So if someone steals your phone you can't get home because you can't get into your car. Or they can take your phone and then use it to steal your car.
The same thing can happen with regular keys, but you can't disable keys remotely. And I'm pretty sure car makers would still supply some sort of fob that you can keep at home. (Or, if you're a "genius", put it in a hide-a-key under your right rear wheel well.)
I think this is a good idea. I do believe that there are some cars that allow you to do this with an app, though I'm not sure how it's done, as I don't have a car, and so haven't investigated it.
My dad just picked up a 2015 Dodge Challenger R/T and he can do this with his iPhone. If part of the uconnect access infotainment system a lot of Chrysler vehicles have in them now.
I think this is a good idea. I do believe that there are some cars that allow you to do this with an app, though I'm not sure how it's done, as I don't have a car, and so haven't investigated it.
The Tesla Model S has a fob that acts as a wireless key. You don't have to press a button to unlock the car, the doors automatically unlock as you get close. Likewise, you don't lock your car; you just walk away and the car locks itself when it detects the fob is getting distant.
The Model S fob has no key. You don't stick a key into an ignition switch. You just press a power/standby button. Again, the fob must be in close range.
There's a iOS for Tesla, but its primary function is not a key. It controls other functions. For example, you can heat the interior before you get to your car. Stuff like that. I assume the app gives the Tesla owner control in securing certain parts of the automobile, like locking the glove compartment, trunk, etc. for "valet mode."
An NFC or Bluetooth-equipped smartphone could act in a similar manner. Theoretically, you walk up to your car with your properly-paired smartphone (in a pocket, purse, whatever), open the door, press the power button, and drive away.
Lots of potential uses, though security has to be the position from the ground up.
@rob53 Given the maximum range of NFC (Near Field Communication) as determined by physics is around 4-8 inches, usage on door locks is reasonable but garage doors not so much.
The Garage Door is likely better to be triggered by WiFi, where the presence of both the car and the phone in the address table of the Apple Time Capsule/Airport would give it a "safe" reason to open the door. Most Garage Door's passive infrared sensors at the base of the door to prevent the door closing while something/someone is underneath it.
Another use would be outside the car itself, and simply waving the iphone over a panel near the garage door to open it without the car present. This is actually how existing keyfob multi-car garages work already in apartment/condos. Though if you're in a larger vehicle, the sensor may be awkward to reach. When in a small car, one typically has to get out of the car to reach it anyway.
I think this is a good idea. I do believe that there are some cars that allow you to do this with an app, though I'm not sure how it's done, as I don't have a car, and so haven't investigated it.
I think the Model S and the BMW i3 (or whatever it is) allow this.
There is an iPhone app for model S which allows the car to be unlocked and started, but it works through the internet connection, rather than NFC, and is not currently enabled to use TouchID.
I don't see that happening unless Apple gets with the car manufacturers to create something akin to ?Pay as I don't think they''ll be opening up their NFC any time soon. That said, I don't think NFC is a great solution due to the range required. BT with Touch ID seems like a much better fit for this technology, although that does mean the BT HW has to be receiving constantly in the car for this to work. Is that feasible?
I think this is a good idea. I do believe that there are some cars that allow you to do this with an app, though I'm not sure how it's done, as I don't have a car, and so haven't investigated it.
My dad just picked up a 2015 Dodge Challenger R/T and he can do this with his iPhone. If part of the uconnect access infotainment system a lot of Chrysler vehicles have in them now.
Don't you have to purchase cellular internet access from them so your vehicle can be a WiFi hotspot, and because of this the signal goes through the internet to the vehicle, not over WiFi locally?
In thinking of the ultimate goal of replacing the wallet (as well as other things we carry in our pockets), it's definitely awesome! Though I would hope there would be some fallback system as well?
For example, if locking keys in my car (or in this case the phone!), I can still use the keyless entry number pad to gain access. If your phone runs out of juice, that would be a bummer to be locked out of home/car. Other things come to mind where using a device would be difficult: it's pouring rain; it's in the middle of sub-zero weather and you have huge clunky gloves on, etc.
Sometimes we may find the mechanical devices to be a better fit for the task at hand.
As noted above, many cars have wireless key fobs that provide functionality similar to this today. My car (2007 Nissan Maxima) doesn't unlock automatically when I approach, but can be unlocked by a button on the door handle when the fob is in proximity, so there is no fishing for keys in pockets - really like it. Also has wireless start in proximity.
If we think about security though, it is very insecure, just physical access to the fob. Irrespective of the technology (Bluetooth or NFC), applications can make this more secure. I think it is a great use case for the Apple Watch. I believe Apple discussed an app for ?Watch with W hotels at the keynote, where the watch could unlock the door after you checked in online. They never said how that would be done, but likely one of those wireless methods above. Security with Apple Watch can be much better than the standard fob if we believe the concept that you type in a one-time PIN when you put on the watch at the start of the day, and it is then considered secure until you take it off. Now that is convenience...which we all know people pay for.
My garage door opener uses a random code generator that programs the remote by holding it right next to the opener (pain when it's up high). I can reprogram anytime I wish, including programming new remotes. My vision would be to use NFC to program an iPhone or any remote, then WiFi using TouchID to activate the door opener. This should provide adequate security and could use one-time code managed by the remote application keeping someone from sniffing the wireless activity. A combination of HomeKit, TouchID, NFC, and an app all working together. Would this work for you?
Fair enough. As you said NFC could be useful for pairing a phone to a garage door opener. An internet based relay for activating it would work, but WIFI is too week to be able to activate from 100+ ft through the door/wall. I personally at least can not join my wifi network at anywhere near the distance I typically start my door opening (it would not be open in time for me to pull in without pause). I see where you are envisioning.
The same thing can happen with regular keys, but you can't disable keys remotely. And I'm pretty sure car makers would still supply some sort of fob that you can keep at home. (Or, if you're a "genius", put it in a hide-a-key under your right rear wheel well.)
True - and I suppose if they know which car is yours then taking your keys vs your phone is about the same.
But if there is a way to spoof the ID then someone could just walk through a parking lot with a code scanner.
I have at times hidden keys on a car - in one case at the beach instead of leaving the car keys with our stuff on the beach it was hidden in the car.
Not that many people do - but it would be easier to lock up your car keys that your phone - and if you valet park you'd have to remember to have a key with you to avoid leaving your phone with the valet.
Lots of things to consider - some of which would be built into the tech and others would be adjustments to behavior.
I was just trying to think if there would be new methods of exploiting
My garage door opener uses a random code generator that programs the remote by holding it right next to the opener (pain when it's up high). I can reprogram anytime I wish, including programming new remotes. My vision would be to use NFC to program an iPhone or any remote, then WiFi using TouchID to activate the door opener. This should provide adequate security and could use one-time code managed by the remote application keeping someone from sniffing the wireless activity. A combination of HomeKit, TouchID, NFC, and an app all working together. Would this work for you?
Fair enough. As you said NFC could be useful for pairing a phone to a garage door opener.
An internet based relay for activating it would work, but WIFI is too week to be able to activate from 100+ ft through the door/wall. I personally at least can not join my wifi network at anywhere near the distance I typically start my door opening (it would not be open in time for me to pull in without pause).
I see where you are envisioning.
That's too convoluted. Sometimes simple is better.
Some cars have built-in programmable wireless transmitters for things like garage door openers. Mercedes-Benzes had them in the late Nineties, three programmable buttons in the rear view mirror.
Even my little Toyota has a small compartment in the roof, meant for a garage door remote (velcro the remote into, a button in the compartment door presses the remote button). Super low-tech, but works fine, just remember to change the battery occasionally.
Sure, conceivably there might be some sort of system to have a smartphone trigger a wireless transmitter mounted somewhere in the garage to activate the door opener, but that seems like needlessly over engineered expense for a simple and low-tech solution. Why fumble around with a smartphone app or tell Siri to "open garage door" when it is just as simple as pressing a button near my head?
Like mpantone mentions, I find the built in buttons on most vehicles to be more handy in most cases. If you are one of those people that always worries about if you forgot to close the door when you left, or if you need to be able to let people into your home for some reason while you are away I could see it being handy for that.
Presumably, this technology could also be used to remotely blow up a car.
Did you deliberately mean to put my mind into a corporate espionage thriller where the guy puts his keys into the ignition, the engine turns, and then BOOM?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64
So if someone steals your phone you can't get home because you can't get into your car. Or they can take your phone and then use it to steal your car.
Of course if you have a password/touch ID setup they wouldn't get very far.
I am not sure how al the NFC works but if there is a way to spoof the chip ID then it could be a big security risk - though with pairing and such there are likely multiple bits of data flowing between the devices. A case where the car recognizes a trusted device based on chip ID alone would not be very secure.
Yeah, this is actually my primary concern--this is one case where I feel like all the chickens in one basket is not such a good idea.
WTF? I'd never ever use a phone to unlock my car. Unlike RFID, NFC needs a working battery plus if they do it right (and I'd certainly hope so because otherwise there'd be a huge penalty with the insurances) it'll need Touch ID so unlike Keyless Go (and similar systems) you'll have to pull out your pocket to unlock the car. And then of course the same is valid for starting the car... battery of the phone dies unnoticed on a longer journey? You're shit out of luck...
I'll likely never buy a ride without Keyless Entry again because it's hell convenient to just keep your keys in the pocket all the time and not worry about *anything*, I don't even have to pull out my phone to *use* it while driving. When I could only unlock and start my car by pulling out a charged phone? Total dealbreaker.
Comments
So if someone steals your phone you can't get home because you can't get into your car. Or they can take your phone and then use it to steal your car.
The same thing can happen with regular keys, but you can't disable keys remotely. And I'm pretty sure car makers would still supply some sort of fob that you can keep at home. (Or, if you're a "genius", put it in a hide-a-key under your right rear wheel well.)
My dad just picked up a 2015 Dodge Challenger R/T and he can do this with his iPhone. If part of the uconnect access infotainment system a lot of Chrysler vehicles have in them now.
I think this is a good idea. I do believe that there are some cars that allow you to do this with an app, though I'm not sure how it's done, as I don't have a car, and so haven't investigated it.
The Tesla Model S has a fob that acts as a wireless key. You don't have to press a button to unlock the car, the doors automatically unlock as you get close. Likewise, you don't lock your car; you just walk away and the car locks itself when it detects the fob is getting distant.
The Model S fob has no key. You don't stick a key into an ignition switch. You just press a power/standby button. Again, the fob must be in close range.
There's a iOS for Tesla, but its primary function is not a key. It controls other functions. For example, you can heat the interior before you get to your car. Stuff like that. I assume the app gives the Tesla owner control in securing certain parts of the automobile, like locking the glove compartment, trunk, etc. for "valet mode."
An NFC or Bluetooth-equipped smartphone could act in a similar manner. Theoretically, you walk up to your car with your properly-paired smartphone (in a pocket, purse, whatever), open the door, press the power button, and drive away.
The Garage Door is likely better to be triggered by WiFi, where the presence of both the car and the phone in the address table of the Apple Time Capsule/Airport would give it a "safe" reason to open the door. Most Garage Door's passive infrared sensors at the base of the door to prevent the door closing while something/someone is underneath it.
Another use would be outside the car itself, and simply waving the iphone over a panel near the garage door to open it without the car present. This is actually how existing keyfob multi-car garages work already in apartment/condos. Though if you're in a larger vehicle, the sensor may be awkward to reach. When in a small car, one typically has to get out of the car to reach it anyway.
There is an iPhone app for model S which allows the car to be unlocked and started, but it works through the internet connection, rather than NFC, and is not currently enabled to use TouchID.
Don't you have to purchase cellular internet access from them so your vehicle can be a WiFi hotspot, and because of this the signal goes through the internet to the vehicle, not over WiFi locally?
I agree 10000000000000%....so much potential.
In thinking of the ultimate goal of replacing the wallet (as well as other things we carry in our pockets), it's definitely awesome! Though I would hope there would be some fallback system as well?
For example, if locking keys in my car (or in this case the phone!), I can still use the keyless entry number pad to gain access. If your phone runs out of juice, that would be a bummer to be locked out of home/car. Other things come to mind where using a device would be difficult: it's pouring rain; it's in the middle of sub-zero weather and you have huge clunky gloves on, etc.
Sometimes we may find the mechanical devices to be a better fit for the task at hand.
As noted above, many cars have wireless key fobs that provide functionality similar to this today. My car (2007 Nissan Maxima) doesn't unlock automatically when I approach, but can be unlocked by a button on the door handle when the fob is in proximity, so there is no fishing for keys in pockets - really like it. Also has wireless start in proximity.
If we think about security though, it is very insecure, just physical access to the fob. Irrespective of the technology (Bluetooth or NFC), applications can make this more secure. I think it is a great use case for the Apple Watch. I believe Apple discussed an app for ?Watch with W hotels at the keynote, where the watch could unlock the door after you checked in online. They never said how that would be done, but likely one of those wireless methods above. Security with Apple Watch can be much better than the standard fob if we believe the concept that you type in a one-time PIN when you put on the watch at the start of the day, and it is then considered secure until you take it off. Now that is convenience...which we all know people pay for.
My garage door opener uses a random code generator that programs the remote by holding it right next to the opener (pain when it's up high). I can reprogram anytime I wish, including programming new remotes. My vision would be to use NFC to program an iPhone or any remote, then WiFi using TouchID to activate the door opener. This should provide adequate security and could use one-time code managed by the remote application keeping someone from sniffing the wireless activity. A combination of HomeKit, TouchID, NFC, and an app all working together. Would this work for you?
Fair enough. As you said NFC could be useful for pairing a phone to a garage door opener.An internet based relay for activating it would work, but WIFI is too week to be able to activate from 100+ ft through the door/wall. I personally at least can not join my wifi network at anywhere near the distance I typically start my door opening (it would not be open in time for me to pull in without pause).
I see where you are envisioning.
The same thing can happen with regular keys, but you can't disable keys remotely. And I'm pretty sure car makers would still supply some sort of fob that you can keep at home. (Or, if you're a "genius", put it in a hide-a-key under your right rear wheel well.)
True - and I suppose if they know which car is yours then taking your keys vs your phone is about the same.
But if there is a way to spoof the ID then someone could just walk through a parking lot with a code scanner.
I have at times hidden keys on a car - in one case at the beach instead of leaving the car keys with our stuff on the beach it was hidden in the car.
Not that many people do - but it would be easier to lock up your car keys that your phone - and if you valet park you'd have to remember to have a key with you to avoid leaving your phone with the valet.
Lots of things to consider - some of which would be built into the tech and others would be adjustments to behavior.
I was just trying to think if there would be new methods of exploiting
My garage door opener uses a random code generator that programs the remote by holding it right next to the opener (pain when it's up high). I can reprogram anytime I wish, including programming new remotes. My vision would be to use NFC to program an iPhone or any remote, then WiFi using TouchID to activate the door opener. This should provide adequate security and could use one-time code managed by the remote application keeping someone from sniffing the wireless activity. A combination of HomeKit, TouchID, NFC, and an app all working together. Would this work for you?
Fair enough. As you said NFC could be useful for pairing a phone to a garage door opener.
An internet based relay for activating it would work, but WIFI is too week to be able to activate from 100+ ft through the door/wall. I personally at least can not join my wifi network at anywhere near the distance I typically start my door opening (it would not be open in time for me to pull in without pause).
I see where you are envisioning.
That's too convoluted. Sometimes simple is better.
Some cars have built-in programmable wireless transmitters for things like garage door openers. Mercedes-Benzes had them in the late Nineties, three programmable buttons in the rear view mirror.
Even my little Toyota has a small compartment in the roof, meant for a garage door remote (velcro the remote into, a button in the compartment door presses the remote button). Super low-tech, but works fine, just remember to change the battery occasionally.
Sure, conceivably there might be some sort of system to have a smartphone trigger a wireless transmitter mounted somewhere in the garage to activate the door opener, but that seems like needlessly over engineered expense for a simple and low-tech solution. Why fumble around with a smartphone app or tell Siri to "open garage door" when it is just as simple as pressing a button near my head?
The ability to control your garage door with your phone already exists.
http://www.chamberlain.com/smartphone-control-products/myq-garage
http://www.chamberlain.com/smartphone-control-products/smartphone-garage-door-openers
Like mpantone mentions, I find the built in buttons on most vehicles to be more handy in most cases. If you are one of those people that always worries about if you forgot to close the door when you left, or if you need to be able to let people into your home for some reason while you are away I could see it being handy for that.
Presumably, this technology could also be used to remotely blow up a car.
Presumably, this technology could also be used to remotely blow up a car.
Did you deliberately mean to put my mind into a corporate espionage thriller where the guy puts his keys into the ignition, the engine turns, and then BOOM?
So if someone steals your phone you can't get home because you can't get into your car. Or they can take your phone and then use it to steal your car.
Of course if you have a password/touch ID setup they wouldn't get very far.
I am not sure how al the NFC works but if there is a way to spoof the chip ID then it could be a big security risk - though with pairing and such there are likely multiple bits of data flowing between the devices. A case where the car recognizes a trusted device based on chip ID alone would not be very secure.
Yeah, this is actually my primary concern--this is one case where I feel like all the chickens in one basket is not such a good idea.
I'll likely never buy a ride without Keyless Entry again because it's hell convenient to just keep your keys in the pocket all the time and not worry about *anything*, I don't even have to pull out my phone to *use* it while driving. When I could only unlock and start my car by pulling out a charged phone? Total dealbreaker.