with a counterfeit bill. Don't how legal it is though, since its supposed to be legal tender for all transactions, public and private!
But does blocking NFC payments en masse qualify as an anti-trust violation? One can still use cash or credit card, so my guess is "no".
That is what I would like to know. It seems to me that at the most basic level, if the consortium holds a commanding control in the retail sector, or even a specific sector or retail... and they use that leverage to intentionally block a competitor, then yes they are in violation. But I am not a lawyer... so what do I know.
Have you noticed that Apple helpfully turns bluetooth back on with iOS updates, over-riding your settings if you've "inadvertently" turned it off? It's fairly clear that Apple wants bluetooth on, noting of course that most users don't change settings leaving them at whatever default Apple set to begin with.
I suspect you are a TROLL, you are indeed talking nonsense now, thats a reach even for youAre you Really arguing that it's "insane" to want to use all of the latest features on a product you've purchased?? We are at a tipping point in mobile payment solutions. A format war, so to speak. You can either choose to participate or you can sit idly by and wait for someone to win. It's one of the most logical decisions a person can make. Side with companies that support your interests, side against companies that don't. While You may enjoy using 6 different "phones", many of us prefer using 1. I know, crazy, right? lol. Similarly, some of us prefer the thought of using 1 payment method for all of our purchases. Double crazy!
Misplaced superiority is such a funny thing to me!! Personal preference is objective. Opinions not shared by you are not subsequently insane.
It's perfectly legal.
edit: I think the confusion comes into play regarding a statement about settling debts, but remember a company has the right to refuse you business which would mean you're not indebted to them. So if, for example, you go into a coffee shop, they make you a latte and you want to pay with a $100 bill they can simply choose to not sell you that drink.